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#1 2008-05-07 08:25:59

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather and H2O,CO2 phase change

.


Part 1

I think to understand the water cycle on Mars we most look at the dynamic weather when we get the chance. cIclops post was indeed great and it deserves a good analysis.

One of the biggest problems with gray-scale is definition in what is dust and what is water clouds and or CO2. This image gives us a rare look at this process.

In the first image lets look at what is surface influenced and what is normal stratification and mid and upper level disturbances without surface dust interaction.

Area I- Shows mostly white mid and upper level clods void of surface dust. Two Low pressure or mid-level vorticity maximums with associated trofs.

Area II- Shows surface dust interaction in the mid and upper levels with surface Low that would be proof of convergence and lift associated with Earth type weather events. Discussion of convective complex and precipitants to follow with satellite bases surface analysis.

Vincent

Image 1-1

2472998857_ec997759f1_o.jpg


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-Dana Johnson

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#2 2008-05-07 09:05:27

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather and H2O,CO2 phase change

Part 2

To understand Mars weather and an obvious vigorous water cycle then this image should be self evident. Later I will try and tie in surface water and this image.

Some basic definitions. Phase change is just water going from various state like liquid to gas, evaporation. Gas to solid or liquid, condensation, solid to liquid, melting. Now the king on Mars is sublimation. That is going from a solid to a gas without ever being a liquid.

Definition of a cloud. A visible accumulation of water or CO2 vapor on condensation nuclei.

Now most people think of weather is what is happening outside my window and in reality I guess that is all that matters. The truth is the weather happens at all levels of the atmosphere with surface features being predominate in discussion. The image stuck me as being one of the best to depict convective process on Mars. That is what causes thunderstorms on Earth and it would appear the process is alive and well on Mars.

The next image will high light what we call convective complex or vertical development of clouds. On earth they are called cumulus clouds. I believe on Mars cirro-cumulous would be a better description

Image 2-1

Area I- These are areas of lift in the atmosphere or convective complex. Four are high lighted.

Area II- This is the most exciting because it denotes a cap or blow off at some level of the atmosphere. On Earth this occurs at the tropapause and denotes an inversion or area of warming in the Mars atmosphere like on Earth.

Vincent

Image 2-1
2473918794_9030c0839f_o.jpg


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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#3 2008-05-07 09:53:02

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather and H2O,CO2 phase change

Part 3

Surface analysis and proposed precipitation fields.

Now we can all agree that it snows on Mars. CO2 snow for the most part with dust and H2O as the primary condensation nuclei.

Definition- Condensation nuclei. On Earth and any place that phase change occurs then a substance needs something to condense on. On Earth it is primarily dust and salt or pollutants. Yes that is what is inside every snowflake , raindrop on Earth. On Mars H2O is also a nucliant. That’s what makes them there fans we see on Mars they love to call defrosting dunes.

The next image is my best WAG or wild *** guess as to what is happening on Mars. For you elitist it would be a hypothesis being rooted in knowledge or educated guess. In it I will include precipitation fields. Now I know they are occurring but how much is reaching the ground is unknown. I know they are occurring because I can see them. If someone wants to join in and get into some hardcore atmospheric sciences then I will salivate all over you, you magnificent soul.

To understand Mars weather we must first understand Earth Artic weather. It can snow in Antarctica without a cloud in the sky. Clouds denote a supersaturated state and heat. We know it is snowing there in this environment.

Image 3-1

Surface analysis standard of the National Weather Service. Green areas precipitation fields associated with atmospheric understandings.

Vincent

Image 3-1


2474011382_d9692ba038_o.jpg


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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#4 2008-05-07 10:22:37

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather and H2O,CO2 phase change

Part 4

Now lets tie it in to water and hydro-cycle. The first question is how do the polar images show white in this dusty environment. A question I asked myself. Nocturnal cooling and condensation is the only answer.

An active hydro-cycle with surface eruptions the only etiology. You must have replenishment in this environment or the dust will bury you.

Nocturnal or night time events would rule supreme. Nocturnal snow events with thermal gradient winds is the only answer. The next image illustrates this point. Frost no, snow yes.

I will be waiting or standing by to stand by for the US veterans.

Vincent

Image 4-1
2097182989_6ac773b15e_o.jpg


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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#5 2008-05-12 08:16:04

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather and H2O,CO2 phase change

Dr. Levin’s does understand atmospheric process and the water cycle on Mars today. This is a link to his rendition.

He states that the atmosphere is too cold to allow water vapor high into the Mars atmosphere. This would be correct. Phase change from a gas to a solid or liquid would release heat called the latent heat of condensation. The phase change of a solid to a gas or liquid would cool the atmosphere in a process called evaporative cooling.

The temperature would drop off rapidly a few feet of the ground in this thin atmosphere. A link to his theory.

Vincent
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article66.html


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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