Ionic wind ...

karov · 2013-04-23 06:27:39

... for pressurization or/and atmospheric retention...?

http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/04/mit-ex … hrust.html

I reckon such plasma-to-neutral "hybrid" systems could be very useful for airconditioning ( cooling, warming, chemical separation )(?) on grander habitat scales - super-domes, mesh worldhouses / tents, "virgas" / gasbags, tensegrity floating spheres ... all of more then dozens to thousands of miles of linear sizes.

Ionic wind curtains - vertical, horizontal, domed...

Last edited by karov (2013-04-23 07:27:24)

Void · 2013-04-23 08:59:16

I have wondered if this could be converted into a space propulsion. Of course you would need to bring the gasses with you where there is no atmosphere, but also I am thinking that those can be more normal gasses.

For instance for Mars, could you bring dry ice up from the surface as a propulsion gas?

Venus, extract it from a floating location in the atmosphere, and use it in orbit?

Could you exhaust water vapor from ice from ice worlds such as Ceres?

Could you reduce space rocks, and exhaust whatever gasses that produces?

The point of advantage, is that for Mars for instance for a mission, you do not have to capture Methane and Oxygen for a return trip to Earth, but Dry Ice. Of course this may not work at all for getting it to orbit. (Unless you used a high pressure CO2 steam rocket).

That might be a possible trick some day, high pressure steam of CO2 or Nitrogen to get to orbit, and then ionic propulsion somehow adapted to vacuum (I mention again, that the propulsion gas would have to be stored on the spacecraft).

qraal01 · 2013-04-23 15:41:09

Void, we already have ion drives. This system is an inside-out ion drive, using the atmosphere as working fluid. A space version is the enclosed grid system that is used on a variety of satellites for station-keeping and on a few space-probes, especially "Dawn". There's nothing new or novel in the concept - Robert Goddard experimented with an ion wind system back in 1916.

Void wrote:

I have wondered if this could be converted into a space propulsion. Of course you would need to bring the gasses with you where there is no atmosphere, but also I am thinking that those can be more normal gasses.

Void · 2013-04-23 16:57:36

Hmmm... Yes, but that was assumed.

But one that works with atmospheric gasses, and can propel a small plane, which indicates significant wattage, that is of interest.

An adaptation that might work with atmospheric gasses in space for instance.

Various schemes, how about the one where a rotating tether in orbit scoops atmosphere up to orbit to fill the tanks? Skyhooks having been considered by others, but why go all the way to the ground to pick up a fixed location object, when it would be easier to grab atmosphere.

And also the original content is of interest, since most planets don't have as good of an oxidizer for combustion as ours does.

Perhaps solar powered planes, or laser beam powered planes.

A line of related technologies for propulsion, not requiring noble gasses, or specifically manufactured fuel and oxidizer propellants.

I wonder how well an airship on Mars would work with the technology, particularly if it was solar powered, or Laser beam powered?

I do have significant background in electrical/electronics/Metrology/programming and so on, electrical machines are not alien to me, but I also do sometimes step into it anyway.

A friendly attitude is helpful for creativity, hostility shuts down the higher brain functions, and causes humans to revert to simple mammals or even reptiles. Not the best mode of process, except for short term survival situations.

Void · 2013-04-24 16:55:38

I can't resist one more post on that skyhook thing.

It has been observed that on Mars very large bubbles of gas get swept away from the top of the atmosphere. This is apparently associated with some locations on Mars where fossil magnetic fields exist.

I would like to contemplate a "Sky Touch" system rather than a Sky Hook.

Maybe it could involve a magnetic field, static electric collectors, and perhaps ionic wicking.

If I understand the skyhook, it would spin in a direction contrary to the orbital motion in such a way that when an arm of it touched the atmosphere, it might encounter it with a reduced speed, and perhaps zero relative speed.

I am recalling that some space probes to Mars have grazed the Martian atmosphere to circularize their orbits.

So, it seems apparent that a arm reaching into the atmosphere could be protected from destructive forces not only by having a reduced relative speed, but simply by not going too deep.

If the highest atmosphere is ionized then there is a hope to alter it's momentum with a magnetic device.

Capacitors, being electrostatic devices could collect and compress the thin gas.

A wick using electrical force up and down the length of a tether, could cause a ionic current flow resulting in the gasses collected at the arm being conducted upwards to the hub, where further treatment for the purpose of tanking it might occur.

Of course each touch and collection would lower the orbit of the device, so it has to be boosted upwards in orbit to compensate. For Earth this could be an interaction with the Earths magnetic field. For Mars and certainly Venus, that process would not work, so an interaction with the solar wind might do the trick.

Putting all of that together into one machine might be a complex problems though, but if achieved, perhaps a worthy accomplishment.

I think I will rest for a time.

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#1 2013-04-23 06:27:39

Ionic wind ...

#2 2013-04-23 08:59:16

Re: Ionic wind ...

#3 2013-04-23 15:41:09

Re: Ionic wind ...

#4 2013-04-23 16:57:36

Re: Ionic wind ...

#5 2013-04-24 16:55:38

Re: Ionic wind ...

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