Mars as an alternative to War. - Can space exploration replace War?

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 13:48:04

Hey, in my context I'm not calling all people of a race a name, either, just the stupid ones! My example has ample bearing. It shows your double standard.

soph · 2003-02-10 13:50:16

Stupid and narcotics trafficking are completely different animals. Let's not oversimplify the issue here.

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 14:12:20

They're both ?criminal? to certain people. Just look at marijuana (some people wouldn't consider marijuana trafficing or smoking a ?crime,? or ?wrong?). In fact, the whole marijuana ban had a lot of racism go along with it. Some of the major players calling upon legislators to ban marijuana because ?darkie jazz musicians? were smoking it. Other terms used were, ?disrespectful darkies? and ?lazy Chicanos.?

The analogy stands, despite its simplification.

soph · 2003-02-10 14:13:58

Cocaine isn't in the same league as weed.

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 14:24:13

And that justifies it in your mind... figures.

Mexico is the second largest importer of marijuana, though. Before Canada got into the business, Mexico was the first...

I'm willing to wager that most of what they import is marijuana. But that's beside the point.

soph · 2003-02-10 14:26:41

Justifies calling the drug traffickers wetbacks? Why can't you focus on the main point he was talking about? You obviously didn't know about it before I described the issue-you picked on 3 words out of a 10 minute discussion.

Why go for the substance when you can pick at the lining?

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 14:47:24

Are all drug traffickers wetbacks (a term used to insult Mexicans)?

Or are a lot of them white Americans who actually drive over the borders legally (many are)? Or what?

Are all stupid people albino niggers?

Or are a lot of stupid people, just, well, stupid?

O'REILLY: Oh, I am with you there. You've got to get the high-tech stuff there.
But I'll tell you what. I've talked to the commanders, and they tell me, look, you deploy us down there, we stop the drug traffic dead, we stop it dead, all right. They're not even going to try.
We'd save lives because Mexican wetbacks, whatever you want to call them, the coyotes -- they're not going to do what they're doing now, all right, so people aren't going to die in the desert.

Not racist, my ass.

And you know what, the ?solution? is bullshit. They're not going to stop it just by militarizing the borders. It'll just come from other sources, at the expense of American taxpayers.

soph · 2003-02-10 14:50:39

No, not all of them are Mexicans. Some of them are white Americans, who I wouldn't hesitate to call hicks, or the derogatory term that fits the trash they are.

Like I said, you really have to get off this stupid point. I already debunked it.

At least stopping the traffic from getting in is better than trying to react in the country. At least he's trying to find a solution. It's better than people nitpicking at every word

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 15:03:52

So I'm right, you basically think it's justified to call someone or a whole sterotype derogatory terms if you consider their behavior criminal or whatever.

I guess it's justified to call stupid people albino niggers, then... I mean, I personally do find stupidity to be criminal. Because I deal with it way too much.

And he's not trying to find a solution. Bill O'Reilly could give a crap less, he just wants to make ratings. He marches the conservative line all the way.

soph · 2003-02-10 15:12:00

Heh, conservative being whatever isn't bleeding heart liberal? Come on Josh, you actually have to watch his show to know what he stands for. Boo-hoo, he told the guy from take back the media that his site was propoganda-and he's right.

As I have said, stupidity isn't inherent to blacks. So stop trying to smear me with something I already debunked. It isn't working.

What I said was if somebody is the type of person who exmplifies a stereotype that causes a group of innocent people to be smeared, we have every right to point it out. For example, the "ugly American." Europeans have no problem throwing the term around, but I sure as hell have no problem if they call the ultra-right or ultra-left "Ugly Americans," because they are the ones who create the stereotype. I would actually be happy if they specific, as O'Reilly was, because it shows that this stereotype is caused and perpetuated by a minority of the population.

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 15:29:41

I'm not saying that stupidity is inherent to blacks. I'm just showing some moral equlivancy here. It's okay to call someone racial shit if I think they're criminals, right?

When you say this shit about people ?exemplifying a stereotype? you are acknowledging that the stereotype is even true (racial stereotypes are never true, sorry to break it to you).

Goddamn darkie jazz musicians! Playing their satanic music! Being evil! Freakish tones and devil dancing! Corrupting our children and raping our daughters!

What if all drugs became legal because we found a way to keep people from being addicted to them and showed that they didn't cause brain damage? Would it then be justified to call these narcotic traffickers all these stupid epithets? Clearly you think it would! What a bunch of crap.

I've seen his show, soph. Don't think I haven't. It's clear where you stand here, and why you've responded so many times with futile attempts to defend him. You watch his show and like it, so you feel obligated to.

soph · 2003-02-10 15:31:37

It's pointless to argue with a wall.

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 15:42:16

I agree. I iterated my point to you several times, but you avoided even responding to it...

soph · 2003-02-10 15:48:12

"I know you are but what am I." How mature, I'm truly impressed.

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 16:02:46

Hah, I know what I am!

I even agreed with you about the wall comment. The difference is that I often do things which are pointless, and bored.

I find it sad that you think there's even a small bit of credibility in racial stereotypes, as shown by your comments.

soph · 2003-02-10 16:33:05

Hey, coming from a German Jewish background, I know that both have stereotypes that are sometimes the case. I've been around some Germans that you'd want to flee from, and some Jews that are as sniveling as you 1-800-lawyer.

Palomar · 2003-02-10 16:50:51

*"Sleep comes like a drug, in God's country..."

Hmmm. Clark, it looks to me like Josh & Soph are giving you and me some competition in the ol' debate category. Are we just going to stand idly by and let them dethrone us as Debate Adversaries of New Mars? Pick a topic, any topic...let's roll up our sleeves and give each other some serious cyber b!tch slaps, like the good old days...waddya say?

C'mon, "Clarkie"...BRING IT ON!! {giggle}

--Cindy

clark · 2003-02-10 17:18:31

Ah buh?

What is this thread about now? Not that I care, I'm fairly certain that all involved are wrong. The only saving grace is Cindy hasn't chimed in with how 18th century enlightenment is the answer to all of us ass-backwards neolithic thinking folks.

Deragoatory names are an infantile means to relate to another individual.

Please remember that the first step is to dehumanize an individual, it then becomes acceptable to heep all kinds of misery or blame upon them. If you meant it as a joke, or were being flippant, than you are lazy or stupid, or both.

Take the time to get to know people, they will never dissapoint you in provding ample room to hate them on an individual basis.

I know deragatory names, but why use them in a conversation? What is gained?

Sterotypes are a means for little lazy minds to categorize wide swaths of information. "I don't need to think about who I meet- I'll just categorize them based on color, sex, height, skin tone, weight, etc".

So, Cindy, want to revisit the death penalty? :angry:

dicktice · 2003-02-10 17:58:42

Soph and Josh Cryer! You both seem so retrograde, and I might add--futile. Why not contribute something new and positive to this forum that we older types, to whom your old fashioned and stereotypical arguments are gone and hopefully forgotten, can contribute...please, for gosh sakes?

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 18:11:18

Oh soph, don't confuse race with ethnicity or culture. The differences between races are quite irrelevant (if perceptable beyond physical body structure)! Make no mistake about it!

Cindy, hah, business is slow. The economy is screwed. I have nothing better to do, and I get really bored.

I look forward to surpassing your post count, though, it shall be a wonderful ocassion indeed. :;):

And clark, what's this about everyone being wrong? You sided with me man! Don't contridict yourself here. :;):

Come now, dicktice, I contribute the newest, most progressive ideas here. Everyone else is harping on old ideas like property and so on. So don't be silly!

soph · 2003-02-10 18:15:35

Progressive is relative. What one may deem as progressive, another may deal as retrograde. But oh, well, let's finish this economy issue-we're obviously not convincing each other.

Truce?

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 18:22:34

Blah, how can I have a truce now? You just degraded my clear progressiveness! I am insulted.

Okay. Truce.

Palomar · 2003-02-10 19:03:11

The only saving grace is Cindy hasn't chimed in with how 18th century enlightenment is the answer to all of us ass-backwards neolithic thinking folks.

*I've never claimed 18th century Enlightenment philosophy has all the answers (because it doesn't).

What I have said (all along) is that it's my (model agnostic in orientation) opinion that 18th century Enlightenment philosophy offers some of the best models and tools for human use yet developed.

That's all.

And I've -never- referred to anyone here as "ass-backwards neolithic-thinking"...actually, I think New Mars has some of the best thinkers I've yet encountered in an internet forum (whether I agree with them or not).

--Cindy

soph · 2003-02-10 19:10:37

Uh oh, I see a debate looming!

The problem I see with relying on philosophy, is that most philosophers speak with a bias. The reason I like Adam Smith's views is because it is an analysis of a system, not creating a system from a point of view.

While I agree with snibbets of Voltaire, and Rousseau, and others, I wouldn't take everything they say and slap it onto society. The world of capitalism already existed before _The Wealth of Nations_.

And I will agree that society today is not perfect. We need to take a step back and an analytical approach to the problem, not one fueled by political and social agendas. This only leads to more problems, and a new group of people to complain!

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-10 20:51:13

Hmm, I like thinkers which lived in the very late 19th to early 20th century, myself. As far as economists go, Keynes is probably the only one I would trust (because his principles have shown to be right). But as to general political theory, Proudhon's arguments are simply unbeatable (it's been some 80+ years and not one good rebuttal yet, that I know of).

I see no issue with the pholosophical approach as long as it's grounded in truth. Formal logic is one of the basis for science, as such, it ought to be used whenever possible. As far as analysis goes, philosophy can be just as analytical as any other systems.

The problem, I see, with people who respond to my posts, is that they fail to understand simple concepts like the Laws of Thermodynamics, or the implications of Moores Law (I know, it's not a true scientific law, but it does have basis in reality- there are limits to how good things can become). Perhaps it's my approach, or perhaps people are just too hardheaded to listen, in any case, whenever I do make my arguments, it's always quite analytical, despite what people want to believe.

Society will never be perfect as long as there is inequity.

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Re: Mars as an alternative to War. - Can space exploration replace War?

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