More on 3D printing...

louis · 2012-07-11 18:11:40

I've definitely become a 3D printing fan after a period of scepticism. The technology is now really delivering. This is an interesting story:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industrie … 56135298/1

It seems to me that a few 3D printers would be perfect for the early colonists, producing parts for agricultural and industrial uses.

The emphasis perhaps needs to be on producing the powdered metals and plastics that will be used.

How easy is it to replicate oil-based plastics through extraction carbon and hydrogen from water and Mars air, followed by combination? How do you get hydrogen and carbon to combine as a base for plastics? I'm looking into that but woudl be interested to hear people's opinions on that.

GW Johnson · 2012-07-15 09:08:11

Hey, that's pretty neat. I haven't kept up with this technology, so I don't know a whole lot about it. I do know it started out as plastics-only. It's very encouraging to see powdered-metal parts being made. Strength and stiffness are far superior that way.

I bet this technology continues to evolve. It would be really slick to see metal parts made with properties approaching those of a conventional cast or forged part. The properties of powdered-metal parts still fall short of that goal, I believe. Could be wrong, but I don't think so, not yet.

With powdered-metal printed parts and tools, there's some real promise for replacing massive infrastructure with relatively small equipment and software. That's the very thing we need to set up permanent bases and colonies on Mars and elsewhere.

I like it.

GW

louis · 2012-07-15 17:53:16

GW Johnson wrote:

Hey, that's pretty neat. I haven't kept up with this technology, so I don't know a whole lot about it. I do know it started out as plastics-only. It's very encouraging to see powdered-metal parts being made. Strength and stiffness are far superior that way.
I bet this technology continues to evolve. It would be really slick to see metal parts made with properties approaching those of a conventional cast or forged part. The properties of powdered-metal parts still fall short of that goal, I believe. Could be wrong, but I don't think so, not yet.
With powdered-metal printed parts and tools, there's some real promise for replacing massive infrastructure with relatively small equipment and software. That's the very thing we need to set up permanent bases and colonies on Mars and elsewhere.
I like it.
GW

I have read that the steel used in some swords produced in the medieval period was as good and strong as anything produced in modern steel factories. I take some comfort from that. I am fairly confident that we can create high grade steel in small scale furnaces with modern methods.

GW Johnson · 2012-07-16 14:08:38

So am I (confident of high-grade steel in small batches by more-or-less conventional methods). Maybe not by 3-D printing. But then, who knows what they'll come up with fairly soon?

GW

Glandu · 2012-07-25 07:41:35

louis wrote:

(.../...)
I have read that the steel used in some swords produced in the medieval period was as good and strong as anything produced in modern steel factories. I take some comfort from that. I am fairly confident that we can create high grade steel in small scale furnaces with modern methods.

This I agree. But you have to remind that it was a matter of weeks to build one single sword of that quality. The tough part will be to scale up. (my guess here is that we will send a few of bug machines ina few flights, & with them create all others needed. But we need the first few ones imported, should be cheaper than recreating them from scratch on-site)

For the 3D-part, they still don't give any example of heavily-mechanically-stressed part. Where they begin to shine of for parts where shape is more important than mechanical properties. And they will even more. Yet, I have to see a poppet valve made in 3D. I'm not sure we'll see soon.

And there will be also need for that kind of parts. In a mechanical system, machining quality may improve a lot the energetic efficiency. Surface quality, especially, can't compare. For a stirling engine, for example(I know pro-solar energy people here think about them), the better the surface of the cylinder is, the more efficient it will be. 3D printing is pixellisation of the steel. You don't make circles as good in pixels than with a compass for drafting.

Bottom line is that we will probably need both, for different usages. The ability to make very complex shapes will probably be useful for fluid management(for example). Yet, standard, older methods will still be critical where mechanical properties or surface quality will be critical.

louis · 2012-07-25 18:10:49

Glandu wrote:

louis wrote:
(.../...)
I have read that the steel used in some swords produced in the medieval period was as good and strong as anything produced in modern steel factories. I take some comfort from that. I am fairly confident that we can create high grade steel in small scale furnaces with modern methods.
This I agree. But you have to remind that it was a matter of weeks to build one single sword of that quality. The tough part will be to scale up. (my guess here is that we will send a few of bug machines ina few flights, & with them create all others needed. But we need the first few ones imported, should be cheaper than recreating them from scratch on-site)
For the 3D-part, they still don't give any example of heavily-mechanically-stressed part. Where they begin to shine of for parts where shape is more important than mechanical properties. And they will even more. Yet, I have to see a poppet valve made in 3D. I'm not sure we'll see soon.
And there will be also need for that kind of parts. In a mechanical system, machining quality may improve a lot the energetic efficiency. Surface quality, especially, can't compare. For a stirling engine, for example(I know pro-solar energy people here think about them), the better the surface of the cylinder is, the more efficient it will be. 3D printing is pixellisation of the steel. You don't make circles as good in pixels than with a compass for drafting.
Bottom line is that we will probably need both, for different usages. The ability to make very complex shapes will probably be useful for fluid management(for example). Yet, standard, older methods will still be critical where mechanical properties or surface quality will be critical.

I can't say on the basis of my limited knowledge of the subject that I don't disagree with anything you say - I think we will proceed along separate lines - 3D and traditional furnaces. We will deploy people with craft skills but also use sophisticated CNC lathes and robots to help us reach high quality in production.

Last edited by louis (2020-01-14 05:51:37)

SpaceNut · 2020-02-04 22:09:07

Edinburgh-based satellite launch firm Skyrora has completed a week of static horizontal firings of a "Breakthrough" 3D-printed rocket engine tests completed in Fife, Scotland

3D-printed 3.5kN LEO engine, which will be used to power the final upper stage of its 22-metre tall XL rocket.

Skyrora's eco-aviation fuel named 'Ecosene'; a high grade fuel made from waste plastics which aims to minimise the environmental impact of rocket launches.

Skyrora means Ecosene will be able to produce 600kg of usable kerosene from 1000kg of certain waste plastics in the space of 24 hours.

https://www.skyrora.com/

kbd512 · 2020-02-05 01:25:20

I think we should add printing of fiber-reinforced plastic parts stronger than Aluminum to our list of required technologies for Mars:

Mark3D - 3D Print Stronger Than Aluminum

Although I think it's over-exaggerated for effect, the time and cost differential on the machining operations is still considerable. In general, any complex part will generally be faster to print than to machine.

Think about all the hand tools, furniture, and vehicle structural parts that could have strong but reasonably lightweight parts made from fiber reinforced plastic. If the finished part is made with resins that can withstand brief exposure to moderately cryogenic fluids, then we could also have a cheaper / faster alternative to hand-layup of composites and welded alloy or steel propellant tanks.

louis · 2020-02-05 07:09:13

Interesting - could be just the sort of technology the Mars community will need to be able to launch their own satellites into LMO.

SpaceNut wrote:

Edinburgh-based satellite launch firm Skyrora has completed a week of static horizontal firings of a "Breakthrough" 3D-printed rocket engine tests completed in Fife, Scotland
3D-printed 3.5kN LEO engine, which will be used to power the final upper stage of its 22-metre tall XL rocket.
Skyrora's eco-aviation fuel named 'Ecosene'; a high grade fuel made from waste plastics which aims to minimise the environmental impact of rocket launches.
Skyrora means Ecosene will be able to produce 600kg of usable kerosene from 1000kg of certain waste plastics in the space of 24 hours.
https://www.skyrora.com/

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#1 2012-07-11 18:11:40

More on 3D printing...

#2 2012-07-15 09:08:11

Re: More on 3D printing...

#3 2012-07-15 17:53:16

Re: More on 3D printing...

#4 2012-07-16 14:08:38

Re: More on 3D printing...

#5 2012-07-25 07:41:35

Re: More on 3D printing...

#6 2012-07-25 18:10:49

Re: More on 3D printing...

#7 2020-02-04 22:09:07

Re: More on 3D printing...

#8 2020-02-05 01:25:20

Re: More on 3D printing...

#9 2020-02-05 07:09:13

Re: More on 3D printing...

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