What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

Tom Kalbfus · 2013-12-22 21:23:11

Should we bury him on Mars?
Cremated him on Mars?
Bury him in space?
Or return him to Earth for burial?

Terraformer · 2013-12-23 05:41:05

Space burial will eventually result in cremation, but it might take a spacecraft with it...

The first two options are the only realistic ones - well, you could return the body, but why would they be on Mars if they didn't have a connection to the planet? If it's a colonist we're talking about, they'll be planning to be buried or cremated on Mars; if it's a crew member... well, what was the standard procedure from navies, before they could fly the body out?

Quaoar · 2013-12-23 10:31:55

Terraformer wrote:

Space burial will eventually result in cremation, but it might take a spacecraft with it...
The first two options are the only realistic ones - well, you could return the body, but why would they be on Mars if they didn't have a connection to the planet? If it's a colonist we're talking about, they'll be planning to be buried or cremated on Mars; if it's a crew member... well, what was the standard procedure from navies, before they could fly the body out?

It's not possible to return the body in a 180 days mission, unless the ERV is so big to have a morgue. Oxigen is too precious to waste it for burning. So two option:

1) buring him/her after sealing in a plastic bag

2) putting him/her in a compost tank and recycling to fertilize the crops of the green house.

SpaceNut · 2013-12-23 11:06:24

Choice numbered in order of preference...

#1

Cremated him on Mars?

Crematory Chamber feeds sabetier reactor so nothing is lost.

#2

Should we bury him on Mars?

Simple bag and bury with a marker is waste of materials.

#3

Bury him in space?

Waste of launch vehicle and fuels.

#4

Or return him to Earth for burial?

Waste of launch vehicle, fuels and return vehicle.

JoshNH4H · 2013-12-23 15:36:17

I would say that if a crewmember dies she should simply be buried on planet. I don't expect there to be a crematorium available and there is something to be said, however dark, for being the first person buried in space.

louis · 2013-12-23 18:52:46

Well I am hoping Mars is going to an interesting place. Maybe once it has established its own culture it may develop its own rituals. Why not cremation in the sun - to be propelled on a trajectory that will take the body (enclosed in a pod) directly to the surface of the sun.

JoshNH4H · 2013-12-23 20:23:19

Well that is rather expensive as far as burial ceremonies go, costing probably about thirty kilometers per second. I think Tom was talking more about the first mission, though. I would think that the method of choice would be to drive them far from the hab,then bag and bury m

Terraformer · 2013-12-24 08:22:22

Of course, if you can 'merely' get the body close to the sun, it will still turn into a comet.

If we're talking about established space burial, why not encase them in ice and leave them as a comet?

JoshNH4H · 2013-12-25 02:33:28

Well, getting it close to the sun is much the same in terms of deltaV as actually hitting it.

I'm sure the Martians will come up with all sorts of creative death rituals. Recycling the body always seemed like a good one to me but if course there are others. launching it on a trajectory to burn up in the Martian atmosphere is good. Less kosher, so to speak, would be to feed it to livestock, or even perhaps close friends and family. You are disgusted,I presume, but it's certainly not impossible to imagine that there could be symbolic significance.

Then again, that is probably unsanitary for the same reason we don't eat sick animals.

Decimator · 2013-12-26 11:08:47

JoshNH4H wrote:

Well, getting it close to the sun is much the same in terms of deltaV as actually hitting it.
I'm sure the Martians will come up with all sorts of creative death rituals. Recycling the body always seemed like a good one to me but if course there are others. launching it on a trajectory to burn up in the Martian atmosphere is good. Less kosher, so to speak, would be to feed it to livestock, or even perhaps close friends and family. You are disgusted,I presume, but it's certainly not impossible to imagine that there could be symbolic significance.
Then again, that is probably unsanitary for the same reason we don't eat sick animals.

Cannibalism is a bad idea for disease reasons, not just the squick factor, as you said. Watching pigs eat your son's body can't be good for morale either. Burying the body in a greenhouse or composter seems like the best option. If you bury the body in the greenhouse, you can still have a traditional funeral, you'd just need to use a biodegradable container of some sort. Dumping dirt on your dead son's uncovered face would, again, probably be bad for morale.

The main issue with straight burial is you still have bones floating around in the dirt. I don't know that grinding the body up before burial would really be acceptable to their kin.

Terraformer · 2013-12-26 11:30:42

Cremation followed by grinding up the bones, and recycling into the soil?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-03 08:09:54

Colorado’s first dedicated 'green cemetery' helps people return to the earth once they’ve passed

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/rocky-mount … ve-passed/

On the subject of bones,

I know its grim but in pagan times sometimes little was wasted, they were used as musical instruments for thousands of years, Human Skulls became the frame of a drum then were covered with a skin, the femur tigh Bone Flute is one of the Oldest Instruments on Earth.

Sheep Bone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMy40pYdP4c

Jiahu Flutes thousands of Years Ago in China Used Red-Crown Crane wing bones, Elephant or Mammoth Ivory may have also been used as Flutes, some Antique Piano Keys are Ivory, most Piano keys after the 1960s stopped using Ivory, the Black Eyes were Ebony Wood and the Tree is becoming more rare, most keys today are molded plastic.
A rib cage could become a type of Xylophone Idiophone Glockenspiel or series of Lithophones, Resonant rocks might also be used instead of ribs.

Bear was a common animal used in instruments, Divje Babe flute is a cave bear femur pierced by spaced holes that was unearthed in 1995 during systematic archaeological excavations led by the Institute of Archaeology of the Research Centre of the Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts, at the Divje Babe I near Cerkno in northwestern Slovenia. They believe it could have been made by Neanderthals as a form of musical instrument, and became known as the Neanderthal flute. The artifact is on prominent public display in the National Museum of Slovenia in Ljubljana as a Neanderthal flute. As such, it is the world's oldest known musical instrument
https://web.archive.org/web/20170103002 … 33&lang=en

Researchers show human remains were 'kept as relics' in Bronze Age
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new … ronze-age/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-03 08:27:14)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-08 08:52:56

if someone dies beyond Earth

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/What … h_999.html

Death on the Moon and Mars
As a space medical doctor who works to find new ways to keep astronauts healthy, I and my team at the Translational Research Institute for Space Health want to make sure space explorers are as healthy as they can be for space missions.
Here is how death in space would be handled today: If someone died on a low-Earth-orbit mission - such as aboard the International Space Station - the crew could return the body to Earth in a capsule within a matter of hours.
If it happened on the Moon, the crew could return home with the body in just a few days. NASA already has detailed protocols in place for such events.
Because of that quick return, it's likely that preservation of the body would not be NASA's major concern; instead, the No. 1 priority would be making sure the remaining crew returns safely to Earth.
Things would be different if an astronaut died during the 300 million-mile trip to Mars.
In that scenario, the crew probably wouldn't be able to turn around and go back. Instead, the body would likely return to Earth along with the crew at the end of the mission, which would be a couple of years later.
In the meantime, the crew would presumably preserve the body in a separate chamber or specialized body bag. The steady temperature and humidity inside the space vehicle would theoretically help preserve the body.
But all those scenarios would apply only if someone died in a pressurized environment, like a space station or a spacecraft.
What would happen if someone stepped outside into space without the protection of a spacesuit?
The astronaut would die almost instantly. The loss of pressure and the exposure to the vacuum of space would make it impossible for the astronaut to breathe, and blood and other body fluids would boil.
What would happen if an astronaut stepped out onto the Moon or Mars without a spacesuit?
The Moon has nearly no atmosphere - a very tiny amount. Mars has a very thin atmosphere, and almost no oxygen. So the result would be about the same as exposure to open space: suffocation and boiling blood.
What about burial?
Suppose the astronaut died after landing, while on the surface of Mars.
Cremation isn't desirable; it requires too much energy that the surviving crew needs for other purposes. And burial isn't a good idea, either. Bacteria and other organisms from the body could contaminate the Martian surface. Instead, the crew would likely preserve the body in a specialized body bag until it could be returned to Earth.
There are still many unknowns about how explorers would deal with a death. It's not just the question of what to do with the body. Helping the crew deal with the loss, and helping the grieving families back on Earth, are just as important as handling the remains of the person who died. But to truly colonize other worlds - whether the Moon, Mars or a planet outside our solar system - this grim scenario will require planning and protocols.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-03 05:35:18

Burning the person to ash and then firing that ash up into space seems like a bad way to deal with remains

Greeks see the place now as an expensive site to die, new Tax guides for Greece

in Japan a nation gets older, high population density clusters in cities and with little free land available

'Long burdened by costly funerals, Japan embraces simple goodbyes'
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/ … ral-costs/

Why Are Japanese Funerals So Expensive?
https://www.tokyoweekender.com/japan-li … expensive/

'Green'
https://www.treehugger.com/green-burial … st-4862155

Himalayas
https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-08- … layas.html

Antarctica
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2018 … cas-deaths

Another expensive burial is the building of crypt within a mausoleum is the chamber that holds the remains of the deceased, the physical structure that commemorates a deceased person or a group it will be expensive. Yet can it make money? however if this person is a significant character of history it may attract 'tourism' that word mausoleum is from Greek from the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus but borders change and now controlled by invader islamic Turkmenistani cultures, the British Empire the Canadian Eaton family mausoleum at Mount Pleasant Cemetery in Toronto Ontario, the Soviet Communists and islamics also noted for building Mausoleum, ancient people of Egypt and China digs and finding what seemed to be underground cities, art, culture, Pharaoh, bloodlines of monarchs, first Emperors, in Taiwan a National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall, the Mausoleum of late President Chiang Kai-shek, Valle de los Caídos in Spain, Al-Khazneh at Petra Jordan, Presidential memorials in the United States Grant's Tomb in New York, Massey Memorial in Wellington New Zealand, Chico Xavier popular Brazilian philanthropist and 'spiritist medium' who wrote a lot of strange stuff, Hamilton Mausoleum in Scotland, .

Colchester Gazette readers on rising funeral costs
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/241 … ral-costs/

What is cost of average funeral in France?
https://www.connexionfrance.com/practic … nce/654785

Two arrested over 'prevention of lawful burial' as 34 bodies moved from funeral parlour
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/18758 … s-arrested
A 46-year-old man and 23-year-old woman have been arrested on suspicion of prevention of a lawful and decent burial, Humberside Police confirmed

Here's how some Chicagoans are taking an eco-friendly approach to funerals
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2024/ … cemeteries

About 60% of people are interested in exploring green funeral options, more than ever before.

not just leaves or grass or old food or tree cuttings, the idea of Composting is the process of recycling organic waste, like food scraps and yard trimmings, into a fertilizer.

The green burial movement, which is at the forefront of human composting
https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/g … re-what-is

From death comes life': The human composting campaigners lighting the way to a greener afterworld
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/02/ … ener-after

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-03 05:46:39)

tahanson43206 · 2024-05-03 06:15:41

For Mars_B4_Moon ....

Thanks for bringing this important topic back into view on several occasions...

For Terraformer ... I've arranged for cremation of several pets over the years, and received the ashes without thinking about the process.

Your suggestion that grinding bones might be necessary caught me by surprise.

I had (somewhat naively to be sure) thought that burning a body leaves nothing but ashes, just as burning wood leaves nothing but ashes.

For Mars_B4_Moon ... in scanning your posts I did not see the suggestion of just parking the body outside the space vessel. It might be enclosed in a plastic bag for appearance reasons. The volatile components should dissipate into space, but freezing might occur first. In any case, whatever remains should become part of the destination to contribute to the store of precious minerals needed to sustain life.

It is probably time for a more thorough examination of the subject, unsettling as it may be to some.

(th)

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#1 2013-12-22 21:23:11

What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#2 2013-12-23 05:41:05

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#3 2013-12-23 10:31:55

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#4 2013-12-23 11:06:24

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#5 2013-12-23 15:36:17

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#6 2013-12-23 18:52:46

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#7 2013-12-23 20:23:19

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#8 2013-12-24 08:22:22

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#9 2013-12-25 02:33:28

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#10 2013-12-26 11:08:47

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#11 2013-12-26 11:30:42

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#12 2022-06-03 08:09:54

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#13 2023-08-08 08:52:56

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#14 2024-05-03 05:35:18

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

#15 2024-05-03 06:15:41

Re: What if someone dies on Mars, what should be done with his remains?

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