Election Meddling

SpaceNut · 2016-12-11 21:53:52

Many would say that no nation can do what they want and that is why the UN does go to many places to stop what is being done. Of course we have become the police force of the world it would seem along with a few other nations as that result of requests and other reasons.

Recounts against or for are not what is being asked as its a question of fraud, intervention, hacking and more that has people asking for it to happen. Why else would so many donate the huge amount of funds to someone that has no chance in changing the tally currently standing.

That is why Trump, CIA on collision course over Russia’s role in U.S. election as he was saying that its rigged...
Claims of Russian hack are an American issue: it is a very dangerous precedent being set for future elections. Intelligence Agencies Distressed by Trump's Rejection of Findings on Russia but then again Trump's response on Russia draws pushback from GOP senators and thats not the only problem as New push to replace Obamacare reignites old GOP tensions “I don’t want to leave the 84,000 people in Maine who are buying insurance on the exchange uninsured because, all of a sudden, two-thirds of them who have subsidies have lost that subsidy,” Collins said.

So the GOP is not happy and with that his GOP Opposition to Potential Trump Cabinet Nominees Grows and we have already talked about a few of these choices.....

With his statements of vetting Muslim he is stereotyping people and that is why with the hate crimes rising people asking for his intervention. Muslim NYPD officers request meeting with Trump after spike in hate crimes
By the way, 2 of my sons in seperate location not even a 1/4 mile appart were witness to anti trump hate crimes.. its pretty sad...

Here is another move as "During the campaign, Donald Trump pledged to protect Social Security from cutbacks. Will he keep his promise?" The GOP unveils a 'permanent save' for Social Security -- with massive benefit cuts not so good.... Sam Johnson, R-Tex., chairman of the Ways and Means Social Security subcommittee. Johnson on Thursday uncorked what he termed a "plan to permanently save Social Security."

For those that are nearing that magical age they are looking to have what was paid in available to live off from. So what are they going to do....

Finally, the measure also raises the full retirement age, which is now pegged to reach 67 by 2022, to 69 by 2030. this means that workers taking early retirement, which is permitted as soon as age 62, would face a steeper cut in annual benefits for starting early. Johnson would increase the age up to which delayed retirement credits may be earned to 72, from 70.

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Which means I can look forward to having less to live on.....

SpaceNut · 2016-12-12 19:43:13

The duplication is just as equal on both the federal level as in the state... That is like saying the congress/ senate version the state is not needed as it duplicates it.... I feel that both do have some overlapping but its up to both to work to reduce the burden and to work together for that common good but we know thats not the way that it will work....

Terrified by Trump: Activist groups stoke fears, raise funds on incoming administration

liberal activist groups have launched campaigns online and around the nation to help people cope – and even survive – their version of democratic doomsday. “If people are upset about the election, we encourage them to figure out how to get involved and work with that, from donating to petitions to protests.”
One effort that launched this week, called “WhatDoIDoAboutTrump.com,” is depicted by its organizers as a non-partisan “website [that] turns Trump angst into action – online and off.”
t provides links to websites of organizations, such as the American Civil Liberties Union, which advise people about what steps to take or what they may face if Donald Trump follows through on some of his promises. One link leads to “Welcome to the OH CRAP! WHAT NOW? SURVIVAL GUIDE,” which describes itself as “a crowdsourced collection of health, legal, and safety plans and resources + social, digital and economic security related resources urgent now as an outcome of the recent US election.”

GOP senators challenge Trump on secretary of state prospect's Russia ties

Gap on Russia hacking conclusions between intelligence, FBI

The disagreement between some Republicans and Democrats on Russia's intentions in hacking the election rests partially on the lack of agreement between intelligence agencies and the FBI about the conclusiveness of the evidence, officials explained this weekend.

Senate GOP Leader Says Congress Will Investigate Russia Election Interference

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell condemned foreign interference in the U.S. presidential election as "disturbing," saying congressional committees will investigate the allegations.

A Timeline of Russia's Hacking Into US Political Organizations Ahead of the Election

Here is the timeline of related events --
june 14 “Russian government hackers penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee and gained access to the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.”
June 15 Respected American cyber technology firm Crowdstrike releases a detailed statement about Russian hacking of the DNC.
July 22 WikiLeaks publishes the first in a series of hacked emails taken from the DNC.

read link for more:

Clinton Campaign Presses for Intelligence on Russian Hacking, Obama administration "owes it to the American people" to tell what it knows about Russian hacking of Clinton campaign emails and those of the Democratic National Committee as it attempted to sway last month's election.

Ten electors on Monday released an "open letter" to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper requesting information about ongoing investigations on ties between Trump and "Russian government interference in the election." One citiny a Federalist paper by Alexander Hamilton that says electors must determine that the president is qualified and independent from foreign influence. The letter says the Founding Fathers envisioned the Electoral College as a deliberative body and not simply a rubber stamp to ratify the results. "The Constitution envisions the Electoral College as a deliberative body that plays a critical role in our system of government — ensuring that the American people elect a president who is constitutionally qualified and fit to serve," the electors wrote.

Electors Call for Intelligence Briefing on Russian Hacking Allegations

"The administration owes it to the American people to explain what it knows regarding the extent and manner of Russia's interference and this be done as soon as possible," Podesta said in a statement. "The U.S. intelligence community has determined that Russia interfered in U.S. elections," Pelosi said. "There must be no equivocation or ignoring the seriousness of the intelligence community's conclusion about Russia's actions." CIA formally concluded the Russian government worked covertly not just to disrupt the election, but to help Trump win. Four powerful senators — two Democrats, two Republicans — released a statement calling for a joint probe into Russia's actions.
"We now know that the CIA has determined Russia's interference in our elections was for the purpose of electing Donald Trump.

McConnell Backs Senate Investigations of Russian Hacking

House Speaker Paul Ryan didn't explicitly call for hearings on the latest CIA assessment over Russian hacks. Instead he pointed to the work that the House Intelligence Committee has been doing for a year on cyber security.
"This important work will continue and has my support," Ryan wrote in a statement.

CIA Concludes Russia Mounted Operation to Help Trump Win: Source a congressional official knowledgeable

In an interview Saturday with MSNBC's Joy Reid, outgoing Democratic leader Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, who was among those briefed, accused FBI director James Comey of withholding information about the Russian campaign from the public. He said Comey should resign. "The FBI had this material for a long time. But he, Comey, who is Republican, refused to divulge this information regarding Russia in the presidential election." Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement Saturday that the "silence from WikiLeaks and others since election day has been deafening." He added that revelations that Russian hackers worked to help Trump's campaign were "simultaneously stunning and not surprising."

Latino Lawmakers: Congress Must Investigate Russia's Role in Election

Rep. Joaquín Castro, a Democratic member of the House Intelligence committee and House Foreign Affairs Committee, insisted that Congress must investigate Russian involvement in U.S. elections. "Reports of Russian interference in our nation's election to influence the outcome for one candidate are extremely distressing. Congress must investigate this breach and determine the full extent of Russian involvement. This kind of electoral interference undermines American democracy,"

SpaceNut · 2016-12-14 18:42:11

Again another not so perfect choice Flynn, Trump’s national security adviser, mishandled classified information, Army records show

railed during the campaign against Hillary Clinton for her reported mishandling of classified material as secretary of state. But according to U.S. Army records published Wednesday by the Washington Post, Flynn “inappropriately shared” classified information with foreign military officers in Afghanistan.

U.S. judge to review FBI's Clinton emails search warrant application

used to enable the FBI to access emails related to Hillary Clinton's private server that were discovered shortly before the Nov. 8 presidential election.
The search warrant was obtained after Comey issued a letter to top U.S. lawmakers disclosing that emails potentially related to the Clinton server probe had been discovered in an "unrelated case." Comey's Oct. 28 announcement roiled the campaign and drew new attention to a damaging issue for Clinton.

Obama rips ‘obsession’ over what was in hacked emails — and not who did the hacking.

no one should be shocked by the Central Intelligence Agency’s assessment that Russia interfered in the U.S. presidential election in an effort to help Donald Trump win the White House.I don’t think there was any doubt among anybody in the media or among members of Congress as to who was being advantaged or disadvantaged by the political gossip that was being put out in drip, drip, drip fashion up to the election.” In the weeks leading up to the November election, WikiLeaks published a series of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee, Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and others. CIA, officially concluded that Russia was behind the hack that officials characterized as an attempt to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system. On Friday, the Washington Post reported that the CIA says it is now “quite clear” that electing Trump was Russia’s goal.

So what is the magic number now? More GOP electors are open to dumping Trump, Electors Trust organizer says
So far one has resigned and just one Republican elector—Chris Suprun of Texas—has announced he won’t support Trump. Thirty-five more Republican electors must decide to follow Suprun’s lead between.

Plus more other Russian connected choices being added to cabinet everyday....

SpaceNut · 2016-12-17 16:26:52

The FBI finally says that the CIA was correct about Russian Hacking to sway election and now WikiLeaks offers to 'authenticate' US intelligence on Russia's involvement in election hacking

Confirmation from both the FBI and CIA that during the campaign the Russian government hacked the U.S and now the GOP electors are being targeted with $500K ad buy in final anti-Trump pushAs Hamilton Electors say That the "Federalist Papers, the Framers created the electors to be more than bean-counters, to exercise actual intelligence and discretion,” Clinton's team backs electors' demand for an intelligence briefing.

“In light of Russian interference in the 2016 election, Trump's refusal to release his taxes so we can assess foreign conflicts of interests, and the lack of an intelligence briefing prior to the Electoral College on December 19th, this election must be decided in the U.S. House of Representatives, as has happened twice in our nation's history,” said Baca.
“Every Presidential candidate and member of Congress should be coming forward to do everything they possibly can to prevent a Constitutional crisis,” he said, also mentioning the need for Hillary Clinton to participate by releasing her electors to vote as they please.

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-12-17 17:22:43

The election wasn't hacked, the ballots were counted.

RobertDyck · 2016-12-17 17:58:47

Detroit has more ballots cast than voters.

GW Johnson · 2016-12-17 19:35:06

I think the point is that (1) the Russians did not hack into voting machine vote counts, so what was counted was what was cast, with only the usual shenanigans that do not upset overall outcomes, and (2) the Russians did hack into various files and email accounts, looking for information about nefarious activities they could dribble out through WikiLeaks, hoping to sway which way voters would cast their ballots. Plus there is a huge false news effort instigated by the Russians. All of this is documented, and confirmed, no matter what Trump tweets.

To the extent that the Russians managed to sway voters to Trump with WikiLeaks info adverse to Democrats, and with the false news story plants, then the Russians did indeed sway the outcome of this election. That extent is as yet unknown, but in my book, this meddling is an act of war. Deserving of war in retribution. Combat, economic, cyber, some sort of war.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that the Russians also hacked the Republican party and several of its members. Release of adverse information on them is the extortion by which the Russians have the GOP-at-large discounting the effects of the Russian hack into this election process. I am utterly disappointed in the GOP for soft-pedalling such a grave threat from Putin's Russia. Extortion would explain why.

It'll take time to settle this, but things do not look good for either Trump, who is in hoc to the Russian mafia that supports Putin, or for the divided GOP as a whole. I smell borderline treason here, maybe not so borderline in some cases. The next 4 years (at least) portend vast chaos. More than Clinton would have brought, and that is saying something. And I did predict this over at my "exrocketman" site.

I didn't want either one of them. But I thought Clinton was very slightly the lesser of two very great evils. And I did not find the other two parties to be credible options.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2016-12-17 19:38:51)

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-12-17 20:13:13

GW Johnson wrote:

I think the point is that (1) the Russians did not hack into voting machine vote counts, so what was counted was what was cast, with only the usual shenanigans that do not upset overall outcomes, and (2) the Russians did hack into various files and email accounts, looking for information about nefarious activities they could dribble out through WikiLeaks, hoping to sway which way voters would cast their ballots. Plus there is a huge false news effort instigated by the Russians. All of this is documented, and confirmed, no matter what Trump tweets.

If the Russians were instigating false news, why would they hack into Democrat accounts? Also why should Putin care if Trump was President? Hillary was a phony Cold Warrior, she was just using the Russians as a scapegoat to avoid responsibility for losing the election. Besides Trump is not such a terrible person, did he do anything to you? You don't always get the President you want, neither do I, now its my turn, you had your 8 years of Obama. If the Russians didn't actually hack the vote, then they have the right to free speech just like anyone else does in this country, if they found some bad stuff on Clinton that happens to be true, then its Hillary's fault for having something to be found, that the Russians found it, if they found it is beside the point! The point is that it was there to be found! Hillary was getting rich from her government influence and that's wrong!

To the extent that the Russians managed to sway voters to Trump with WikiLeaks info adverse to Democrats, and with the false news story plants, then the Russians did indeed sway the outcome of this election. That extent is as yet unknown, but in my book, this meddling is an act of war. Deserving of war in retribution. Combat, economic, cyber, some sort of war.

If the Russians are swaying the electorate by telling the truth, then that is their right, if they are lying then they don't need to hack into anyone's account to spread false information, as it is fiction.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that the Russians also hacked the Republican party and several of its members. Release of adverse information on them is the extortion by which the Russians have the GOP-at-large discounting the effects of the Russian hack into this election process. I am utterly disappointed in the GOP for soft-pedalling such a grave threat from Putin's Russia. Extortion would explain why.

You are assuming that there is adverse information for the Russians to find, that is not a given. You are assuming everyone is guilty, hey just need to be found out, so what bad things did you do that you deserve to go to prison for? Do you think the Russians can find out what you did wrong if they just looked hard enough? I don't think that's true of everybody, and it really is a cynical position to say that it is!

It'll take time to settle this, but things do not look good for either Trump,

Sure it does, your just grasping at straws! We've changed the presidency from political party to political party many times in this nation's history, if you want one-party rule, I hope you'll be disappointed, sometimes your party wins and sometimes it loses, your party lost because it nominated a lousy candidate and it rigged the primary process to guarantee Hillary's victory when she did not deserve one! Perhaps the Democrats ought to get rid of their super delegates for one!

who is in hoc to the Russian mafia that supports Putin, or for the divided GOP as a whole.

Who is the one who supports Russia's invasion of Ukraine except when they need a scapegoat to blame Hillary's defeat on? I'm pretty sure Hillary and Obama are pissing Putin off right now! Putin has been doing the same to the United States, blaming the CIA for instigating a coup against the Ukrainian President and installing a pro-western one, and now Clinton and Obama are trying to do the same thing back to Putin. Putin's "Russia First" agenda and Trump's "America First" agenda are bound to come into conflict, because Putin believes that Russia can only advance at America's expense. Why would he want rump to be President? I can't think of any good reason, can you? You are climbing Mount Improbably with this conspiracy theory by the way.

I smell borderline treason here, maybe not so borderline in some cases. The next 4 years (at least) portend vast chaos. More than Clinton would have brought, and that is saying something. And I did predict this over at my "exrocketman" site.

There is nothing treasonous about the Russians exposing Hillary's "Dirty Laundry", and more that it is treasonous for us to call Putin a murderer, which he is! Seems Clinton and Obama were not overly concerned about the murders of various Russians that opposed Putin, only when it affected Hillary's election and they needed a scapegoat did they suddenly become "anti-Russian!"

I didn't want either one of them. But I thought Clinton was very slightly the lesser of two very great evils. And I did not find the other two parties to be credible options.
GW

Well Hillary lost, the election is past, I don' see why it is worth the trouble to prolong this election to get the "lesser evil." You hae to consider the stability of he country for one thing, if you can't accept losing an election, what do you think the Republicans are going to do is you somehow manage to flip the electoral votes? Do you want another Civil War? Changing the results of an election without another election is very destabilizing, and I say it is better to have Trump as President than to go through this!

Do you know who this was?
Joseph+McCarthy.jpg
Meet Senator Joe McCarthy! Senator Hillary Clinton is doing the same thing he was, finding scapegoats! Perhaps more so than he was.

SpaceNut · 2016-12-18 17:40:17

Here is another to good twist to not be true statement as its just about the same as Hillary pointing fingers to the FBI for there causing her to lose via the constant email attacks in Senior GOP Lawmaker Calls for Investigation of CIA Director Over Media Leaks on Russian Hacking

A senior Republican congressman called for an investigation into whether the head of the CIA leaked to the media while withholding from Congress the agency's findings that Russians used hacking in an attempt to help Donald Trump win the presidency.

So whom holds the smoking gun?
John Podesta weighs in on whether Trump staffers colluded with Russia

John Podesta, the Hillary Clinton campaign chairman whose personal email account was hacked earlier this year, commented Sunday on the possibility that Donald Trump’s campaign staffers were in touch with Russian officials involved in cyberattacks to influence the U.S. election -- an accusation that top Trump aide Kellyanne Conway denied Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation.”
“It’s very much unknown whether there was collusion,” Podesta said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “I think Russian diplomats have said post-election that they were talking to the Trump campaign.”

If I recall the campaing of Trump replaced several managers/ advisors in the middle of the summer which had Russian ties.....

Former Clinton Staffer Tracking Potential Trump Conflicts on 'Corrupt.af' Website is making a splash with a new website that tries to catalog possible conflicts of interest posed by Donald Trump. It currently cites 62 reports of "corruption." Corrupt.af has received nearly 500,000 page views since its inception.

Timeline: Ten Years of Russian Cyber Attacks on Other Nations

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-12-20 00:09:41

GW Johnson wrote:

Tom:
I do not believe you actually understood what I wrote. Your "analysis" has little or nothing to do with what I wrote! You might want to listen to something other than Faux News or that 24/7 cable nonsense, now and then. Your vision might then clear enough to actually see and read what someone else has written.
I SAID I didn't like either one of them: not Trump, not Clinton. I don't much care for either major party, either. Both value political wins above the good of the country. And I really DO consider THAT to be treason.
GOP taxation policy is based on trickle-down economics, which has proven to be an utter lie since the time of Reagan and the right-wing takeover of the GOP,

I seem to remember quite robust growth in the economy during the Reagan years, seems that trickle down economics was working much better than whatever Obama was trying over the past 8 years which produced an average of around 2% growth, the Reagan years had an average of 3.5% with 4.9 percent growth after the recession.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2 … 364b913c92

3 decades ago. Actually, we've known it was BS a lot longer than that. Democratic overspending policy is also BS. What needs to be done is in between those poles, and there is much room for experimentation, as those poles are very far apart. Driven there for over-hyped politicking.
Russian hacking is confirmed. I'm NOT INTERESTED in changing the election outcome. But if hostile foreign powers interfered trying to sway voters,

Have we not done the same in other countries? There are some leaders we would prefer to have in other countries than in others. For instance, having Fidel Castro as leader of Cuba has not been very helpful to our national interests, and we have tried to influence the politics of that country. Have you ever heard of the Voice of America? We've broadcasted into Eastern Block countries in an attempt to influence the politics of those countries, there is nothing wrong with that. Russia likewise has the right to say they like Trump over Clinton and tell us why, there is nothing wrong with them giving their opinion. and if they find something criminal that Hillary is doing, why shouldn't they tell us about it? So long as its true. You see spying is only good for finding out the truth, if they wanted to lie to us, they wouldn't need spies or hackers, they would only need propagandists. So if Russia is completely fabricating stuff to influence our elections, it is not backing into the DNC, because it doesn't need to in order to write fiction. If they find something that is true, why shouldn't they tell us? If it is something that is going to affect our vote, don't you think we have a right to know? Russia is under no obligation to keep Hillary's secrets. We spy on Russia after all, and if the Russians were running a gulag in Siberia using slave labor of inmates to drill for oil, are we obliged to keep that a secret also? That is an illegal activity, if we find out about that going on in Russia, why shouldn't we tell? and if that causes the Russians to overthrow their government, is that a bad thing?

and I believe they did, then I want them to suffer for it, once we are sure about it.

Have you heard about the Russian Ambassador to Turkey who was assassinated by an off-duty cop? Andrey Karlov
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/rus … smsnnews11

Karlov was born on February 4, 1954. In 1976, he graduated from the School of International Economic Relations of Moscow State Institute of International Relations.
In 1992, Karlov graduated from the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian Foreign Ministry. He worked for the ministry since 1976. In 1976-2008, Karlov held various diplomatic positions in the central apparatus of the ministry and its foreign offices. In 2001-2006, he served as the Russian ambassador to North Korea. © YoutubeChaos in Ankara at the Scene of Russian Ambassador's MurderIn 2007-2009, he was a deputy director of the Consular Department of the Russian Foreign Ministry. On January 27, 2009 he was appointed the director of the Consular Department. On July 12, 2013, Karlov was appointed ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of Russia to Turkey. Karlov was proficient in English and Korean languages. The ambassador was married and had a son.
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2016 … or-turkey/

So he was married and has a son, there are at least two Russians who are suffering today!

That's Putin's Russia. Putin preferred Trump over Clinton, because he thinks he can deal with, or manipulate, Trump, and he knew that wild-card "populist" Trump would spread chaos. He knew he could not manipulate or deal with Clinton.

You think Clinton is smart and Trump is not?! What a weird backwards world you live in. Is Einstein also stupid? Einstein was successful in their field of physics just as Trump is successful in the field of finance. I guess you underrate the amount of smarts it takes to be successful in their field of finance, you think any only dope can stumble into a fortune like Forrest Gump? Did Trump invest in a "Fruit Company" that turned out o be Apple Incorporated? You know Forrest Gump is fiction and Donald Trump is not, don't you?

Russian false news / disinformation is both confirmed, and long known to be a standard practice of theirs.

Well you know, the Russians don't have to hack into anyone's e-mails to spread false information, don't you? writing fiction doesn't not require stealing information! If Russia wants to tell he truth about Hillary, it is going to have to find out the truth first, if Russia is going to tell a lie about Hillary, there is nothing to find out, they can just make it up! Writing fiction is perfectly legal, it is a part of free speech.

The US is but the latest victim, this has been going on in Europe for many years now. It has provoked the rise of "tear it all down" (to misuse an old word) "populists" there, and now here. Disruption and chaos makes us weaker, less able to resist Russian ambitions. Or Iranian. Or Chinese. Or North Korean. THAT'S what Putin wants.

We're we strong under Obama? Nope! What has Obama done to stop the alleged hacking? Nothing! Stoping Russian spying was Obama's Job as President of the United States, his Administration was supposed to prevent that and it failed. Obama has not been a strong President, he was in fact a weak President and Putin took advantage of him and of Hillary, but invading Ukraine for one, and what has Obama and Hillary done to stop him? Nothing!

Now you say Trump is weak and easy to manipulate, but so far it has been Obama and Hillary that have demonstrated how weak they were,, their inept government did not stop the hacking, an Hillary keeping her government e-mails on a private server did not help either!

There's no doubt that the US helped influence the revolt in Ukraine that replaced a Putin stooge with an anti-Putin incompetent.

So in other words you are calling the Ukrainian people too stupid to govern themselves, that they cannot be trusted to elect their own government, so Putin must impose one on them using the might of the Russian armed forces, what does that sound like? Kind of sounds like the British government trying to bring to "rebellious American colonists" to heel doesn't it!

There's also no doubt that Putin personally directed Russian troops in eastern Ukraine attempting the pro-Russian revolt there. That same crowd led by that same Putin bear responsibility for shooting down that airliner. We have the photos and the emails to prove all of this. But our government is proving too feckless to make use of that data to discredit Putin in public.

That is our government run by Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton was a part of that government, Trump was not!

McCarthy? I remember McCarthy. I thought he was a dangerous asshole then, and that seems to be the general consensus in recent decades. He ruined people's lives for political gain. Evil person. So too were the ones who let him get away with it so long.

Hillary Clinton ruined peoples lives too, remember those "Bimbo eruptions?" Hillary also employed smear tactics against those women who accused Bill Clinton of inappropriate behavior including rape!

I also remember that in the 1960's the conservative southern Democrats left the Democratic party and went to the Republican party.

Now why would they do that? The Republican Party is the Party of Abraham Lincoln and it still is, much more so in fact than the Democratic Party is the Party of Andrew Jackson! You know Andrew Jackson was the first President of the Democratic Party, just as Lincoln was the first President of the Republican Party. Can you think of anything Trump stands for that Abe Lincoln would disagree with? In some things Trump is more liberal that Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln wanted to deport freed slaves back to Africa, Trump never suggested that.

These were the far-right-wing racists who for half a century had imposed Jim Crow and KKK-type violence. They still do try to do these evils, and have recently come out of the woodwork, as Republicans. The GOP has NOT been the party of Lincoln since the robber baron / gilded age.

That is just Democrat smear, Donald Trump was never a member of the KKK, can you prove that he was?

Problem is, since not long after WW2, the Democrats have turned out to be just as evil. Both lie, cheat, and steal to perpetuate the giant corporate welfare state, run by the rich giants who own them. The political agendas have become meaningless except as distractions to keep the people diverted from knowing what is being done to them. Bread-and-circuses. Nothing more.
As you can see, I think both major parties have idiotic agendas, and both do a lot of evil. Your "conservatism" is the same kind of evil hogwash as that of the "liberals" that I see you despise. Different slogans, same evil.
So there.
GW

So you think people who resist change are evil? Are the Amish evil, they resist change? Amish people ride around in horse and buggies, they don't like new fangled things such as cars, telephones, and electricity, that by definition is a conservative. Should we force them to change and if so change into what? Liberals have been trying to force their kind of changes onto us, they say it is evil that we resist their change, they snap their fingers and demand we make changes to save the planet from global warming! They snap their fingers and demand we accept same sex marriage! They snap their fingers and demand that we pay more in taxes and accept a larger role of government in our lives! they don't want to have a discussion, they just make demands and they demand that we accept their ideas and their changes rather than remaining the same. Remaining the same is less controversial than going with a particular change, because there are many possible changes we can make, not all of them good, but if what we have had works and we want to stick with that, that is what conservatism is all about, because change entails risk! not all changes are good, some changes will make our lives much worse than they are now. If we don't trust a change because we perceive risk, we should not be forced to make a change at the point of a government gun!

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-12-20 21:01:57

In my opinion false news is produced by the News Media, particularly ABC, the New York Times, the Washington Post, CBS, NBC, CNN. There reporting of the election was way off, their polls were not intended to be accurate but to influence public opinion, they made Clinton's win look to be inevitable and they portrayed Trump's campaign as having a slim to none chance of winning, and back then you all seemed to agree with that assessment. The Media was not doing its job, it instead seemed interested in influencing the race through slanted reporting WikiLeaks was the odd man out, it probably had a lot to do with Hillary's defeat, if it weren't for all that e-mail that was uncovered all we would have gotten was the main stream media's propaganda. If the Russians had a hand in it, then I'm not going to question the source. I don't view the Russians as automatically evil, I don't agree with their invading Ukraine, to me that is more offensive than their influencing the Presidential campaign through releasing hacked data. I mean the media was not doing its job, if a foreign source is what it takes to break their monopoly or near monopoly on information, then I don't have a problem with it. WikiLeaks by the way says their source was not the Russians, it that it would matter if it was. A lot of people who'd take Russia's side in the Ukraine conflict are suddenly trying to make Russia the bogeyman to explain Hillary's defeat. in my mind the answer is simple, Hillary was a lousy candidate, and the Mainstream Media was not powerful enough to overcome her inadequacies! Also she was unable to differentiate herself from Obama, because things are not going well with the economy and the war on Terrorism.

SpaceNut · 2016-12-21 21:42:41

Inside the Clinton Email Search Warrant

The search warrant that authorized the FBI to examine a laptop in connection with Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server as secretary of state was released today, and the Clinton camp says it shows that Director James Comey's "intrusion" into the election was "utterly unjustified."

SpaceNut · 2016-12-22 18:16:01

So which are the false news stories.....

Gop to privatize Social security which was said numerous time during the campaign, or is it Republicans Seeking Immediate Cuts to Social Security? Not So Fast Under the Plan, Some Americans Would Eventually See Reductions of at Least 50 Percent, income earners (with yearly income over $78,000) older than 75 could see benefit reductions as high as 40 to 70 percent by 2050.

Electoral States won by Trump did not want 'Obamacare', or is it States Won by Trump Have Highest 'Obamacare' Enrollment with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

Clinton's pay to play foundation sold access to her as secretary of State. His followers chanted - and still do - at rallies, "Lock her up." And in the final weeks, Trump vowed to "drain the swamp." , or Pay-for-Play Questions Continue to Swirl Around Trump Team
The latest controversy revolves around Opening Day, a recently formed Texas non-profit that lists two wealthy Texans, Tom Hicks Jr. and Gentry Beach, along with Eric Trump and Don Trump Jr. as its directors. Without naming its benefactors, organization paperwork says it is raising money for conservation charities by hosting a lavish event with "camouflage and cufflinks" attire in Washington, D.C. the day after the inauguration.

SpaceNut · 2016-12-28 22:03:03

Well then the President of the United States is out of New York's jurisdiction, as Washington DC is not in New York

actually NY does have jurisdiction as he is a resident of that state.

Retaliation for Russian Election Hack Could Be Announced Thursday expelled 35 Russian nationals and sanctioned five Russian entities and four individuals

Update:

Obama said that the State Department is also shutting down two Russian compounds, in Maryland and New York, used by Russian personnel for intelligence-related purposes, and has ordered 35 Russian intelligence operatives to leave the U.S. within 72 hours.
“I have ordered a number of actions in response to the Russian government’s aggressive harassment of U.S. officials and cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election,” Obama wrote in a statement. “These actions follow repeated private and public warnings that we have issued to the Russian government, and are a necessary and appropriate response to efforts to harm U.S. interests in violation of established international norms of behavior.”

SpaceNut · 2016-12-29 15:27:23

Details slowing coming out that two different Russian groups took part in the hack of “a U.S. political party” – a direct reference to the Democratic Party and DNC, which had tens of thousands of internal emails stolen and then released online this year. Planting malware via look alike domain and email addresses ect.... which stole access to networks over time.

U.S. officials have dubbed the alleged Russian campaign “Grizzly Steppe,” and today’s report was issued shortly after the Obama administration announced new sanctions against Russian agencies and individuals for the cyber attacks.

Speaker of the House Paul Ryan: New sanctions against Russia 'overdue' called the Obama administration's new sanctions targeting Russia for meddling in the U.S. presidential election.

In his typical style Trump is Taking credit where credit is NOT due to take credit for job growth when his policies could very well undermine his constituents. Trump Takes Credit for Sprint Plan to Add 5,000 Jobs in U.S. as he tried to deliver on his promise to force corporate America to focus on job creation at home rather than abroad. But not so fast as it will be a combination of newly created jobs and bringing some existing jobs back. Plus do you rememebr his earlier deal In November, Mr. Trump reached a deal with Carrier to keep roughly 850 jobs at its factory in Indianapolis instead of shifting them to Mexico, which the company said it would do in February. Despite Mr. Trump’s pressure, Carrier and its parent, United Technologies, still plan to move more than 1,000 jobs now in Indiana to Monterrey, Mexico.

Congressman Jared Huffman (D-CA) believes that Donald Trump is already violating the Logan Act, which bars citizens from meddling in foreign policy, and he has a bill to make sure future Presidents-elect don’t behave like Trump. Rep. Huffman joins Lawrence.

GW Johnson · 2017-01-02 10:45:14

Well, it's going to be interesting times the next 4 years. Just like the Chinese curse says.

GW

SpaceNut · 2017-01-02 20:13:39

More troubles for transition team as they have run out of funds and are having trouble raising them...
The inauguration is still having trouble finding those to be part of it as Alabama band to march at inauguration, igniting controversy as oldest private, historically black liberal arts college has accepted an invitation to perform but some are saying no..

..descendants of the slaves who helped to build its first building, according to historical documents on the college's website. About six to eight Marist band members among more than 100 have said they won't perform,
"ignored behavior is condoned behavior,"
"I don't want my alma mater to give the appearance of supporting him,"
"should not be playing all these patriotic tunes for someone who has degraded us."
"After how black people were treated at Trump's rallies, you're going to go and shuck and jive down Pennsylvania Avenue? For what?"
"What they did is a slap in the face to other black universities."

Trump you are in for a fight as California Legislature in defense mode for a Trump presidency....

Trumps solution to cyber attacks happens to be use a currier, snail mail for the most important of things.. so who has all the currier notes? He does not believe the hacking was caused by the Russians and yet there are more cases being found of it. More cases of Russian cyberattacks come to light

Since the U.S released a report on election-related cyberattacks on Thursday, a government official said more cases have come to light, CBS News’ Justice and Homeland Security correspondent Jeff Pegues reports.
It is unclear, however, where Mr. Trump or his national security team are getting their intelligence reports. All U.S. intelligence agencies are in agreement that the Russian government with the blessing of Russian President Vladimir Putin orchestrated “aggressive” cyberattacks prior to and during the U.S. election.

Kind of hard to get the reports when he ditches going to them.....and would rather play golf...

SpaceNut · 2017-01-05 21:04:41

The jumping off the Trump ship has started Former CIA Director James Woolsey Leaves Trump Transition Team

“Effective immediately, Ambassador Woolsey is no longer a Senior Advisor to President-Elect Trump or the Transition. He wishes the President-Elect and his Administration great success in their time in office,"

No surprise when the report by Clapper is disdained as Trump believes Assange over his own agencies which are in place to provide such information and would rather believe that the Russians did not Hack the US.

I knew that Trump was in debt to his ears but this is how much as Trump's debt spread across 150 companies, Wall Street Journal says it was repackaged as bonds with more than $1 billion worth of debt. A financial disclosure form released by Trump in May showed that he owed at least $315 million to at least 16 companies. Among the companies listed in the report are Vanguard, which holds more than $225 million of Trump's debt, and Wells Fargo, which holds $14 million.

Wow...great...

U.S. intercepts capture senior Russian officials celebrating Trump win

The ebullient reaction among high-ranking Russian officials — including some who U.S. officials believe had knowledge of the country’s cyber campaign to interfere in the U.S. election — contributed to the U.S. intelligence community’s assessment that Moscow’s efforts were aimed at least in part at helping Trump win the White House.
Other key pieces of information gathered by U.S. spy agencies include the identification of “actors” involved in delivering stolen Democratic emails to the WikiLeaks website, and disparities in the levels of effort Russian intelligence entities devoted to penetrating and exploiting sensitive information stored on Democratic and Republican campaign networks.
Those and other data points are at the heart of an unprecedented intelligence report being circulated in Washington this week that details the evidence of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign and catalogues other cyber operations by Moscow against U.S. election systems over the past nine years.

SpaceNut · 2017-01-05 22:32:18

Talk about fraud... At least 50 Donald Trump electors were illegally seated as Electoral College members: report

More than 50 Electoral College members who voted for Donald Trump were ineligible to serve as presidential electors because they did not live in the congressional districts they represented or held elective office in states legally barring dual officeholders. That stunning finding is among the conclusions of an extensive 1,000-plus page legal briefing prepared by a bipartisan nationwide legal team for members of Congress who are being urged to object to certifying the 2016 Electoral College results on Friday. “Trump’s ascension to the presidency is completely illegitimate,” said Ryan Clayton of Americans Take Action, who is promoting the effort. “It’s not just Russians hacking our democracy.

U.S. intel report identifies Russians who gave emails to WikiLeaks -officials Trump to be briefed on Friday. Trump has rejected the broad intelligence community's assessment that Russia staged cyber attacks during the election campaign to undermine Democratic rival Hillary Clinton.

SpaceNut · 2017-01-08 10:33:24

It appears that hacking is not a bad thing as we can just says its good for relations to have these nations as allies ???? Trump is way off on Russia hack report: Max Boot Will Republicans cave to Trump on Kremlingate? Trump supporters in Louisiana, a state the president-elect won by 20 points, and in Indiana, a state he won by nearly the same margin, found opinions about the report that ranged from general indifference to outright derision. So do they want to change there votes? It is keep your ememies close as they are not your freinds.. not make them your freind...

So goes it with the rubber stamping of the electorals votes even when they could not even be properly registered, whats that illegals voting.....must be ok as Trump says its rigged..... Obama Warns of ‘Accelerating’ Threat of Foreign Governments Interfering With ‘Democratic Practices’

Then there is the selection of cabinet which further goes to the rubber stamping rather than check of security issues, conflict of interests, Ethics investigations.... Several Trump picks' ethics reviews incomplete and yet the hearing for Republican senators move quickly to hold at least nine confirmation hearings next week.

SpaceNut · 2017-01-11 20:17:04

FBI Boss Comey Won’t Say If Investigating Trump’s Ties to Russia but was just the oposite damming Hillary with lots of Email issues... With the proof coming from an ally, British ex-spy behind the Trump dossier was an FBI asset and yet Russia hacked Republican state campaigns but not Trump's - FBI head says. The history of Trump, Putin and the hidden history of how Russia interfered in the U.S. presidential election, There is no surprise that the Intelligence chiefs briefed Trump and Obama on unconfirmed claims Russia has compromising information on president-elect. So much Denial Amid hacking row, pressure builds on Trump to soften pro-Russia rhetoric and I hope more as He needs to go......

Tom Kalbfus · 2017-01-12 00:29:39

SpaceNut wrote:

FBI Boss Comey Won’t Say If Investigating Trump’s Ties to Russia but was just the oposite damming Hillary with lots of Email issues... With the proof coming from an ally, British ex-spy behind the Trump dossier was an FBI asset and yet Russia hacked Republican state campaigns but not Trump's - FBI head says. The history of Trump, Putin and the hidden history of how Russia interfered in the U.S. presidential election, There is no surprise that the Intelligence chiefs briefed Trump and Obama on unconfirmed claims Russia has compromising information on president-elect. So much Denial Amid hacking row, pressure builds on Trump to soften pro-Russia rhetoric and I hope more as He needs to go......

What is it you want? Another Cold War? Over Russia hacking the DNC? Stealing our nation's secrets that's one thing, but hacking the DNC and somehow causing Hillary Clinton to lose an election, well that means War! Your not Hillary Clinton, so what do you care? I'm over this election, how about you?

SpaceNut · 2017-01-12 11:41:29

Moral's and Ethic's of which it was more than just hacking DNC emails.....

SpaceNut · 2017-01-12 16:16:04

Timeline of DNC Hacking or http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016 … .html?_r=0

Officials: Hackers breach election systems in Illinois, Arizona In Illinois, hackers accessed a database for the Illinois Board of Elections, compromising up to 200,000 personal voter records and for in Arizona there is even more comprised records for 15 million individuals. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/after-hack- … se-secure/

Feds believe Russians hacked Florida election-systems vendor

Oh no the Grinch's heart has grow three sizes, Not.... Trump Concedes Russia Was Behind Hacking, Says Putin 'Shouldn't Have Done It'

The FBI director has refused to say whether the FBI is investigating any possible ties between Russia and Trump's presidential campaign. Of which Intel Officials told Biden that the Trump Allegations Might Leak. The dossier in question, prepared by a former intelligence agent hired by Trump's political opponents, claims that Russia has compromising information on Trump, including a variety of sexual and financial allegations. It also claims Trump associates had contacts with Russian officials during an election in which the Russians were accused of cyber-espionage on Democrats working with presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

4 pieces of evidence showing FBI Director James Comey cost Clinton the election

Watchdog Launches Investigation Into Pre-Election Actions of FBI, DOJ

Specifically, the watchdog will look into allegations that DOJ or FBI "policies or procedures were not followed" in connection with Comey's public announcement on July 5, 2016, and his letters to Congress on Oct. 28 and Nov. 6, 2016. The review will also look at whether certain underlying investigative decisions "were based on improper considerations."

GW Johnson · 2017-01-13 11:25:17

Tom:

You are way, way off the mark in every single one of your comments to my posting! What I see in you is an ideologue not capable of rational thought when it comes to politics. You often inject that ideological insanity into many of the other threads you visit on this forum, too.

You are excessively defensive of Trump, precisely because deep down somewhere, you know he is unfit, and it galls you when others call it to your attention. I’ve seen it many other Trump supporters, too. Myself, I didn't like either candidate for any of a variety of good, rational reasons. But of the two great evils, I thought Trump would be a little worse.

Trump has brought nothing but chaos ever since his campaign started. Before that, he caused chaos in the real estate market. People's past actions are the best predictor of their future actions. “Fairness” has absolutely nothing to do with that, and waiting for the inauguration to say that is totally irrelevant. I don't need to cut him or his cabinet selections "a break", as you put it, because their past behavior is a far better predictor of what they will do in those new jobs, more so than any stupid ideology or campaign "promises" (lies actually).

As for Russia, I was defending this country against the threat from Russia before you were born. I have NOT changed. But your erroneous perceptions have, and certainly not for more accuracy. I find your idiotic comment about me and Russia quite insulting.

The Great Recession was caused by many things, but the misbehavior of wall street investment banks driven by greed, and unfettered by any ethics or laws at all, was one of the major causes, if not THE major cause. Government had little to do with it, except not to enforce what regulations or laws that did exist, and that actually happened on the GOP's watch (“W” and a Republican House), because of their idiotic ideology, that in part calls for dismantling all regulations (which are rules for fair play, really).

Your “fact-challenged” (in plainspeak: “wrong”) statement that "government caused the Great Recession" reveals that, like Trump (and so many others), you value ideology over objective fact. I pity you, for you will never see the world as it truly is.

Unlike you, I have never been bankrupt. I managed my life better than that. Of that, I am proud. You, on the other hand, should be ashamed, because you quite evidently mismanaged yours, having gone bankrupt.

Like many other rich elites, for which the bankruptcy laws have been distorted to allow this, Trump used them to stiff people he owed money to, and walk away enriched, in addition to not paying his debts. Ordinary citizens don't get to do that, their debts get reduced, but the filer doesn't get enriched. So how is that "fair"? Knowing that Trump did that 6 times-of-public-record, and you could not, why do you defend him, and that unfair situation? Take off your ideology glasses and see the giant corporate welfare state for what it really is.

It is clear that Spacenut is a Hillary Clinton supporter. That’s OK. It is clear that I supported neither Clinton nor Trump, but that I voted against Trump as the slightly greater of two great evils that I perceived. That’s OK. It is clear that you are a Trump fan, and that’s OK.

The election is over, you no longer need to defend him so radically. He will either succeed or fail on his own. I merely predicted failure, based on his past behavior. And making that prediction is OK, in this thread. There is nothing about that for you to prove or disprove. Trump himself will determine the accuracy of my prediction. He needs no help from you to do that.

Now go away and come back when your vision is not so clouded by ideology.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-01-13 11:37:14)

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