Beautiful & Terrible

clark · 2014-05-16 23:15:29

Beautiful & Terrible.
Absence and the in-between,
what we left behind with each goodbye-
sand and dust, hope and love,
promises that youth made sweet as our age turned bitter.
Wearing ill fitting names we walk and point, the stars,
the moon,
our Mars;
the mathematical precision of eternity debated,
again,
again.
Again, once more.
Once more, you and I.
The silence beckons, calling.
It never stopped, though you did- I did.
I dream again, of Mars rising,
Beautiful & Terrible.

-clark

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-17 05:53:29

So are you trying to start a poetry thread?

clark · 2014-05-17 08:32:37

what do you think i am trying to start?

martienne · 2014-05-17 09:09:34

I thought it was beautiful. Did you actually write it yourself?

clark · 2014-05-17 23:47:47

An empty canvas;
unpainted promise.
hope in every colored stroke,
red, blue, green,
such disappointment.
a shadow of a shadow of what we see so clearly-
red river valleys, silver gold
the green bleeds with rust, a salmon pink sky
and water, everywhere, burbles and bubbles, towards waiting sea;
fire and ice burn and twinkle, every star above, beyond
I see so well what might be.
Red. Blue. Green.
Too few colors to paint this masterpiece.

-clark

clark · 2014-05-17 23:55:43

martienne wrote:

I thought it was beautiful. Did you actually write it yourself?

Thank you for your compliment. I do write these myself. Other items are buried in some older threads on this board.

clark · 2014-05-24 00:11:56

dreaming tomorrow,
with silver metal rainbows,
hunger, fire, waiting.

RobertDyck · 2014-05-26 12:49:16

Give Peace a Chance
- John Lennon

Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

(C'mon)
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Minister, Sinister, Banisters and Canisters,
Bishops, Fishops, Rabbis, and Pop Eyes, Bye bye, Bye byes
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

(Let me tell you now)
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation,
Integrations, mediations, United Nations, congratulations
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary,
Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper,
Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer, Alan Ginsberg, Hare Krishna
Hare Hare Krishna
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
(Repeat 'til the tape runs out)

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-26 16:56:44

RobertDyck wrote:

Give Peace a Chance
- John Lennon
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
(C'mon)
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Minister, Sinister, Banisters and Canisters,
Bishops, Fishops, Rabbis, and Pop Eyes, Bye bye, Bye byes
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
(Let me tell you now)
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation,
Integrations, mediations, United Nations, congratulations
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary,
Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper,
Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer, Alan Ginsberg, Hare Krishna
Hare Hare Krishna
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
(Repeat 'til the tape runs out)

Very vulgar song, especially the third verse. Gives "peace" a bad name.
The key to peace is actually strength and the knowledge your enemies have that if they start a wa, they will lose for certain, that is the problem with World War II, there wasn't that certainty in front of Hitler that he would lose the war h was about to start, because if there was he might not have started it. Instead everywhere Hitler looked, he saw weakness and vulnerabilities. If you want to give peace a chance, don't look vulnerable and weak to your enemies! And I'm speaking of Obama's weakness and Putin seeing vulnerabilities and the possibility that he can get away with snatching some more land, so long as that condition exists, we risk war. The so called "Just Wars" are usually the bloodiest, I'm thinking of the Civil War and World War II. Generally if we get in a war early it is less bloody for us and also more controversial, such as Iraq and Afghanistan. If I was a soldier, I would rather go to Iraq in the Iraq War than land on the beaches of Normandy! How about your Robert? If given a choice would you rather do a tour of Iraq or land on the beaches of Normandy in period World War II equipment in 1944? I know which engagement I more likely to kill you, and its not the Iraq War.

RobertDyck · 2014-05-26 20:48:22

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

RobertDyck wrote:
Give Peace a Chance
- John Lennon
Very vulgar song... Gives "peace" a bad name.

This is your attitude? Need I say more?

Terraformer · 2014-05-27 02:19:46

The key to dealing with leg cancer is amputation. It will definitely get rid of it.

It won't be a cure in any way, but it will get rid of the cancer.

Such is peace through superior firepower.

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-27 19:02:51

RobertDyck wrote:

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
RobertDyck wrote:
Give Peace a Chance
- John Lennon
Very vulgar song... Gives "peace" a bad name.
This is your attitude? Need I say more?

I am talking about this verse in particular:

(Let me tell you now)
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation,
Integrations, mediations, United Nations, congratulations
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

A song about Masturbation is vulgar, flagellation means whipping somebody with a whip, if that is "Peace", I don't want it!

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-27 19:05:51

Terraformer wrote:

The key to dealing with leg cancer is amputation. It will definitely get rid of it.
It won't be a cure in any way, but it will get rid of the cancer.
Such is peace through superior firepower.

Superior firepower doesn't have to be used when it is evident to everybody that the firepower is superior and that anyone who challenged it would lose. World War II occurred because it was not so Obvious that the West would win, it wasn't obvious to Hitler, he saw weakness and western leaders eager to sell out Czechoslovakia for a chance of peace! What lesson do you suppose Hitler took from that? Now if we simply outclassed the Third Reich in every respect in firepower and willingness to use it, there would have been no World War II. As the United States would not has started it, as evidenced by America's behavior when it had a nuclear monopoly from 1945-1949. If anyone was to be a superpower, better the USA than the Third Reich, the later would have used those nukes to conquer the World! The United States acted responsibly, Germany did not!

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2014-05-27 19:07:33)

Terraformer · 2014-05-28 07:23:13

If the Third Reich had outclassed everyone else, there would also have been peace, as everyone submitted. Your point?

RobertDyck · 2014-05-28 08:03:47

Tom, you obviously don't get it. The issues that John Lennon raised are still problems in American society; and they're getting worse. Love is not a problem. Love in all its forms is good. Love between a man and a woman. Love between a 17-year-old boy and a girl of the same age. Extra-marital sex (single people) is good. Same sex marriage. Polygamy, as long as everyone is consenting.

And to put a fine point on that, in 1991 I met a woman in North Dakota, after we dated for a few weeks she told me she was bisexual, and in her previous marriage she had a husband and co-wife. Every so often her husband would bring a third woman home for them all to have sex with. She asked me to do that. I was freaked out; that isn't what I want. It took a while for me to realize she was serious. At a club camping event, she hit on other women right in front of me, treating me like I didn't exist. That isn't what I want, I want a wife who will be loyal, so I dumped her. But for some guys she's a dream. I'm sure she found someone.

John Lennon's song has two parts. One is spoken, by a single person, spoken quickly, clipped, harsh, abrupt. The chorus is sung by everyone else. The chorus is slow, melodic, harmonious. The verse is staccato, the chorus is legato. When the verse says "Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout", only one person is speaking. When the chorus sings "All we are saying", then it actually is everyone else. The one person who is speaking in discord with everyone else is trying to push "This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism", while everyone else doesn't care about any of that. The one person in discord talks about "Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation, Integrations, mediations". Again, the one person in discord wants "revolution", meaning violent conflict. Everyone else doesn't want that, they just want to live their lives in peace. The one person in discord wants "flagellation", meaning to inflict violent punishment on others. The one person in discord talks about "regulation", meaning setting restrictions on others. Everyone else wants none of that.

One word you obsessed about is "masturbation". I started by saying all forms of love are good. Sex with yourself is obviously your own business; no one else can say anything about that. But in this song, it's one of the words spoken by the one person in discord. Everyone else wants nothing to do with that issue, or that person.

Tom, don't be the one person in discord.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2014-05-28 08:17:49)

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-28 08:34:18

Terraformer wrote:

If the Third Reich had outclassed everyone else, there would also have been peace, as everyone submitted. Your point?

Only if we let it reach that point. The Third Reich started out as a defeated country, the United States always had more resources than it did. All the United States needed to do to avoid World War II was to stay ahead of Germany in the arms race, and establish bases in Poland and France always having more tanks troops and airplanes and developing the atomic bomb first, that way Nazi Germany would never have had a chance in starting World War II. Do you disagree that World War II should have been prevented. What use did the death of 50 million people in World War II serve except to advance the cause of the Soviet Union in acquiring more territory? I think a weapons build up would have been less costly than fighting World War II, after all a weapons build up only costs money, not lives. The main thing is that the Third Reich was Evil, it didn't start out on top and the only way it could get on top is if we let it do so, by not reacting to its arms buildup and provocations. The United States and its allies, except for the Soviet Union were clearly the good guys in this conflict, all they had to do is retain their positions with superior forces, I can't think of any good reason why it should not. Why should we have let the Germans win? Is there any useful purpose in this? I'd say the best thing t do I not have the war in the first place, by discouraging Hitler from starting it, do you disagree? Do you think WWII ought to have been fought and 50 million lives lost in order to defeat Hitler?

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-28 08:45:21

RobertDyck wrote:

Tom, you obviously don't get it. The issues that John Lennon raised are still problems in American society; and they're getting worse. Love is not a problem. Love in all its forms is good. Love between a man and a woman. Love between a 17-year-old boy and a girl of the same age. Extra-marital sex (single people) is good. Same sex marriage. Polygamy, as long as everyone is consenting.

How many pregnant teens have you had in your high school?

RobertDyck wrote:

And to put a fine point on that, in 1991 I met a woman in North Dakota, after we dated for a few weeks she told me she was bisexual, and in her previous marriage she had a husband and co-wife. Every so often her husband would bring a third woman home for them all to have sex with. She asked me to do that. I was freaked out; that isn't what I want. It took a while for me to realize she was serious. At a club camping event, she hit on other women right in front of me, treating me like I didn't exist. That isn't what I want, I want a wife who will be loyal, so I dumped her. But for some guys she's a dream. I'm sure she found someone.
John Lennon's song has two parts. One is spoken, by a single person, spoken quickly, clipped, harsh, abrupt. The chorus is sung by everyone else. The chorus is slow, melodic, harmonious. The verse is staccato, the chorus is legato. When the verse says "Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout", only one person is speaking. When the chorus sings "All we are saying", then it actually is everyone else. The one person who is speaking in discord with everyone else is trying to push "This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism", while everyone else doesn't care about any of that. The one person in discord talks about "Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation, Integrations, mediations". Again, the one person in discord wants "revolution", meaning violent conflict. Everyone else doesn't want that, they just want to live their lives in peace. The one person in discord wants "flagellation", meaning to inflict violent punishment on others. The one person in discord talks about "regulation", meaning setting restrictions on others. Everyone else wants none of that.
One word you obsessed about is "masturbation". I started by saying all forms of love are good. Sex with yourself is obviously your own business; no one else can say anything about that. But in this song, it's one of the words spoken by the one person in discord. Everyone else wants nothing to do with that issue, or that person.
Tom, don't be the one person in discord.

I think what one does with ones private parts should not be open to public discussion. Private is just that private, I don't want songs about what people do in private, and I don't see what peace has to do with that.

clark · 2014-05-29 21:13:34

Oh Beautiful. Oh Terrible.
Such joy to watch you perform for me.
Dirty little boys.
Thank you.
Now dance monkey.
Dance!

RobertDyck · 2014-05-29 23:32:56

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

How many pregnant teens have you had in your high school?

In high school I was required to take geography. We were taught that age of majority is different in different countries. You can drink at age 21 in most states in the US, or age 19 in Ontario, or age 18 in Manitoba. My father told me the justification for Manitoba was during World War 2: if soldiers are old enough to kill someone, then they're old enough to drink. But the teacher emphasized other countries; in many third world countries you're considered adult at 16 or 17. And you're required to get a job. This isn't so much different from our country. People were considered adult and required to get a job at a much younger age many years ago. In fact, my mother pointed out when she was young, getting a full education was considered to be completing high school. You couldn't get a good paying job unless you complete high school. Today many employers treat college as if it's high school.

And to further emphasize the point, my own great grandmother came to Canada as a mail order bride at age 14. Married at age 15. That was over a century ago. I'm talking about my mother's, mother's, mother. My grandmother was born in 1908, so her mother got married some time before that. This isn't that long ago.

One "issue" in society today is "teen pregnancy". The reason this is an issue is that the human body is fully adult and ready to be a parent at age 16 or 17. Hormones drive you to procreate at that age. It's instinct, that's what we're made for. To put it in religious context, that's what God intended. Postponing it means violating God's plan. The reason teenagers are so rebellious is that's nature's way of telling them it's time to leave their parent's house and start a household of their own. It's instinct. Fighting against that means fighting against nature. Or again to use religion, you're fighting against God's plan. The fact most teenagers in North America are not ready to handle the responsibilities of adulthood demonstrates a great failure.

Try remembering what it was like when you were that age. When I was young, I and my fellow students noticed the opposite sex in kindergarten. Didn't know what to do about it, yet. They get interested in the opposite sex by grade 5. In grade 9, they were seriously interested in sex. Most didn't do anything about it, just dating and kissing, but were interested. Do you remember how passionate you were at that age?

I read an article in the news paper in the late 1990s, titled "Lock up your sons". It pointed out that the '60s was supposed to be the age of sexual liberation, but in the '60s and '70s, 10% of girls completed high school no longer virgin. But in the '90s, the proportion that were no longer virgin was over 90%.

Are you still trying to tell teenagers they're supposed to be chased? Virgin? That argument has a snow ball's chance in hell. This issue has come up with local community organizations. They didn't want to listen to me either, but condescending to teenagers is a sure way to get them to ignore you. My recommendation is do not tell them they're just children. Do not condescend. Instead talk to them as adults: adult to adult. Point out they have to get a good paying job to provide for a baby. To get a good paying job in today's society, you have to complete school. And that's not just high school, today that means either university or trade school. A job in the trades is perfectly fine, but these days the trades demand a community college diploma. You have to get something. So make a plan. Use contraception. Delay children until you graduate.

Furthermore, if you plan to just go on welfare, you will find welfare case workers are far worse than teachers. You think teachers condescend? I've worked for city welfare. Actually, I had to receive provincial welfare myself. Those case workers are far, FAR, worse than any high school teachers. In fact, many are middle age and bitter. If they see you as a teenager with a spouse and child, when they're middle age, working full time, and they don't have that? They will try to find any excuse to take your baby away from you. (For many case workers this is an exaggeration, but true for a few. The point is to scare them.) The only way to ensure they can't do that is to get a job, support yourself. And a good paying job requires completing your education. School is not about "mind control", it's about giving you the tools you need for a good paying job. If you want to get out of school as soon as possible, then graduate early. That's possible. It's more work now, but then you're out'a here! Ask your teachers how. It's they're job, and most teachers will be willing to help you do the extra work so you can graduate early. If they won't then talk to your school councillor. If that doesn't work, then talk to me. We'll ensure you can do the extra work so you can graduate early. (In reality, most teachers love students who want to learn and ask for extra school work.)

Yes, my approach is to link pregnancy to school. My approach is there's nothing wrong with teen pregnancy, the issue is to graduate before getting pregnant. I think this approach would be far more successful. But most adults who want to treat teen pregnancy as an issue, don't want to listen to this. I don't know anyone who has taken this approach. So they complain that nothing they do works.

So, Tom, you're one of those people who wants to tell others that they have to remain celibate. You live in the country that most loudly talks about freedom. The preamble of the American Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." So why do you think you have the right to dictate who can love whom, when and how?

Last edited by RobertDyck (2014-05-31 04:47:51)

Void · 2014-05-30 05:51:01

Ok, for Clark, and to confuse things

Last edited by Void (2014-05-30 12:14:25)

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-30 06:01:53

The thing is Robert, if your a teenaged boy, that's one thing, but if your a teenaged girl that's quite another. As a teenaged boy, you can get a teenaged girl pregnant and walk away, the girl however is stuck with the child you got her pregnant with, so what it means for girls is they cannot complete their education if they get pregnant, the boy gets off scot free and can get another girl pregnant. This discriminates against girls, and it seems to me that an even handed approach would be not to allow sex before 18. The consequences are vastly different for the boy an the girl. If the boy does not use a condom and the girl is too drunk to care, then the girl gets pregnant and the boy walks away, goes to another party and gets another girl pregnant. There are no physical consequences for the boy or the man than gets a teenaged girl pregnant, unless the authorities can make consequences for them, and that is only if they can identify who the father is and catch him, which is not always the case. I'd much rather boys be taught not to go around getting girls pregnant at drunken parties, I don't think that is a nice thing to do. Sex is serious business, it creates children, one should not do that unless one is prepared to be responsible for them, and by that I don't mean paying for the abortion. Abortion is a big deal, 50% of my country thinks its wrong, so I think the matter of teenaged sex and pregnancy should be treated seriously. I don' want my son to be getting girls pregnant and I don't want my daughter to be pregnant when they are just kids.

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-05-30 06:06:43

Void wrote:

Such morality is a hygene calculation.
Before VD in Europe, permiscuous behaviors were more allowed. Later, with VD, the only hope was to use social pressure to reduce the prevelance of the disease.
The human has stages. From birth to >= 8 years old, hetrosexual in nature. And they do have imaginary sexuality. It is necessary to imprint them, so when they become adults, they (Typically) lean towards hetrosexuality. From puberty to the completion of puberty, homosexual, but in the majority of cases that has to do with friends, not actual sexual behavoiors. After the completion of puberty, then Hetrosexual again (Typically).
This makes sense because it keeps down the prevelance of VD in the young population, and it reduces the chances of a premature pregancy, one which could be dangerous to the participants.
Other that that rules made are about marketing sexuality in our culture. Pimping women, and exploiting men for their sexual desires. Although I will allow for the notion that a women might be best finished with an education before she elects to seek to have children.

Women once pregnant can't change their minds, they are in that condition until their either have the child, miscarry or have an abortion, and I don't approve of abortions, I don't think a human life should be disposed of so lightly, especially since it was created so lightly in an unthought out sex act!

RobertDyck · 2014-05-30 08:42:20

Make Love, not War.

Tom, did you read what I wrote about "Lock up your sons?" The girls today are more aggressive than boys.

Clark, sorry. I'll try to post poetry or lyrics.

clark · 2014-05-30 11:00:34

This *is* poetry! Or at least performance art.

Here we are, at the pinnacle of modern science and technology, using this brilliant communication medium to debate. Teen age pregnancy. In a thread that began with a poem.

Silly screaming monkeys with silver toys they do not understand.

Void · 2014-05-30 12:17:19

I modified my post, perhaps you will tolerate this being here, if not I will delete it for you.
http://poetinthecity.wordpress.com/2011 … -counting/

Weeping tears an a forever night.
Gliding on the mirror of dark sky.
Waters wavering reflections.
But none of them banana's, only lights.

Last edited by Void (2014-05-30 12:29:08)

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