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Wouldnt it take less energy to keep methanol warm than it would to electrolize water, and keep it gaseous?
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Neutrino, I love your idea of using a sail/balloon concept to propel a rover. There is only one problem I can see with the Windsurfer. This problem has everything to do with the balloon.
A helium filled balloon rises because it is less dense then the air around, to the degree that the air pushes it upwards. This is exactly the same reason why some things float in water. An object displaces a weight of water, equal to-or greater then the weight of the object, and thus it floats.
It is the same way with air/gas.
The low density of the Martian atmosphere will likely be a problem. What if Martian air is LESS dense then the helium?
Would the balloon not then fall to the surface?
On a world with a dense atmosphere though, the Windsurfer is a great idea!
In the interests of my species
I am a firm supporter of stepping out into this great universe both armed and dangerous.
Bootprints in red dust, or bust!
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The low density of the Martian atmosphere will likely be a problem. What if Martian air is LESS dense then the helium?
Would the balloon not then fall to the surface?
Since the pressure on Mars is lower than on Earth, the pressure inside the baloon would also be lower. If the helium inside the baloon has aproximately the same temperature and pressure as the CO2 outside the baloon, then the helium would be about 11 times lighter than the same volume of Martian air.
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Ah, I see.
In the interests of my species
I am a firm supporter of stepping out into this great universe both armed and dangerous.
Bootprints in red dust, or bust!
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I'm back; I morphed into a photon from a neutrino. I couldn't remember my password and I changed my internet provider so I had to assume another name.
We have done some tests on this proposal and presented it at the last Mars Society conference. A paper was presented to them soon after the conference. A proposal is in the works to apply for funding from NASA.
This is the web site where you can find it at [http://www.arrow-space-innovations.com]Arrow Space Innovations I posted a copy of the paper that is up for publication on that web site.
The Windsurfer will work on Mars by taking advantage of the wind currents above the surface because of a natural effect of the way the wind moves above the ground. The Martian boundary layer, 200 meters to 500 meters above the surface is where the wind speed is much greater than it is on the ground. This elevation is where the Windsurfer, balloon and dragchute would extract the most energy out of the wind. By just doubling the velocity of the wind we can extract 8 times more energy out of it, this is enough energy to pull the Windsurfing rover.
There are several different types of balloons this could be used with, zero pressure balloon, ULD balloon or a solar heated balloon. They all three have different requirements and durations.
Using the data we extracted out of the Viking and Pathfinder landers we have shown that this balloon dragchute rover design would move freely over Mars at those locations over 10 percent of the time. By doing this it could theoretically travel over 500 miles in a three week period at an average speed of 10 MPH for an average time of 2.4 hours per day.
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Grrreat! When i first time read this topic, months ago, i recall checking your profile, and seeing you didn't visit anymore, i thought that was a shame, for i liked the idea. Good to see you back, for sure.
Keep us posted!
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a very old thread perhaps worth a bump
the wind rider concept might work on Saturn's Moon Titan
Titan Mare Explorer (TiME) was a proposed design for a lander for Saturn's moon Titan, perhaps there could be a wind riding ship on its Lake and Seas.
Aerodynamics on the Titan Environment: Predicting Dragonfly lander Operations on Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuqWecEgT8M
TiME, a floating lander that would be dropped onto the surface of one of the largest lakes on Titan, was proposed by Ellen Stofan of Gaithersburg, Md.-based Proxemy Research and would be built by the Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Md.
https://archive.ph/20140215161242/http: … 0-1581.338
Both Comet Hopper and TiME were designed to carry a government-furnished power source known as the Advanced Stirling Radioisotope Generator (ASRG). The plutonium-fueled device, still in development, is expected to be four times more efficient than the current-generation nuclear battery that powers the Mars Curiosity rover, for example.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-11-28 07:44:43)
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