The USA Budget

clark · 2004-08-02 15:49:19

Um, no. :laugh:

OMB has indicated that senior advisors would reccomend a veto if the current version of the House Vetrans/independant department appropriations bill were approved by Congress.

The senior leader in the House who controls what does and does not get passed to the floor for an actual House vote has indicated his opposition to the current bill that was approved by the House appropriations committe. In other words, if this guy dosen't like it, it dosen't get voted on.

Furthermore, the Senate Appropriations committe is working to fully fund NASA (not mention change the NASA charter to include manned exploration as a job requirement) at the requested FY2005. If and when that passes (senior Republican leadership have all indicated their strong support) it will have to be reconciled with the House version in a confrene committe.

Vetran's was funded because it is a pet issue of the Committe chair on the House appropriations committe. It was also an election year "cover your ass" vote. NASA will get their money- if you look around, you may notice that NASA has been busy giving out money for CEV related proposals and is busy with other VSE related tasks.

Palomar · 2004-08-02 16:24:00

I agree that bin Laden wanted us to respond, he wants us to play the Great Satan, he is a product of the Jihad against the Soviets, he's got nothing left. But he also counted on us being the same paper tiger that didn't finish the job in Iraq, pulled punches in Bosnia and ran in shame from Somalia. He gets what he wants if we second-guess ourselves and agonize over what the Muslim world will think of everything we do. It reeks of weakness and decay, a sure way to attract predators and vultures.

*I agree.

Will be repeating myself a bit (sorry), but this is precisely why we should have finished our business in Afghanistan and stayed hot on bin Laden's tail (instead of striking Iraq).

I basically only care what the Muslim world thinks of us when we've done something grossly wrong -- such as that reprehensible Iraqi prison scandal earlier this year.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-08-03 14:34:53

Regarding Bill's assertion that bin Laden wanted us to attack, an assertion I agreed with. From the 9/11 report, shortly after the bombing of the Cole:

"There was no American strike. In February 2001, a source reported that an individual whom he identified as the big instructor (probably a reference to Bin Ladin) complained frequently that the United States had not yet attacked.
According to the source, Bin Ladin wanted the United States to attack, and if it did not he would launch something bigger."

So again, the only way we deny him exactly what he's after is to do nothing, or respond so overwhelmingly and from so many directions he can't fight effectively. It can't be just about 9/11, or Afghanistan, or even bin Laden.

clark · 2004-08-03 15:08:53

Or, we respond in a way that does not play into his plans...

Instead of bombs, books.

Fund pro-western, pro-democracy schools to offer alternatives to the Wahbbis't fundamentalist education.

Expand the Peace corps and other cultural diplomatic efforts to rebuild and create new opportunites in areas that are severaly lacking- you know, the Missionaries have found that when a man's belly is full, he is more inclined to listen to you.

Or just kill em all till we put the fear of our god into them, or we have wiped out the dissention. There is a certain amount of "compasion" in that.

Cobra Commander · 2004-08-03 15:14:19

Or, we respond in a way that does not play into his plans...
Instead of bombs, books.

Which will take at least a generation to work. Meanwhile we're getting blown up by suicidal nutbags trying to goad us into a military response so they can have their damn Jihad. Seems better just to hit 'em hard and be done with it. Start with the books when the dust settles.

clark · 2004-08-03 15:16:28

You are such a visionary Cobra.

So we spend a generation killing them, and two generations rebuilding and teaching- assuming we win (which we MUST if we pursue the kill em strategy).

Somehow I don't think we are ahead here.

But hey, I never much cared for impulse control. Jerk.

Cobra Commander · 2004-08-03 15:23:14

So we spend a generation killing them, and two generations rebuilding and teaching-

We can finish up the "killing" phase much faster than that.

assuming we win (which we MUST if we pursue the kill em strategy).

We plainly can, it's just a question of how far we're willing to go at any given time and of priorities. Are we in this to topple a government over a specific act, or are we in it to bring real and lasting change?

Somehow I don't think we are ahead here.
But hey, I never much cared for impulse control. Jerk.

It's hard to get someone to read a book when they're throwing grenades at you is all I'm saying.
:;):

clark · 2004-08-03 15:39:50

We can finish up the "killing" phase much faster than that.

Yeah, I've heard about the mini-sun Cobra platform. :laugh:

There are more of them than us. Every father we kill creates 5 sons who wish to seek vengence. I'm not a math major, but...

Are we in this to topple a government over a specific act, or are we in it to bring real and lasting change?

Hmm, I thought Bush went in over several specific acts. Which is it? It also seems everyone wants to get out of this as quickly as possible, and screw any real change.

It's hard to get someone to read a book when they're throwing grenades at you is all I'm saying.

Perhaps just beef up the "book" side of the equation. Just a thought.

BWhite · 2004-08-03 15:42:24

So we spend a generation killing them, and two generations rebuilding and teaching-
We can finish up the "killing" phase much faster than that.

Problem is the folks we need to kill are in Saudi Arabia and the wealthy suburbs of Egypt.

That's why we need energy independence and that's why GWB wanted to give the American people Saddam's head and make us think 9/11 was thereby revenged.

Saddam was a secularist!! A diabolical evil secularist but a secularist.

The Bush strategery is the exact opposite of what you propose.

Cobra Commander · 2004-08-03 19:09:58

There are more of them than us. Every father we kill creates 5 sons who wish to seek vengence. I'm not a math major, but...

Start killin' earlier. But you have a point. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the situation or help us very much.

Hmm, I thought Bush went in over several specific acts. Which is it? It also seems everyone wants to get out of this as quickly as possible, and screw any real change.

So the story goes. For the record, I don't believe that Bush is actually attempting the sort of long-term plan I described, though some in the Administration no doubt would like him to. But if such a scheme were to be implemented, you couldn't just come out and say "My fellow Americans, we are undertaking a program to wipe extremist Islam from the face of the Earth by killing its preachers, undermining its tenets and subverting Arab culture thus making the Middle East into middle America. But browner." It would still have to be justified with whatever was convenient at the time.

Quote
It's hard to get someone to read a book when they're throwing grenades at you is all I'm saying.
Perhaps just beef up the "book" side of the equation. Just a thought.

How many books does it take to stop a car-bomb? Before we can begin with your way, we need to eliminate the people that are trying to kill us. Not even all of 'em, just the crazy bastards willing to blow themselves up would be a good start.

Problem is the folks we need to kill are in Saudi Arabia and the wealthy suburbs of Egypt.

Yes. We need a less overt strategy in some cases. A few "happy accidents" need to be arranged.

That's why we need energy independence and that's why GWB wanted to give the American people Saddam's head and make us think 9/11 was thereby revenged.
Saddam was a secularist!! A diabolical evil secularist but a secularist.
The Bush strategery is the exact opposite of what you propose.

In fairness, we don't know what the Bush strategy really is because we aren't in the super-secret meetings. New information is going to crop up over the decades clarifying certain things just as is the case with any other modern war.

That said, Iraq isn't the most obvious, clear-cut target but isn't necessarily in conflict with "the plan." But again, I don't think Bush is trying this, he appears to have a somewhat more optimistic (or naive) plan to bring "democracy" to the Middle East quickly, transposing it over the present culture. Not the best plan, but certainly not the worst.

SpaceNut · 2016-02-14 20:46:37

Fixed topic artifacts and shifting

Budget 2005 and why Nasa is getting less money.....

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-06-17 09:59:50

The USA national Debt Clock is a billboard-sized display that shows the United States gross national debt and each American family's share of the debt. in Manhattan, New York City. It was the first debt clock installed anywhere. It was one block away from Times Square put up by New York real estate developer Seymour Durst, who wanted to highlight the rising national debt. In 2004, the clock was dismantled and a new one installed near 44th Street and Sixth Avenue. In 2008, there was a huge scandal during the Bush junior to Obama years, the U.S. national debt exceeded $10 trillion, one more digit than the clock could display. That old lit dollar-sign removed in the clock's leftmost digit position was later changed to the "1" digit to represent the ten-trillionth place... don't worry it will go back down again they said, back to 9 or 8 Trillion ...but now its past 20 and past 30 Trillion.

year is 2043 - where will the world be

Debt Tops $32 Trillion for the First Time

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/national … 06629.html

The U.S. national debt surpassed $32 trillion for the first time

NASA Fears Budget Cuts Are Imminent After Biden Signs New Legislation

https://news.yahoo.com/nasa-fears-budge … 00412.html

New Mars Forums

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#51 2004-08-02 15:49:19

Re: The USA Budget

#52 2004-08-02 16:24:00

Re: The USA Budget

#53 2004-08-03 14:34:53

Re: The USA Budget

#54 2004-08-03 15:08:53

Re: The USA Budget

#55 2004-08-03 15:14:19

Re: The USA Budget

#56 2004-08-03 15:16:28

Re: The USA Budget

#57 2004-08-03 15:23:14

Re: The USA Budget

#58 2004-08-03 15:39:50

Re: The USA Budget

#59 2004-08-03 15:42:24

Re: The USA Budget

#60 2004-08-03 19:09:58

Re: The USA Budget

#61 2016-02-14 20:46:37

Re: The USA Budget

#62 2023-06-17 09:59:50

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