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karov

Member

From: Bulgaria

Registered: 2004-06-03

Posts: 953

Impact Ejecta

Guys! It seems that interplanetary collisional catastrophes are indeed interstellar and even intergalactic life proliferation mechanism!

http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.1719

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27092/

http://arxiv.org/abs/1108.3375

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SolSys escape velocity is 16km/s.

Ejecta from 25 sources can saturate the Milky way galaxy since formation.

They deem intergalactics of panspermia taking too much time ... BUT:

1. SolSys escape velocity takes 20 000 years to cross a light year, i.e. 1-2 billion years to cover the whole galaxy.

2. 25 sources = 1 source ... after million years ->2 sources ... after million years -> 4 sources ... after million years -> 8 sources ... in fact the multiplication / exponentiation factor is much greater than 2.

3. the overwhelming majority of interstellar bodies / planemos...

AND

4. the 4-5% c catapulted planets and stars from the central galactic black hole slingshot.

These facts and figures assign probability near to 1 / 100% for seeding of billions of light years accross the universe ( 10^27s cubical ly ) PER EACH SINGE even of occurence of life wherever it happens ... which implies that for the whole universe of 90-100 billion ly accross it is enough the life to occur ONLY once since the formation of the universe PER supercluster complex ...

Interesting. If Nature can do it with dozens of km/s or dozens of thousands of km/s imagine what WE can do with better level of implementation of information and greater speeds.

clark

Member

Registered: 2001-09-20

Posts: 6,374

Re: Impact Ejecta

Great. tell the folks at SETI that they are wasting their time. I'll let the folks know not to expect a Christmas card from ET this year.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,820

Re: Impact Ejecta

So then Ancient E.T. might choose to leave a legacy by messing with and inventing transmissable organisms?

Should Seti be looking for messages in the DNA of primitive organisms that don't evolve very fast?

Very Funny Ancient E.T.!

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karov

Member

From: Bulgaria

Registered: 2004-06-03

Posts: 953

Re: Impact Ejecta

Well,
Guys, even if the Earth-type of life have so much thoroughly infected the whole universe ( no matter where the starting point was ), than the communicability of the "civilizations" is matter of evolutionary EXPONENTIAL dynamics, too.

See: http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/04/robin- … is-of.html and the ppt file in it. This is more digestable and well / simply , visualized same principle encountered by so many scholars, philosophers and scientists in the last couple of hundreds of years...

-> billions of years monocellular to multicellular
-> hundreds of millions of year multicellular to brains
-> ... brains to society of sentients
-> agriculture
-> industry
-> ... doubling rates of weeks, days, seconds ...

Given that there is dozens of millions of times more SPACE going from human scale DOWN towards Planck scale than going from human scale UP into the expanses of the Universe, and that there are dozens of millions of times more Planck "moments" into a second than seconds in the lifetime in the Universe ... the ETs could be very much biased towards compactification and CREATING their own infinite realities, than to conquer the vasts.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,820

Re: Impact Ejecta

What are E.T.'s motivations?

Let me know if I deviate too far from your notion of what this thread is about.

I really have a problem with the notion that robots would replace humans.  I would be more inclined to think that a robot would want to aquire human properties, and a human aquire robot properties.

Some believe that electronics could evenutally emulate a brain exactly.  I am not so sure. The substances must have different inherant properties.  Especially if quantum effects are a part of the human mind.  However I could certaily be shown wrong on that.

My next move into advanced alienhood, would be to have my skull bone replaced with a computer, or a computer cap you could put over your existing head.  I am presuming that this would involve a computer with atomic level switches.  This would be integrated into the brain, as the next layer. 

So, as far as robots being more intellegent than humans, the big question is just how intellegent do you want a "Person" to be?

Compactness?  I just read an article which suggested that the ability to 3D print physical objects is going to change the notions of business, and industry around the planet.  These are the objects to be printed from plastics and metal powders.

For North America it is suggested that much less would be brought in from China, and that much would be produced locally, very locally.

You suggested that E.T. may not be all that interested in conquering endless expanses of space.

I think that whatever humans may turn into, E.T. could also turn into, so in the end the civilzations would produce similar beings.

I think that the polyneasian model is the one E.T. might choose.  Settle a certain number of star systems, so that when one dies, another is in the process of a revival.  This then gaurantees a continuing heritage.

But since there would be no boundries, until a rival E.T. group would be encountered, then there would be a certain amount of leakage where misfits and malcontents would go to the edges and move to unoccupied terratory.

As for compactification, I get the notion of large bee's nests?  Full of E.T.'s?

For efficiency, humans could modify their human forms to be the size of hobits or smaller for efficiency, and yet be intellegent due to a skull cap computer agumentation?

The questions are; How many Cyborgs(Humans) are enough?  How intellegent is intellegent enough?  Won't they get bored if they have mental capacities which far exceed their challenge?  Who is going to play on the playground?

In the end arn't we all just looking for a good time?  By my judgement no sane being should say "I want to suffer in hell forever".  No they usually want to go to heaven and be happy.

So isn't happiness what we want and also E.T.?

And to the original subject, common microbes, and perhaps in some cases parallel conditions, and so parallel evolution. 

To far from us to mate with directly, but if each creature has RNA/DNA and two civilizations met, might they just decide to artificially build "Children" creatures, and populate some star systems with them, by grafting capabilities from both races into the "Children".

I don't see that it is necessary to have alien E.T.'s seeking the elimimination of those who do not resemble them.

Machines only?  Why?  If a machine species, then most likely it would seek to add cellular machinery to it's "Children".

I hope I did not get too far off track.

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clark

Member

Registered: 2001-09-20

Posts: 6,374

Re: Impact Ejecta

all so riveting.

But nothing what so ever to do terraformation.

karov

Member

From: Bulgaria

Registered: 2004-06-03

Posts: 953

Re: Impact Ejecta

all so riveting.

But nothing what so ever to do terraformation.

Oh, yes. This post is directed towards showing that IF Nature makes it , than WE could do it even quicker. To infect a pristine environment with Earth-type of bio-replicators which leads to similar biosphere IS terraformation. Panspermia gives us the notion of "natural terraformation".

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,820

Re: Impact Ejecta

Clark, I thank you for your guidance.   I see that you have been here a long time, and I would never want to mess up what others have made.

However, Karov and Terraformer say a lot of interesting things, some times seeming very far out, and sometimes even impracticle, but that is only our preception.  A new thing is usually poorly crafted at first.  Hard work makes it into something that people take for granted.

I was attempting to establish a scaffold for connetion to Karovs thinking, which I have a hard time understanding sometimes.  I did throw a bunch of leads out there.  I wanted to see of Karov would reject them or not, that would help me understand what he is driving towards.

You are correct, this material is hard to place for a location here.  I guess if you guys wanted to you could say that things must be only about Mars, but I will respectfully and weakly suggest that:
1) If pan spermia is in fact a natural process, then Mars likely was involved with it, and had life or has life, related to that of Earth and other places.
2) By contemplating expansion of humans to Mars, we are apparently taking the first baby steps towards a possible future which would involve interstellar civilization, and by speculating on what existing alien civilizations may have done, we can speculate better on the future of our "Kind?" and I guess how Mars might best fit into that progression.

In spite of my arguments, however, I respect your concerns and complaints.

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