Conflict between Christianity and Going to Mars?

martienne · 2015-10-20 02:46:27

Question for any Christian members, of the more traditional orientation:
Can you see any reason why a believing Christian should not live in a Mars or Lunar colony?
I recall a comment I once heard, that space travel was un Christian and it stuck in my mind, but no clear explanation was given.

Based on my own knowledge of the Bible and Christian doctrine, I can't see anything that clearly speaks against it.

The only thing i can think of, is that people who believe as some Baptist denominations do, that the Rapture will happen completely unexpectedly. If so, some Christians might miss out on the Rapture (???) if they happen to be on Mars at the time... Not that this would be beyond God to fix, but if you want to be completely literal, and have the pre-trib view, the Rapture is happening on Earth and nowhere else.

Other than that - I can't think of anything...
I'd be interested to hear what anyone who is Christian has heard on this, and what you personally make of it. Can you be a committed Christian on Mars?

Terraformer · 2015-10-20 05:20:37

Why not?

The Pre-tribbers, in addition to being a minority, heteredox group in Christianity, also need to reread their Bibles (well, they need to do that anyway) if they think the Rapture only happens on Earth:

Matthew 24:30-31 wrote:

Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Now, one might argue the *Tribulation* would only happen on Earth. Which would pose an interesting question as to whether one can avoid the Tribulation. Potential grounds for a book, where the Anti-Christ rules over the entire Earth, but hardly anyone cares because hardly anyone lives there anymore?

martienne · 2015-10-20 08:38:41

Great answer! I didn't actually look up the verse, so thanks for doing that.
My Christian background is not pre-trib.

Clearing off to Mars to avoid the tribulation is as good a plan as any...
At the first sighting of a one world government, mark of the beast etc, Mars could turn out to be the rescuer.

Note: I think pre-trib is the dominating view in the US, whereas most European Christian who give it any thought, think that the antichrist events will happen before the Rapture. Imo - I don't personally know where in the Bible either side gets most of their arguments from, and I think a lot of it is quite vaguely phrased.

But there are any number of American Christian books and films where everybody suddenly disappears, i.e. "Left Behind", "Thief in the Night" and many others. I have no idea why there is a difference and I was told that it's not a key faith question.
But it sure is creepy to think of.

But don't you think "Clouds of the heaven" (from the quotes) are on Earth though? I mean, there are no clouds on Mars....
"From one end of the heavens to the other" sounds more likely to include Mars, but as often happens with the Bible, it's not a clearcut case.

Terraformer · 2015-10-20 10:40:44

I'm fairly certain it's more of a metaphor thing, to signify that there's no getting away from God, wherever you may be.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-11-09 12:53:16

Well the trumpet call won't be heard in space. And Angels can't fly their because their wings have no air to push against. As for the Anti-Christ, I think he happened at around 700 AD.

SpaceNut · 2015-11-09 18:38:47

New testament is the teachings of Jesus Christ to which christianity is based but the bible has the old testemant in it as well and if you are Catholic you believe in the old section more.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-11-10 12:05:56

SpaceNut wrote:

New testament is the teachings of Jesus Christ to which christianity is based but the bible has the old testemant in it as well and if you are Catholic you believe in the old section more.

Catholics aren't Jews.

SpaceNut · 2015-11-10 18:21:51

But niether are protestants, Baptist and many others that are practicing the christain religion as read from the Bible

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-11-11 14:19:06

There are lots of things in the Old Testament that we disregard, lots of stuff like an "eye for an eye" and so forth. Then there is the Garden of Eden, and the Biblical Flood of Noah. Where did all that water come from and where did it all go? Isn't there an easier way to kill off most of the human race, like a virus or something?

SpaceNut · 2015-11-11 19:21:48

The Flood of Noah is actually talked of by other races and teachings of a greater being....

American indian
http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legen … alish.html

http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legen … ppewa.html

So is there other religions that mention this flood

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_flood

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Flood_myth

Five Flood Stories You Didn’t Know About

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-11-21 11:41:40

Floods occur all over the World, in the New World and in the Old, so its not surprising that many cultures have stories to tell about floods, but a global flood, we have no evidence for. There is not enough water on Earth to raise the ocean level above the height of Mount Everest, and if we did have that much water, we would have trouble getting rid of it all so we could have dry land.

RobertDyck · 2015-11-21 18:14:22

Conflict between Christianity and Going to Mars?

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-11-21 19:35:39

I think its all made up, this conflict. The only people bringing it up are Atheists with an axe to grind against Christianity.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2015-12-24 08:20:51

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

against. As for the Anti-Christ, I think he happened at around 700 AD.

It depends who colonises Mars, if the current Canadian or British or US government colonized Mars I supposed some form of 'Chirstianity' might be exported. I don't really see how that would be beneficial, but at the same time I would not object. I personally would prefer a colony of more secular settlers, agnostics or atheists...if later on once the colony got up and running, the Mars colonists could chose whatever religion they wish to follow maybe even make their own one religion for the planet Mars.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-12-25 19:03:45

Why would an atheist want to go to Mars? He might die, conquering the frontier is dangerous, there is an increased risk of death if you go to Mars. You won't get the most advanced medical care if you go their, it is on the frontier and you are far from help. Atheists don't believe in the afterlife, so they will want to stay as safe as possible!

Terraformer · 2015-12-26 11:22:13

Well, plenty of atheists *do* want to go to Mars; or at least, they say they want to.

louis · 2015-12-26 19:43:59

A silly argument. There were plenty of atheists who died in support of the Soviet State in the Civil War and WW2 or in the Spanish Civil War. They could have hung back, but they were keen to be in the forefront of the action.

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

Why would an atheist want to go to Mars? He might die, conquering the frontier is dangerous, there is an increased risk of death if you go to Mars. You won't get the most advanced medical care if you go their, it is on the frontier and you are far from help. Atheists don't believe in the afterlife, so they will want to stay as safe as possible!

SpaceNut · 2015-12-26 22:14:10

Belieing in a particular belief structure is not the same as desire to be or do. Yes being an Athiest is a belief structure.....one that believes not in the same structure as others.....

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-01-01 14:24:02

louis wrote:

A silly argument. There were plenty of atheists who died in support of the Soviet State in the Civil War and WW2 or in the Spanish Civil War. They could have hung back, but they were keen to be in the forefront of the action.

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Why would an atheist want to go to Mars? He might die, conquering the frontier is dangerous, there is an increased risk of death if you go to Mars. You won't get the most advanced medical care if you go their, it is on the frontier and you are far from help. Atheists don't believe in the afterlife, so they will want to stay as safe as possible!

Why would they do that if they thought this life they have is all there is. Seems to me that people who go to war, do not value life so highly if they are willing to sacrifice it. A person who believes in life after death would be more willing to forfeit their own for some greater purpose knowing that their rewards would be in heaven. That would be the logical expectation. An Atheist has every reason not to sacrifice their own lives or not to take unnecessary chances and risks with their only life they know about. Were these people who sacrificed their lives for the Soviet Union really Atheists? Maybe they believed in something other than their own existence and therefore were not Atheists. I think the Soviet Union was a stupid reason to sacrifice one's life for, as it does not work. Lenin or Stalin could promise you nothing if you sacrificed your life for "Mother Russia". You are just a carcass if you get in harms way and lose.

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-01-01 14:27:21

SpaceNut wrote:

Belieing in a particular belief structure is not the same as desire to be or do. Yes being an Athiest is a belief structure.....one that believes not in the same structure as others.....

I thought an Atheist believes in nothing other than his own material existence, an material existence that ends sooner if you take unnecessary chances with it. It seems logical that an Atheist would not choose careers such as "Dare Devil", "Soldier", or "Explorer".

louis · 2016-01-01 22:14:21

Strictly speaking atheism and materialism are not coterminus. You could be an atheist who believes we are eternally existing spirits with no creator, for instance, or created out of nothing (just as many materialists believe the cosmos is created out of nothing). But there aren't many philosophical materialists around these days. Most materialists have transmuted into "physicalists".

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

SpaceNut wrote:
Belieing in a particular belief structure is not the same as desire to be or do. Yes being an Athiest is a belief structure.....one that believes not in the same structure as others.....
I thought an Atheist believes in nothing other than his own material existence, an material existence that ends sooner if you take unnecessary chances with it. It seems logical that an Atheist would not choose careers such as "Dare Devil", "Soldier", or "Explorer".

louis · 2016-01-01 22:18:36

You might wish (for some reason best known to yourself) to maintain atheists are incapable of self-sacrifice but the record shows you are wrong. In fact I would say philosophical atheists, particularly those who believe in history as progress, are strongly motivated towards self-sacrifice. You need to read some history.

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

louis wrote:
A silly argument. There were plenty of atheists who died in support of the Soviet State in the Civil War and WW2 or in the Spanish Civil War. They could have hung back, but they were keen to be in the forefront of the action.

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Why would an atheist want to go to Mars? He might die, conquering the frontier is dangerous, there is an increased risk of death if you go to Mars. You won't get the most advanced medical care if you go their, it is on the frontier and you are far from help. Atheists don't believe in the afterlife, so they will want to stay as safe as possible!
Why would they do that if they thought this life they have is all there is. Seems to me that people who go to war, do not value life so highly if they are willing to sacrifice it. A person who believes in life after death would be more willing to forfeit their own for some greater purpose knowing that their rewards would be in heaven. That would be the logical expectation. An Atheist has every reason not to sacrifice their own lives or not to take unnecessary chances and risks with their only life they know about. Were these people who sacrificed their lives for the Soviet Union really Atheists? Maybe they believed in something other than their own existence and therefore were not Atheists. I think the Soviet Union was a stupid reason to sacrifice one's life for, as it does not work. Lenin or Stalin could promise you nothing if you sacrificed your life for "Mother Russia". You are just a carcass if you get in harms way and lose.

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-01-02 15:38:24

louis wrote:

Strictly speaking atheism and materialism are not coterminus. You could be an atheist who believes we are eternally existing spirits with no creator, for instance, or created out of nothing (just as many materialists believe the cosmos is created out of nothing). But there aren't many philosophical materialists around these days. Most materialists have transmuted into "physicalists".
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
SpaceNut wrote:
Belieing in a particular belief structure is not the same as desire to be or do. Yes being an Athiest is a belief structure.....one that believes not in the same structure as others.....
I thought an Atheist believes in nothing other than his own material existence, an material existence that ends sooner if you take unnecessary chances with it. It seems logical that an Atheist would not choose careers such as "Dare Devil", "Soldier", or "Explorer".

if one believes in spirits, one might as well believe in lesser gods and call oneself a pagan. In any universe where spirits exist, there are bound to be greater spirits and lesser ones, the lesser ones can call the greater ones, "gods" and thus does not meet the definition of Atheism. Most of the gods of classic mythology were "one power wonders", they were not omnipotent like the gods of most monotheistic religions. Also if one doubts the existence of God, because He cannot be seen or witnessed, why would one also believe in spirits that also cannot be proven?

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-01-02 15:42:32

louis wrote:

You might wish (for some reason best known to yourself) to maintain atheists are incapable of self-sacrifice but the record shows you are wrong. In fact I would say philosophical atheists, particularly those who believe in history as progress, are strongly motivated towards self-sacrifice. You need to read some history.
A silly argument. There were plenty of atheists who died in support of the Soviet State in the Civil War and WW2 or in the Spanish Civil War. They could have hung back, but they were keen to be in the forefront of the action.

Why would they be willing to end their existence, knowing that their existence would not continue if they ended it? It does not seem logical that people would do away with themselves without a believe that they would continue after death. After all what good does winning or losing a war do if you are not around to see it?

louis · 2016-01-02 18:07:32

Most atheists believe in social progress. If they contribute to social progress, they feel they share in that progress and so their ideas at least live on. What do we do in everyday life? We put ideas into action (I think I'll pop to the local store is followed by walking to the store). So this is no different - If you act on "I wish to see child labour ended around the globe" is followed by no children having their labour exploited, then you have put your idea into action, albeit you might be dead.

Another question you could put is: "Why do so many people who profess to believe in a happy afterlife fear death?"

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

louis wrote:
You might wish (for some reason best known to yourself) to maintain atheists are incapable of self-sacrifice but the record shows you are wrong. In fact I would say philosophical atheists, particularly those who believe in history as progress, are strongly motivated towards self-sacrifice. You need to read some history.
A silly argument. There were plenty of atheists who died in support of the Soviet State in the Civil War and WW2 or in the Spanish Civil War. They could have hung back, but they were keen to be in the forefront of the action.
Why would they be willing to end their existence, knowing that their existence would not continue if they ended it? It does not seem logical that people would do away with themselves without a believe that they would continue after death. After all what good does winning or losing a war do if you are not around to see it?

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#1 2015-10-20 02:46:27

Conflict between Christianity and Going to Mars?

#2 2015-10-20 05:20:37

Re: Conflict between Christianity and Going to Mars?

#3 2015-10-20 08:38:41

Re: Conflict between Christianity and Going to Mars?

#4 2015-10-20 10:40:44

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#5 2015-11-09 12:53:16

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#6 2015-11-09 18:38:47

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#7 2015-11-10 12:05:56

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#8 2015-11-10 18:21:51

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#9 2015-11-11 14:19:06

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#10 2015-11-11 19:21:48

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#11 2015-11-21 11:41:40

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#12 2015-11-21 18:14:22

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#13 2015-11-21 19:35:39

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#14 2015-12-24 08:20:51

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#15 2015-12-25 19:03:45

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#16 2015-12-26 11:22:13

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#17 2015-12-26 19:43:59

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#18 2015-12-26 22:14:10

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#19 2016-01-01 14:24:02

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#20 2016-01-01 14:27:21

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#21 2016-01-01 22:14:21

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#22 2016-01-01 22:18:36

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#23 2016-01-02 15:38:24

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#24 2016-01-02 15:42:32

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