Livestock

RobertDyck · 2012-07-15 13:50:54

I've long discussed in-situ resource utilization, including and especially life support. One thing we need for a permanent settlement on Mars is food. That requires a greenhouse. I have also pointed out each pound of meat requires several pounds of feed, and animal feed is typically the same vegetables and grain that we eat. Initially, it will be far more efficient to just eat a vegan diet. However, eventually a Mars settlement will grow sufficiently large to afford barns and large greenhouse farms to produce fodder for livestock.

The next question is how to get livestock there. A few years ago scientists made a significant breakthrough with hibernation. Hollywood likes to talk about cryogenics, which means freezing a person solid. In real life that doesn't work. Ice crystals form in the blood and body fluids; that ice pierces cells like a knife. I saw a video of one researcher who immersed a ground squirrel in liquid nitrogen. My grandparents had a farm in Saskatchewan, Canada; we called that animal a gopher. I since learned people in Ontario use the name "gopher" for a much larger animal, and that smaller thing they call a ground squirrel. Whatever, this scientist used one of those small animals. In the video he tapped the squirrel with a metal spoon to demonstrate it was frozen solid. He then thawed it, and the animal came back to life. It scurried around for a while, but after just 20 minutes it died. The ice had caused massive internal bleeding. Ok, not something we want to do to a person.

I said the breakthrough was in hibernation. A scientist found if you expose a laboratory mouse or rat to 80 ppm (parts per million) hydrogen sulphide gas (H2S), and reduce O2, and increase CO2, and drop the ambient temperature, the animal will drop its core body temperature to 2°C. Yup, that's just 2° above freezing. Well, salt in the blood would allow a couple degrees more before freezing solid, but +2°C is as far it went. At this temperature metabolic activity dropped so far its oxygen consumption reduced to 10% of normal. For science fiction fans, that means aging also drops to 1/10th the normal rate. However, that means an animal in hibernation will still age 1 year for every 10 years in hibernation. They then tried this with larger animals. They tried with a rabbit: it required more H2S gas, and they were only able to drop the animal's body temperature to +5°C, but it did work. They had trouble getting this to work with larger animals. One university tried with piglets, but they failed to reduce O2, failed to increase CO2, and most importantly failed to reduce ambient temperature. They're experiment failed to reduce body temperature at all. However, I consider the experiment contaminated because they failed to duplicate all the required conditions.

Another scientist tried this with deer, elk, and moose. With these larger animals, he used a much more aggressive technique. He replaced 50% of the animal's blood with saline. That's salt water, with concentration of salt equal (or close to) the concentration in blood. It worked, but he found 10% of the animals failed to wake up, they died. And of the 90% that did survive, 30% experienced severe brain damage. They became lethargic, standing around doing nothing but eat and shit. Obviously this is not something we could do to an astronaut, but it is acceptable for livestock. We could transport calves, young cattle newly weaned from milk, so they eat just grain. If 10% die upon arrival on Mars, then astronauts get a veal dinner. Of the surviving livestock, if they just stand around eating and shitting, then that makes them much easier to handle. For livestock, that's a good thing.

One reason for transporting livestock in hibernation is so they don't freak-out in zero-G. You don't want a panicky cow in your space capsule. Another reason is to reduce life support consumables, a hibernating animal consumes 10% oxygen, and no water or food, and you don't have to worry about animal waste (manure and urine). The reason for a calf instead of full-grown cattle is to reduce transportation mass, but the animal can't be reliant on milk. After all, milk comes from cows and we're talking about transporting the first cattle, so there just won't be any.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2012-07-15 16:45:49)

RobertDyck · 2012-07-15 13:54:03

This brings me to the reason for this post: Chickens

I have long said we could transport live chicken eggs. My idea was to transport fertilized chicken eggs in a refrigerator, with each egg cushioned in foam, and the refrigerator on shock absorbers. Design it so you just turn a dial to change the fridge into an incubator. Hatch chicks, raise a flock of chickens. Transporting eggs is the ultimate in compact storage. However, some people claim that eggs are not viable after refrigeration.

Ok, so I looked this up on the internet. There are many agricultural universities with lots of information on the web. Unfortunately, the result isn't exactly what I need. You can store fertilized eggs between 55°F and 65°F (13°C…18°C) , and the extremes are 46°F…72°F (8°C…22°C). Outside that will cause embryo mortality. Humidity must be 70% to 80% relative humidity. And never wash fertilized eggs; a freshly laid egg has a membrane that protects it from infection. Water will remove this membrane, and infection can pass through pores in the shell. Eggs can be stored for up to 3 weeks, and storage beyond 7 days should be in a plastic bag. The bag prevents moisture loss/gain and keeps out infections. Store eggs with the pointy (small) side down, and "rotate" them if stored for more than 7 days. Because the big end must always be up, this "rotation" is simply by changing angle. One suggestion is place a block of wood under one end of an egg carton, and every couple days move the block to the other end. A university document says eggs stored over 10 days should be tilted over 90°. That means tilt eggs 45° one way, then 45° the other, moving them once or twice per day. This movement prevents the embryo from sticking to the shell.

Incubation: gradually increase to room temperature in 4 to 8 hours. Then place in a commercial incubator, where it will warm to 99.5°F to 100°F (37.5°C). Humidity is measured in a strange way: something called "wet bulb temperature". In the incubator it should be 86°F to 88°F (30°C) wet bulb temperature. For chickens, transfer to a "hatcher" at 18 days. Hatcher temperature 98.5°F and humidity 90…94°F wet bulb temperature.

This raises a problem. Storage of only 3 weeks is not enough to get to Mars. Furthermore, documents say number of eggs that hatch will decrease after 10 days storage. Time in storage can be increased by using the low temperature end of the scale, but still the maximum is 3 weeks. But it takes 6 months to get to Mars.

Reference: Texas A&M University

Last edited by RobertDyck (2012-07-19 20:14:33)

louis · 2012-07-15 16:52:38

Doesn't sound like there is a way round the egg issue.

It might make more sense to bring livestock direct to Mars - small animals. Something about chickens and feathers puts me off introducing them into closed, confined pressurised habitats. Also, I think there is always an issue with cross-species infections with birds.

My favourite early adopter solution for Mars is the guinea pig - a delicacy in South America where I think they are bred to be bigger than pet guinea pigs.

GW Johnson · 2012-07-16 23:51:53

Here's an odd thought, applicable to mammals, anyway. Not so sure about birds and reptiles or fish.

Ship the livestock as frozen embryos in LN2 cold storage. Thaw and raise in a lab on Mars. Once the herds are started, shipment of live animals on Mars is no more time-consuming than truck shipment here.

They already do it with humans in the in-vitro fertilization thing.

GW

louis · 2012-07-17 02:18:49

GW Johnson wrote:

Here's an odd thought, applicable to mammals, anyway. Not so sure about birds and reptiles or fish.
Ship the livestock as frozen embryos in LN2 cold storage. Thaw and raise in a lab on Mars. Once the herds are started, shipment of live animals on Mars is no more time-consuming than truck shipment here.
They already do it with humans in the in-vitro fertilization thing.
GW

I think with all mammals you have to replant in an adult, so you need at least one adult...plus the medical set up to do the implanting.

But your mention of reptiles made me think of amphibians, frogs, which are of course a delicacy in France and allegedly taste like chicken. I did eat frogs legs in Paris once but they were so heavily seasoned I wouldn't be able to say if they tasted like chicken.

Maybe there is an amphibian whihc will grow in water from a frozen embryo (spawn or whatever) and which would give a good deal of meat, which could be added to stir fries and similar.

NeoSM · 2012-07-17 19:19:00

Thought this could be relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9XtK6R1QAk

Mammals don't seem to take to zero g very well ^ watch above video, so there would have to be serious thought put into hibernation/ stasis - or better yet just spin the ship and produce artificial gravity (which is the most likely outcome).

louis also brings up an excellent point with the chickens - infection and hygiene in a closed life support system would be an issue
he also brings up another great point in using small mammals - mammals with a high reproduction rate - rabbits, guinea pig ect. are more likely to be the first livestock on mars (very minimal space needed, very easy to breed, and in the case of guinea pig - tastes like chicken (don't take my word for that; never tried it))

orionblade · 2012-07-17 22:34:05

I raise chickens, currently. Woot.

Here's a thought... Chicken eggs are full of water, essentially. If that's all you're transporting, then why not do a relatively small rocket with a few dozen eggs (the chickens will be laying six months after hatching, so as long as you have six months, you're OK...) and go for a continuous-thrust, high-power ion thruster... the payload would be measurable in kilograms, and with a 1g acceleration, and turning around halfway to Mars, you could have the whole package in Mars orbit in 72 hours... but i don't know of any thrusters that could do that... without ridiculous levels of power... i think the best ion thrusters now are about .02 lbs of thrust on 2000+ watts...

Has anyone run the numbers?

We have only three weeks... 60 million kilometers... but WAIT! we have a slight time advantage... it takes 21 days for an egg to hatch, once it's brought up to incubation temperature... so we can kill the freezer at just shy of 3 weeks, and we have another 3 weeks before the little buggers start popping out... and the chill time will give us an extra buffer, since chilled eggs tend to hatch slightly later than under-chicken-butt eggs... and all we have to do is spin the module with the eggs in it and we've got something close to Mars gravity with little or no effort... so let's run the math and see what kind of acceleration we need to get there in 6 weeks with a negligible payload... and have chickens hatching (hopefully) soon after touchdown... unless we had a little space station in orbit around mars that could capture them and feed them, and then drop them to the surface along with the next crew... hmm... but that's later... let's see what kind of acceleration we'd need.

Let's just go with Newton on this one, and linear kinematics (just assume a straight line shot to Mars near closest approach) even though we'll be doing a rather more curved path in reality, we'll get an order-of-magnitude number:

3,628,800 seconds in 6 weeks...

if we're doing a turn-around-halfway-there approach, that's 1,814,400 seconds...

Overestimate to 7e7 km... half would be 3.5e7 km

If we assume we're in LEO, then launching our eggs from about 200km, that's roughly 7km/s initial velocity...

and we're solving for acceleration, so for the first half of the trip,

s=Vt+.5at^2 becomes...

(s-Vt)/.5t^2=a

[(3.5e10m)-(7e3m/s)(1.8e6)]/[.5((1.8e6)^2)]= .0076

.0076m/s^2

someone please check my math?

Assuming a 500kg of non-payload junk, and a 20kg payload of two dozen chicken eggs and the rack to hold/rock them, and we only use vehicle spin for a modicum of "gravity"... this would be a whopping 4 newtons of thrust for three weeks, followed by another 4 newtons of thrust for three weeks, then aerocapture from our original ~7km/s that we didn't bleed off in the second three week thrust phase...

Maybe we'd need more spacecraft mass just to make 4 newtons worth of ion thrust for the payload, but this is a startlingly low acceleration... seems like it might be slightly feasible. Or just barely not.

thoughts?

orionblade · 2012-07-17 22:37:59

Oh, and there's always tilapia (bland, not great on nutrients) and arctic char... kind of like a cross between salmon and trout... freshwater fish... great for aquaponics, grows relatively fast, and has a pretty decent lipid profile (ALA's and Omega 3's, etc.). I'm pretty sure the eggs can be frozen... and in any case, they don't need much space for weeks and weeks and weeks until they get past fingerling size... THAT might give us enough flight time to bring the thrust requirements down to a reasonable level for a small, low-cost, continuous-thrust "quick trip"...

GW Johnson · 2012-07-18 01:54:16

Shipping livestock is no problem in a big nuclear pulse propulsion (old Project Orion) atomic ship. That is the kind of ship you need to plant colonies anyway. I'd go for about 20,000 tons, built of steel armor plate, in something resembling a marine shipyard. Launch it just once. Leave it in space and re-use it for a century or two as an orbit-to-orbit transport. Build single-stage re-usable "landing boats" for it that are powered by solid core nuke rockets. Ship huge herds of any critters you want, anywhere you want to go. These ships are big enough to spin for 1 full gee about the long axis, not head-over-heels.

GW

RobertDyck · 2012-07-19 01:32:20

That's a good point. Since an embryo can be frozen in liquid nitrogen, when thawed it's still alive and viable. So why can't we freeze chicken embryos? The egg basically is its whom. Why can't we freeze a whole fertilized egg in LN2? orionblade, you raise chickens currently. Any way to test it?

It might be a matter of mass, too much wet mass results in ice crystal formation that slices live cells like a knife. So could we isolate a chicken embryo, freeze that in LN2, then when thawed transplant into an egg? Freezing kills an egg, but could we transplant a live embryo into a frozen/thawed egg? That means breaking open a small portion of the egg. Sounds tricky and would have to be done in sterile medical conditions. But simply dipping a whole egg into LN2 sounds easier; perhaps something one of us could try.

louis · 2012-07-19 02:27:35

RobertDyck wrote:

That's a good point. Since an embryo can be frozen in liquid nitrogen, when thawed it's still alive and viable. So why can't we freeze chicken embryos? The egg basically is its whom. Why can't we freeze a whole fertilized egg in LN2? orionblade, you raise chickens currently. Any way to test it?
It might be a matter of mass, too much wet mass results in ice crystal formation that slices live cells like a knife. So could we isolate a chicken embryo, freeze that in LN2, then when thawed transplant into an egg? Freezing kills an egg, but could we transplant a live embryo into a frozen/thawed egg? That means breaking open a small portion of the egg. Sounds tricky and would have to be done in sterile medical conditions. But simply dipping a whole egg into LN2 sounds easier; perhaps something one of us could try.

I think that was the whole point of his comment - freezing had been tried and had failed. My suspicion is that by the time and egg has formed the embryo itself is well developed.

This needs researching some more!

orionblade · 2012-07-19 09:05:26

I think the problem is the ovalbumin. That's why frozen, say, egg beaters, don't taste so hot... weird mouthfeel? It's the LONG complexes of albumin that got denatured by the freezing temperatures. Never quite comes back. As far as transplantation... or testing of freezing... I can check with my graduate advisor since he's done cell culture related stuff.

Wow. That sounds terribly technical. "cell culture stuff"... *facepalm*

But anyhow, timeline wise it should be possible to freeze the embryo... I'm just not sure how you'd implant it into another egg unless you genetically modified a hen to lay eggs with zippers on them.

o.O

The embryo will be about a quarter to half the size of a grain of normal white rice by the time the egg is laid. I don't think that in itself poses problems. Just access through a rigid shell, which Mother Nature failed to provide with an emergency induction port.

As soon as these chickens are laying, I will attempt a test... I do not have a rooster, so I may see about testing it with a friend's eggs... might be crossing his rooster with my hens next spring, since Americauna/Barred-Rock crosses lay OLIVE GREEN eggs. I mean seriously, how can I resist? CAMO! lol...

Louis: the proto-chicken is ~24-30 hours old, since chickens tend to lay eggs about the same time every day. They don't, however, always lay one egg per day. It's essentially a daily menstrual cycle.

orionblade · 2012-07-19 16:43:01

I stand corrected. My chicken expert informs me that you can freeze whole eggs. She will be trying this for me soon with a few fertilized eggs. I will update you shortly.

louis · 2012-07-19 17:48:58

orionblade wrote:

I stand corrected. My chicken expert informs me that you can freeze whole eggs. She will be trying this for me soon with a few fertilized eggs. I will update you shortly.

Sounds interesting! Real experimentation is a good idea.

Number04 · 2012-12-02 14:54:00

What about using the animals for more than their meat? Chickens can lay eggs, goats can provide milk, and llamas can produce wool. Maybe silk worms should be considered for their production. An animal’s companionship might also be considered with the isolation factor. An arctic char might be a good protein source, but not a very good a providing cuddles.

RobertDyck · 2012-12-18 11:48:08

orionblade wrote:

I stand corrected. My chicken expert informs me that you can freeze whole eggs. She will be trying this for me soon with a few fertilized eggs. I will update you shortly.

It's 5 months now. How is it going? I mentioned this experiment at local chapter meetings; a couple members have asked what's happening. I sent a you couple private messages, but no response. Are you still there? If it didn't work, that's a result. We're all very interested.

SpaceNut · 2020-09-25 19:58:28

MyHacienda topic that groups animal husbandry for cattle, swine, goats, chickens, sheep....and many more for getting general farming for mars

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-26 05:39:43

For SpaceNut re #17

Nice to see this topic back in view!

I agree that the entire agriculture sector could (and should be) defined for the My Hacienda community. Since a plot is large ( a cube a kilometer on a side), there is potentially ample room for a variety of crops and livestock to be grown on each, just as has been the practice on Earthly farms for millennia. However, for the purposes of My Hacienda, it would make sense to list the specializations separately in order to fill out the 7800 categories.

Once we've achieved 7800 plot listings, it would then make sense to start consolidating.

At the rate we are going, it will be a decade from now before the entire PlotMaster is populated.

On the other hand, if we can find a way to pull individuals with the appropriate interests and (above all) imagination to take on design of a plot in the Mars context, the assignment of specializations could grow exponentially, much as an Earthly community develops specializations spontaneously and in parallel as market needs become apparent.

At some point NewMars will find a way to reach out to the rest of the global community to find recruits.

The only livestock I am aware of in My Hacienda right now is Terraformer and his vision of a sheep farm.

Edit#1: 0034 Swine 0035 Cattle 0036 Chickens

(th)

Void · 2020-09-26 15:14:25

OK, I will take a shot at it. I hope not to replicate other peoples works, but to find a useful method to add to those works.
I have Chickens, and Krill, maybe brine shrimp. I will try to explain why I think these may be valuable.
I am not a vegan or vegitarian, but think it would be nice if we could consider drifting towards more humain methods in farming, especially with animals. Still, for all the creatures to be mentioned, the life pattern is to be born, maybe to breed, and then to die and be eaten. Even we are eaten eventually if not sooner by microbes, or just oxidation. Our pattern in the material is temporary however we might wish to deny it. And it is a fact that we must get our daily bread some way, and it always involves interupting the life cycle of other organisms.
Here is something to look at. Rudimentary.

This may be BBCode compatible, I think.
So, the pyramid cave is something I like. Actually it might be best if it were a cone cave, with a much less sharper pitch. We have the benefits of an inclined arch, and also the ability to put supports in if needed from "Floor" to "Ceiling".
Of course this needs artificial lighting. Still, it has it's merits. Here I would indend to have bees, and chickens, and things that chickens eat. Probably a lot of flowering plants of whatever desire and ability.
I have been looking again at aquatic life, as I think that it can suit Mars to a large degree.
I just don't like the thought of eating bug juice, so shrimps although probabbly not that much different have attracted me.
Chitin and construction on Mars: (References)
https://www.universetoday.com/147876/ch … l-on-mars/
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/09 … udy-finds/
OK, enough in some articles it mentions chitin from insects and crustaseans. And so that is where I will go.
I was thinking of brine shrimp, and I do not necessarily abandon them, but then I segwayed to "Krill".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill
And here is a creature of interest in that family:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_krill
To get it short and sweet, could we arange for expansive tracts of ice covered water, where we could grow these on Mars? It would require correct types of salts, and a method to get light into the water through ice, and a covering which would protect the ice from evaporation.
But this cold blooded creature is very low on the food chain, and so would be very efficient.
And yes, perhaps Chitin from them as well as food.
Done.

There is more to say about Oxygen and the Martian environment, and microwave energy from space.

Done Done.

OK (th), picture is here, I done it.

Last edited by Void (2020-09-26 15:15:02)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-26 16:21:19

For Void re #19

Congratulations! You've "Done" It !!!!!

You've also added:

I have Chickens, and Krill, maybe brine shrimp.

We had chickens, but neither krill nor brine shrimp, or any ** other ** kind of shrimp, for that matter.

Those are worthy additions to the My Hacienda vision.

It will require some significant gathering of water to provide a suitable habitat for these (and related) creatures.

Fortunately, NewMars forum members have been hard at work, thinking about that problem for 20 years or so.

(th)

Void · 2020-09-27 10:09:02

(th), yes chickens already done. I note that bees are eaten in some cultures. Not my favorite choice, but if hungry.....

And the shrimp I have mentioned will have adaptation issues probably, but perhaps not insurmountable.

But not to be dismissed without a good look. As for large quantities of water, there are ice slabs as big as USA states on Mars, with significant depth. This might be an issue for Krill, as the Antarctic version goes very deep during its young part of it's life cycle, but maybe that is to escape predators, and they might adapt to shallower "Seas".

Void · 2020-09-27 10:11:29

(th), yes chickens already done. I note that bees are eaten in some cultures. Not my favorite choice, but if hungry.....

And the shrimp I have mentioned will have adaptation issues probably, but perhaps not insurmountable.

But not to be dismissed without a good look. As for large quantities of water, there are ice slabs as big as USA states on Mars, with significant depth. This might be an issue for Krill, as the Antarctic version goes very deep during its young part of it's life cycle, but maybe that is to escape predators, and they might adapt to shallower "Seas". Motabolism is slower at low temperatures, but that is not necessarily a show stopper.
Brine Shrimp have their pecularities. They escape predation by inhabiting waters that are unfavorable to their predators. However if given the chance they can inhabit less salty water free of predators, and use less of their biological resources to cope with heavy salt levels.
The brine shrimp molt several times before becomming adults. I presume the Krill may as well.
Krill are probably more Oxygen sensitive, Brine shrimp more tollerant I think although the prefere to dwell in blooms of algae.
The point here is that if you have say a low pressure greenhouse for them the rules of breathing may be different, if you largely exclude Nitrogen. Disolved gasses are there to the degree that there are "Spaces" for them. Cold water for the Krill will work better for that.
In both cases, Nitrogen would tend to displace the amount of Oxygen that could be disolved in the water to some degree. It is a very rough estimate but without Oxygen maybe almost as much as ~5 times as much Oxygen could be in the water, depending on other variables such as temperature and pressure conditions, I guess. (And I am doing a rough guess). So, this could be favorable for some methods of aquafarming of animals.
I believe I read one time that a turtle was subjected to a 50 mBar atmosphere and lived but it was lathargic. Surely it would have eventually died. I don't know if that was an Earth atmosphere mix or pure Oxygen. "Cold" blooded animals have an advantage as to not have blood boil as easily.
Both of these creatures produce "Chitin" which is aparently becomming of great interest for Mars. And so also for me.
------
So, if you remember the "Rock Band" called the Poo Beatles......
Actually, per Chitin, I have wandered into something I think will be new for you.
Dung Beatles:
I would not care to eat them. However similar to buzzards which might usually eat what is already dead, these things consume Dung, and do produce Chitin, I believe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dung_beetle
Quote:

Benefits and uses
Caution sign showing the importance of dung beetles in South Africa
Dung beetles play a role in agriculture and tropical forests. By burying and consuming dung, they improve nutrient recycling and soil structure.[29][30] Dung beetles have been further shown to improve soil conditions and plant growth on rehabilitated coal mines in South Africa.[31] They are also important for the dispersal of seeds present in animals' dung, influencing seed burial and seedling recruitment in tropical forests.[32] They can protect livestock, such as cattle, by removing the dung which, if left, could provide habitat for pests such as flies. Therefore, many countries have introduced the creatures for the benefit of animal husbandry. In developing countries, the beetles are especially important as an adjunct for improving standards of hygiene. The American Institute of Biological Sciences reports that dung beetles save the United States cattle industry an estimated US$380 million annually through burying above-ground livestock feces.[33]

So, a useful animal. Without predators would they eventually die of old age? Would that be humaine relative to killing them????
But doing it that way the Chitin could be eventually harvested without killing them. And I sould presume that Spacenut would be interested in the soil beneficiating aspects.
Plus you have to handle the feces some way anyhow, maybe these things could do big favors that way. I guess you would need to give them a suitable conditions to live, poo, and Oxygen.
And I suppose if you were starving you might make beatle soup, rather than choosing to die.
Lets hope the settlers will always have enough resources to not need to do that.
------
Chitin: This is a realy good topic to research.
It comes from many creatures that have exoskelitons, some of them are insects.
Aparently there can be some in some types of Mushrooms.
It can aparently be made to be transparent, and has been recommended for construction on Mars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin
Quote:

Chemistry, physical properties and biological function
Chemical configurations of the different monosaccharides (glucose and N-acetylglucosamine) and polysaccharides (chitin and cellulose) presented in Haworth projection
The structure of chitin was determined by Albert Hofmann in 1929. Hofmann hydrolyzed chitin using a crude preparation of the enzyme chitinase, which he obtained from the snail Helix pomatia.[3][4][5]
Chitin is a modified polysaccharide that contains nitrogen; it is synthesized from units of N-acetyl-D-glucosamine (to be precise, 2-(acetylamino)-2-deoxy-D-glucose). These units form covalent β-(1→4)-linkages (like the linkages between glucose units forming cellulose). Therefore, chitin may be described as cellulose with one hydroxyl group on each monomer replaced with an acetyl amine group. This allows for increased hydrogen bonding between adjacent polymers, giving the chitin-polymer matrix increased strength.

A cicada emerges from its chitinous larval exoskeleton.
In its pure, unmodified form, chitin is translucent, pliable, resilient, and quite tough. In most arthropods, however, it is often modified, occurring largely as a component of composite materials, such as in sclerotin, a tanned proteinaceous matrix, which forms much of the exoskeleton of insects. Combined with calcium carbonate, as in the shells of crustaceans and molluscs, chitin produces a much stronger composite. This composite material is much harder and stiffer than pure chitin, and is tougher and less brittle than pure calcium carbonate.[6] Another difference between pure and composite forms can be seen by comparing the flexible body wall of a caterpillar (mainly chitin) to the stiff, light elytron of a beetle (containing a large proportion of sclerotin).[7]
In butterfly wing scales, chitin is organized into stacks of gyroids constructed of chitin photonic crystals that produce various iridescent colors serving phenotypic signaling and communication for mating and foraging.[8] The elaborate chitin gyroid construction in butterfly wings creates a model of optical devices having potential for innovations in biomimicry.[8] Scarab beetles in the genus Cyphochilus also utilize chitin to form extremely thin scales (five to fifteen micrometres thick) that diffusely reflect white light. These scales are networks of randomly ordered filaments of chitin with diameters on the scale of hundreds of nanometres, which serve to scatter light. The multiple scattering of light is thought to play a role in the unusual whiteness of the scales.[9][10] In addition, some social wasps, such as Protopolybia chartergoides, orally secrete material containing predominantly chitin to reinforce the outer nest envelopes, composed of paper.[11]
Chitosan is produced commercially by deacetylation of chitin; chitosan is soluble in water, while chitin is not.[12]
Nanofibrils have been made using chitin and chitosan.[13]

------
I have wondered if something like Chitin could be grown in a "Vat", if you had a purposely induced cancer of it, where the Hayflick limit had been removed by genetic engineering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit
Something to be careful about though, dealing with any cancer. I believe we have on-going cancer cell cultures from humans that have lasted for a very long time.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-09-27 10:48:10)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-27 10:50:13

For Void re #21 and #22

Bees! and other important insects on Earth ... Thank you for this significant addition to the list of specializations.

The pollinating insects make growing of many crops possible, and their presence would/will lead to opportunities for crops dependent upon them.

Nice!

>> Set up bees and other pollinating insects

Related ... worms ... apparently there is some (scientific) dispute about worms for soil ... I read a piece recently that the presence of worms signals healthy soil, but that the worms themselves do not necessarily contribute to the health of that soil.

In any case, having earthworms present (to signal healthy soil) seems like a good idea.

Plus! Following up on Void's mention of insects as food ... worms are also accepted as nutritious food in some cultures.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-27 15:09:49

The correlation of Bee's and pollination of seed producing crops have been discussed in many a topic with various mechanical methods provided to move the pollin around.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-27 16:39:43

For SpaceNut re #24

OK ... thanks for the tip that the forum contains posts about alternatives to insect provided pollination.

I'll add "pollination services" as a specialization in My Hacienda. That phrasing will provide for both "natural" and "unnatural" pollination methods.

In "unnatural" methods I would include human pollination ... I read somewhere (a while ago) that in some situations kids (and presumably adults) have been pressed into service doing pollination when insect support is not available.

Robots would seem a likely approach to the problem. Recent announcements have shown significant progress in developing insect sized robots in the laboratory. Such devices might well be enlisted to provide pollination services in habitats away from Earth.

However, cute and clever as such robots might be, it seems unlikely to me they will produce honey.

(th)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2012-07-15 13:50:54

Livestock

#2 2012-07-15 13:54:03

Re: Livestock

#3 2012-07-15 16:52:38

Re: Livestock

#4 2012-07-16 23:51:53

Re: Livestock

#5 2012-07-17 02:18:49

Re: Livestock

#6 2012-07-17 19:19:00

Re: Livestock

#7 2012-07-17 22:34:05

Re: Livestock

#8 2012-07-17 22:37:59

Re: Livestock

#9 2012-07-18 01:54:16

Re: Livestock

#10 2012-07-19 01:32:20

Re: Livestock

#11 2012-07-19 02:27:35

Re: Livestock

#12 2012-07-19 09:05:26

Re: Livestock

#13 2012-07-19 16:43:01

Re: Livestock

#14 2012-07-19 17:48:58

Re: Livestock

#15 2012-12-02 14:54:00

Re: Livestock

#16 2012-12-18 11:48:08

Re: Livestock

#17 2020-09-25 19:58:28

Re: Livestock

#18 2020-09-26 05:39:43

Re: Livestock

#19 2020-09-26 15:14:25

Re: Livestock

#20 2020-09-26 16:21:19

Re: Livestock

#21 2020-09-27 10:09:02

Re: Livestock

#22 2020-09-27 10:11:29

Re: Livestock

#23 2020-09-27 10:50:13

Re: Livestock

#24 2020-09-27 15:09:49

Re: Livestock

#25 2020-09-27 16:39:43

Re: Livestock

Board footer