New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-02-12 18:10:02

You beat me to it with the 'birth of the universe' article, Cindy! I was about to post it when I saw your post.
It certainly is very interesting. I'm particularly impressed that the scientists concerned have been able to derive a much more accurate estimate for the age of the universe - 13.7 billion years, give or take 1%.
And it seems the new data support the concept of 'inflation theory', where the whole fabric of the universe suddenly expanded at superluminal speed very soon after the big bang. This is a concept I've always had trouble digesting and I always wondered whether it might eventually be shown to be false - it just seemed too arbitrary and convenient to be true, somehow.
But not so! I guess you just have to have a very much better understanding of mathematics than I do, that's all!! It just goes to show how conceited I can be, imagining that just because I couldn't see the logic in 'inflation', that they might eventually find it wasn't so!!! Ah well ... back to personal development school!

And thanks, Soph, for that great 'martian gullies' story. This is just the sort of result that's music to my ears - it's made my day!
As some of you know only too well (! ), I've supported the cause of a watery Mars (ad nauseam) for a long time. One of the thorns in my side in this regard, has been a fellow Australian called Dr. Nick Hoffman, who has tried to explain all the channels and gullies on Mars as being produced by avalanches of liquid/gaseous CO2 mixed with rock and dust.
He has been using his intellectual talents and careful study of the data to formulate his opinions, while I have had to rely largely on instinct and gut-feeling and stuff I've gathered from years of browsing books, mags, and the net!
I've always nursed this fear that I've been fooling myself - believing what I want to believe - and that, eventually, Dr. Hoffman would win out.
But this article specifically says that liquid water fits the data very well, while CO2 ranks as one of the least likely explanations.
YESSSS !!!!
I'm more convinced than ever now that Mars is hiding a very large amount of water - certainly at the top end of the range of possibilities put forward so far, and maybe even more!

Palomar · 2003-02-13 08:57:56

I guess you just have to have a very much better understanding of mathematics than I do, that's all!!

*Tsk, tsk. Shaun, Shaun, Shaun. You're being a bit too modest. I've read enough of your posts to know mathematics isn't a hurdle for you...unlike me, probably the only person here who has rocks in the head when it comes to all those pesky numbers which seemed to grow at an exponential rate on the blackboard and nearly drove me CRAZY as a kid...{whew}, enough of that. Numbers -- ick!

---

*That is one big honkin' cyclone on Mars, babies:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap990520.html

*Dunes, dunes, dunes...I wonder what the scale is of this photo. My god, just huge, beautiful, bare dunefields:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000202.html

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-02-13 10:08:20

*Great web site about our solar system.

!!--->Available for reading in 5 languages!

Be sure to check out the Photo Archives!

http://www.solarviews.com/ss.html

--Cindy

Phobos · 2003-02-13 13:11:03

That was an impressive pic of a Martian cyclone. It looks like a hurricane that's taking up about half the planet. Considering how thin the Martian air is, I wonder if standing in that thing would be like standing in a strong breeze on Earth, just with a lot of sand flying by. Flying kites on Mars might become an interesting past time. Put on the helmet and take the kite out. The thinner air might not support such an activity on a regular basis but maybe the lesser gravity would equal things out?

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-13 13:36:18

Never knew Mars had cyclones. At first when I read your post I thought you were talking about dust devils! I thought you'd seen a dust devil that ?took up half of Mars!?

Here are some sites about Martian Dust Devils:

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/7_1_99_devils/
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs....stdevil

There was a page which compilled all known ones, but I can't find it at the momment.

Interestingly, we've been imaging Martian Dust Devils since all the way back in the Viking days. Which pretty much means they are quite common!

Palomar · 2003-02-13 13:39:20

Phobos: Considering how thin the Martian air is, I wonder if standing in that thing would be like standing in a strong breeze on Earth, just with a lot of sand flying by.

*As big as it is (and I'm surprised at the size of it, considering the thinness of the atmosphere), I should think it would be comparable -- at least -- to a 30 mph wind here on Earth.

Phobos: Flying kites on Mars might become an interesting past time. Put on the helmet and take the kite out. The thinner air might not support such an activity on a regular basis but maybe the lesser gravity would equal things out?

*Hmmmm. Wouldn't a kite likely just float up and hang in the air, like a helium balloon on a string? Maybe a few little darts and dodges from the slight breeze...

--Cindy

TJohn · 2003-02-13 14:59:44

Those are some good photos. Too bad we don't have someone there to actually describe it firsthand. :;):

Palomar · 2003-02-13 16:30:38

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY!

http://www.solarviews.com/cap/mgs/heart.htm

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-02-13 19:38:29

Yeah, Happy Valentine's Day right back atcha!!
Cindy, I'm not being unduly modest about mathematics. It was always difficult for me to grasp mathematical ideas and only perspiration (not inspiration! ) and pig-headed determination allowed me to pick up the limited amount of it I did.
But I have seen 'The Great Hall of Mathematics'. I even entered its vestibule. And, occasionally, when the inner door was opened briefly by someone with the gift, I glimpsed the inner sanctum from a distance. And it was glorious and awesomely beautiful and incomprehensible. And with all I knew about mathematics, from that time on, I knew how little I really knew.
But thanks for the compliment anyhow!

And thanks for the picture of the cyclone, too! It's a whopper all right!! I didn't realise they made 'em that big on Mars.

And yeah, Josh. Those dust-devils must be pretty common, as you say. And it's amazing how big they get too.

Good to hear from you again, Phobos! Hope all is well.
I don't see why you shouldn't be able to fly a kite on Mars if the wind is strong enough. But I guess on an average day, you'd have to content yourself with dragging it over the dunes!

George H · 2003-02-14 10:31:37

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY!
http://www.solarviews.com/cap/mgs/heart.htm
--Cindy

Rose's for you Cindy, happy Valentines Day!! I always like your posts!!

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Palomar · 2003-02-14 15:15:55

*Cool "cut-away" models of planets and some moons in our Solar System (one of the pages of the web site I referred yesterday). It'd be cool if they could animate such cut-aways, i.e. showing the flow of gases, clouds, etc. of the gas giants in particular:

http://www.solarviews.com/cap/index/cutawaymodels1.html

And thanks, George, for the compliment.

--Cindy

Phobos · 2003-02-15 18:47:34

He has been using his intellectual talents and careful study of the data to formulate his opinions, while I have had to rely largely on instinct and gut-feeling and stuff I've gathered from years of browsing books, mags, and the net!

LOL! :laugh:

*Cool "cut-away" models of planets and some moons in our Solar System (one of the pages of the web site I referred yesterday). It'd be cool if they could animate such cut-aways, i.e. showing the flow of gases, clouds, etc. of the gas giants in particular:

Even though it's not exactly cinema quality, there's a half-baked movie of Jupiter's clouds taken by Cassini over here. I'm itching with anticipation to see those photos from Huygen's probe when it crashes down on Titan.

Palomar · 2003-02-18 13:45:59

*Candor and Ophir Chasmata [awesome pic...is there a parachute in the house?!]:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-02-18 16:01:54

*There is life on Mars already? Jack Frost has been there, apparently...(pretty...)

http://www.spacescience.com/headlines/y … 9mar_1.htm

Doesn't look like Swiss or cottage cheese to me, though.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-02-22 10:31:59

And thanks, Soph, for that great 'martian gullies' story. This is just the sort of result that's music to my ears - it's made my day!
But this article specifically says that liquid water fits the data very well, while CO2 ranks as one of the least likely explanations.
YESSSS !!!!
I'm more convinced than ever now that Mars is hiding a very large amount of water - certainly at the top end of the range of possibilities put forward so far, and maybe even more!

*Marsian snow and gullies...:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030221.html

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-02-22 12:44:40

*Hopefully this hasn't been posted to New Mars previously, somewhere; interesting info on comparison between Mars and Earth volcanoes:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0211/22marsearth/

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-02-24 18:56:23

For some reason, I'm having trouble accessing that link, Cindy.
Maybe I'll try again later.

Palomar · 2003-02-24 21:24:02

For some reason, I'm having trouble accessing that link, Cindy.
Maybe I'll try again later.

*I just read your message, Shaun, went back and clicked on the link...it works just fine for me; the page comes up immediately, as before. Hopefully you can get it to work at the next try. ???

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-02-25 01:16:22

Thanks, Cindy!
It's working OK now. Must be just me! I have this effect on computers ... they can smell fear!!

A good article, too.
It's always encouraging to hear of further similarities between Earth and Mars - it makes the prospect of terraforming seem all the more feasible! (And that makes me happy.)

TJohn · 2003-02-25 08:36:27

Here's another reason for the Kuiper Belt - Pluto missions.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/outerplanets-03c.html

Palomar · 2003-02-25 10:19:07

Thanks, Cindy!
It's working OK now. Must be just me! I have this effect on computers ... they can smell fear!!

*That happens to men too? Hmmmm. I thought machines only had it in for women.

A good article, too.
It's always encouraging to hear of further similarities between Earth and Mars - it makes the prospect of terraforming seem all the more feasible! (And that makes me happy.)

*I think this is the first all-encompassing, quality photo I've seen of Mons Olympus. It doesn't look as big as it really is...of course, there's nothing around it to help gauge its enormous size to the eye. It sort of looks like a half-flattened out doughnut. I guess I'm used to equating mountains and volcanoes with jagged, rocky peaks or something...

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-02-25 16:01:12

*Ah, so this is where fire-breathing dragons are birthed:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030223.html

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-02-26 13:42:18

*I've been trying to refind this photo; "Inca City" on Mars:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/planet … a_city.jpg

*The text that goes with it:

Mariner 9 image of the "Inca City". During the Mariner 9 mission, scientists found an unusual rectilinear structure associated with the south polar pitted terrain which they dubbed the "Inca City". Located near -80 degrees latitude and 64 degrees longitude, it is likely the result of wind deflation of deposits from underlying rough terrain. The "cells" in the image are about 4-5 kilometers in width.

*More photos, including the above:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/photo_galler … -mars.html

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-02-27 15:36:21

GOOD NEWS!! Mission to Mars!:

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl....oration

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-27 17:39:36

I swear to god, Cindy, when I saw that on Yahoo! news (I read Yahoo's little news snippets), I thought I lost my bet with clark! Damn me being hopeful in times of war.

It's good to see the rovers are on schedule, though.

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