Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

louis · 2012-03-28 11:37:03

Looks like this work by MIT could be really important on Mars -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 094615.htm

These designs would flatten out the power output - giving a lot more power earlier and later in the day.

Void · 2012-03-30 16:32:32

Thats a good one. My only concern is keeping the more complex surface from the accumulation of dust.

To protect from dust, I suggest a greenhouse at near ambient pressures to encase the solar panels. While I am aware that that would deminish the output from the cells, I will suggest a side process that might justify this loss, and turn it into a gain.

In the bottom of the greenhouse a tray which can contain a weak alcohol solution to be evaporated by the collected waste heat.

An electric pump would collect the concentrated alcohol vapors, and force a condensation into metal tubes immersed in water tanks. The water tanks would be used to supply heat for living confort, particularly at night, and perhaps bathing water, or alternately aquariums to grow organisms.

I am going to post an article which suggests where this alcohol might come from.

Last edited by Void (2012-03-30 16:35:48)

louis · 2012-03-30 16:52:00

Void wrote:

Thats a good one. My only concern is keeping the more complex surface from the accumulation of dust.
To protect from dust, I suggest a greenhouse at near ambient pressures to encase the solar panels. While I am aware that that would deminish the output from the cells, I will suggest a side process that might justify this loss, and turn it into a gain.
In the bottom of the greenhouse a tray which can contain a weak alcohol solution to be evaporated by the collected waste heat.
An electric pump would collect the concentrated alcohol vapors, and force a condensation into metal tubes immersed in water tanks. The water tanks would be used to supply heat for living confort, particularly at night, and perhaps bathing water, or alternately aquariums to grow organisms.
I am going to post an article which suggests where this alcohol might come from.

From my reading I think the main dust problem diminishes rapidly above 18 inches on Mars.

I am not sure your rather elaborate structures are required but I would be interested to hear where you will get your alcohol from!

Void · 2012-03-30 17:04:26

Well perhaps dust is not a normal issue except during global dust storms.

Anyway I like the solar collectors you presented inside of or outside of an enclosure.

As for the side process, that can also occur without the solar colectors in it's greenhouse or with them in.

These are options, and a mission to Mars is long away from now.

louis · 2012-03-31 05:47:12

Void wrote:

Well perhaps dust is not a normal issue except during global dust storms.
Anyway I like the solar collectors you presented inside of or outside of an enclosure.
As for the side process, that can also occur without the solar colectors in it's greenhouse or with them in.
These are options, and a mission to Mars is long away from now.

I hope now that Musk and Space X are making such progress it is not too far away. Maybe within the next 10-20 years. Probably a Space X led Consortium including NASA and ESA.

Of course we need a secure and dependable power supply when we go to Mars. I think the PV panels on the rovers show that they are dependable in that environment, despite no "hands on" maintenance.

But beyond that I agree we need to experiment with various configurations including greenhouses, solar collectors, power storage through methane production etc.

Void · 2012-03-31 08:10:29

I agree, to the limits of Chaos, it is best to explore options and keep them available, since modification/adaption plans for human presence on Mars are in their very early days

One thing I am beginning to have greater awareness of is a time period division. 1) When tools and materials used are dominantly those carried from Earth/Moon and/or (Earth/Moon)/(Phobos/Demos). 2) when tools and materials are dominantly those produced on the surface of Mars.

So the tool kit for the first minute on Mars is one thing.
The tool kit for the first hour is another.
The tool kit for the first day,
The first week,
The first Month,
The first Year,
The first Decade,
The first Century,
and beyond.

So, each need has it's own options, some have been considered and some still need to be "Discovered".

I think that sometimes confilict comes from two or more people thinking of solutions for different time scales.

They can both be right, but might still confilict, not understanding the time scale intended by the other.

Yes, I hope Musk is all what he seems, he has to be something else already to have achieved what he has. Let's hope is that good still, and even better.

Last edited by Void (2012-03-31 08:23:51)

louis · 2012-03-31 16:47:25

Void wrote:

I agree, to the limits of Chaos, it is best to explore options and keep them available, since modification/adaption plans for human presence on Mars are in their very early days
One thing I am beginning to have greater awareness of is a time period division. 1) When tools and materials used are dominantly those carried from Earth/Moon and/or (Earth/Moon)/(Phobos/Demos). 2) when tools and materials are dominantly those produced on the surface of Mars.
So the tool kit for the first minute on Mars is one thing.
The tool kit for the first hour is another.
The tool kit for the first day,
The first week,
The first Month,
The first Year,
The first Decade,
The first Century,
and beyond.
So, each need has it's own options, some have been considered and some still need to be "Discovered".
I think that sometimes confilict comes from two or more people thinking of solutions for different time scales.
They can both be right, but might still confilict, not understanding the time scale intended by the other.
Yes, I hope Musk is all what he seems, he has to be something else already to have achieved what he has. Let's hope is that good still, and even better.

I think people will be surprised how quickly we can move to production on Mars to fill perhaps of 95% of needs in terms of mass. I think the main things that won't be produced are medicines, medical equipment, computers and circuitry.

I do agree however that people do tend to forget about the timeline when arguing over what is appropriate. For instance I think it makes sense to import PV panels for the first few years but then the Mars colony ought to produce its own energy generation equipment using solar reflectors (e.g. aluminium sheets) heating boilers to run steam engines which in turn generate electricity.

I don't think there is any doubt about Musk's commitment to getting to and developing Mars. The main impediment in his way I think is possibly the professional jealousy of the folks at NASA.

Void · 2012-03-31 17:41:44

Perhaps they will instead be of great honor, and remeber what matters, the fact to good people have to sacrifice pride often to make their dreams come true.

Last edited by Void (2012-03-31 17:43:59)

louis · 2012-03-31 18:20:37

Void wrote:

Perhaps they will instead be of great honor, and remeber what matters, the fact to good people have to sacrifice pride often to make their dreams come true.

"Honour Before Pride" would make a nice motto for the mission.

SpaceNut · 2012-04-01 12:05:15

Timeline stuff again sure wish we had the treads from the crash period of Toehold that were a carryover from the Red Colony thoughts which were taking place when it crashed as well. MarsDrive does have some of this

I see that from the stand point of waiting for science mission to end and to get to the course of colonization/ settlement building to civilization on a new plant is really about how and with what we load the front end of the mission planning with stuff that we can adapt or use later....

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#1 2012-03-28 11:37:03

Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#2 2012-03-30 16:32:32

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#3 2012-03-30 16:52:00

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#4 2012-03-30 17:04:26

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#5 2012-03-31 05:47:12

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#6 2012-03-31 08:10:29

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#7 2012-03-31 16:47:25

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#8 2012-03-31 17:41:44

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#9 2012-03-31 18:20:37

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

#10 2012-04-01 12:05:15

Re: Huge energy gains for Photovoltaic

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