Apartment Concept

akwx128 · 2008-05-07 14:06:17

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum, and very interested in the colonization of mars . I started this thread to explore other more advanced alternatives to living on mars (hopefully one doesn't already exist). I've found that there are many designs for 'colony' type settlements as well as the dome types. I haven't been able to find very many other alternatives, expecially in the case of surface dwellings.

The picture below shows a concept of what I mean. Although I like the idea of large cities sheltered by domes, they may not be practical for quite some time. A development such as the one below may allow a better transition. Manufacture and construction techniques could be perfected this way before undertaking large domes. Any ideas, suggestions?

The target population of the 'Pill Apartment' would be about 160 people. They should be able to produce about 25% of their food in the greenhouse (hydroponics). Water may be stored underground, as well as fungi rooms to further food production. Drifting dust will also not be a problem (except maybe near the garage). People would have a view of the surface, and not have to be in subterranean housing. It is nowhere near a final design, simply a concept. Apartments may be constructed as spheres, tori (toruses, I had to wiki it ). One third gravity makes elevated housing much more practical. Are there any other problems or advantages?

By the way, has anyone thought about dust removal from clear structures such as domes (especially zones)? It seems that this may best be done electrostatically in the martian atmosphere.

Thanks, and I can't wait to hear your responses.

akwx128 · 2008-05-07 14:08:06

It was my first post, and I couldn't link to a picture until my second so here it is:

I'll have to check the picture size rules.

noosfractal · 2008-05-07 15:34:05

Hi akwx128, welcome to New Mars!

What a great image. Thank you for posting it. The pill shape is very sensible for containing the very high relative pressure inside. That is one of the problems with domes - how to keep them anchored to the ground with all that pressure under them. I wonder, though, about the practicality of the two legs. If the pill were just resting directly on the ground - or even partly buried - you'd still get most of the benefits of the design.

For dust removal, maybe you could have simple robots, like those ones that clean pools.

akwx128 · 2008-05-07 16:14:48

Thanks for my first response noosfractal!

Those poles are very high. In reality I'd think the structure would only be a few metres off the ground. What concerns me about placing in on the ground is the risk of puncture of a pressurized plastic exterior (granted it could be glass). I'm also unsure as to the depth or soil. I've heard it's about 10cm. I've also heard that the fractured bedrock below is very difficult excavate (basalt?). Is this true? If so no excavation would be required if weighted 'feet' were added to the poles. In the case of a tarus with three or four poles it could literally just sit on the surface.

I was wondering about anchoring a dome at the perimeter into martian bedrock. Does this seem practical? If the rock is highly fractured, these anchors may be unstable. I've also been wondering about a 'heavy' dome. It would have glass panels, with a metal frame. Pressure would ensure the panels were sealed in plass. The weight of the dome along with perimeter and vertical interior anchors would hold it to the ground.

noosfractal · 2008-05-07 19:15:37

What concerns me about placing in on the ground is the risk of puncture of a pressurized plastic exterior

Oh I see, the poles relieve the outer shell of responsibility for any forces other than containing the internal pressure. I guess I've always thought that the shell is going to have to be so strong (plastic, glass or advanced composite) that it would be able to help out structurally as well. I must admit though that I haven't done any analysis.

I'm also unsure as to the depth or soil. I've heard it's about 10cm. I've also heard that the fractured bedrock below is very difficult excavate (basalt?). Is this true?

I think it depends on the location. Martian geology is quite diverse. Do you have a particular location in mind?

I was wondering about anchoring a dome at the perimeter into martian bedrock. Does this seem practical?

It's a popular scenario, but I'm not sure that anyone has researched just how practical it would be. Or even if we have the data we'd need to say definitively.

When I imagine dome construction. I imagine a steel (or carbon fiber) net anchored to bedrock, with the plastic shell (or balloon) underneath. Once you create any reasonable air pressure underneath the shell, the shell will inflate to whatever constraints the net places on it.

I've also been wondering about a 'heavy' dome. It would have glass panels, with a metal frame. Pressure would ensure the panels were sealed in plass. The weight of the dome along with perimeter and vertical interior anchors would hold it to the ground.

In that scenario, the glass panels wouldn't be helping hold down the dome, so the metal framework would have to be very heavy. I think I read here somewhere that you'd need 3 ft of regolith over the whole dome to counteract the internal pressure. One idea that was mentioned is to use 3 ft of water (which becomes ice, of course) instead - which gives some translucency and also provides some protection against the harsh environmental radiation.

akwx128 · 2008-05-07 21:03:00

Thanks again for the response.

At this point I am not thinking of any region in particular. It's unfortunate that there are so many things we still don't know about mars. We won't know the details regarding bedrock until we're there. That's where I'd like to be right now...

Anyways, I made two more 'apartments' and rendered all three in a scene, so that I could get an idea of what an expanding settlement may look like.

Another aspect of this concept that may be useful is the modularity of the design. All 'poles' could be made identical. The radius of every circle is 16m. The pill and torus may be expanded to any length desired.

BTW, I'm doing a concurrent in structural engineering and planetary science. Does this seem like a good choice for someone interested in mars?

louis · 2008-05-10 15:59:17

Lovely images!

Anything we build on Mars should ideally look good and these do!

Obviously not a candidate for early development. I would doubt anything like this would ever be built on Mars. I think we will find more efficient ways for creating "mini atmospheres" (e.g. closing over canyons or craters). Domes constructed of hexagonal or triangular panels remain favourite for intermediate development I would say.

However, let's run with your idea - how would you construct that huge glass or plastic dome?

akwx128 · 2008-05-11 14:38:38

The designs above are mainly just concepts. I had thought about covering them with triangular glass panels, but it was a little simpler to simply render them as a continuous plastic piece.

If such plastic coverings were to be manufactured, they could be produced in large sheets. These could be cut into the appropriate shapes and fused/glued together in a factory, or onsite to enclose the structure. When finished it would be pressurized and teams would search the interior and seal any leaks. If they were solid instead of flexible, modern acrylic manufacturing processes may need to be 'extended'. Two identical pieces could be produced. Everything would be prefabricated and then assembled onsite

To be honest, I am more in favour of glass. Plastic seems a waste of hydrogen when there is such an abundance of Si, O, and Fe.

What bothers me about domes is the issue of anchoring them. There are so many unknowns at this point in time. I'm thinking the best option might be a combination of the dome weight, and interior anchors weighted down by buildings (attached from top of dome to bottom of structures so concrete remain in compression). This way little excavation is necessary, and large amounts of cement are not wasted to anchor the dome. If this is not enough, perimeter anchors may still be necessary. After all the structural elements are completed, a water proof sealant would be applied over the bedrock and possibly at the edges of the dome. Otherwise the dome's edges may use a 'pressure seal'. the perimeter anchors could be attached to a structure other than the dome. When pressurized the dome will rise slightly, sealing the atmosphere in. Hopefully that was clear.

BTW, what kind of domes would produce the least variation in the size of triangular panels? I'm hoping to only have three steel member and glass panel sizes. I can't seem to figure out how to do this for larger domes with hundreds or thousands of panels...

JoshNH4H · 2008-05-11 15:24:47

welcome to newmars, akwx128

I would suggest something like the bottom right, except square. How are these with radiation protection?

akwx128 · 2008-05-12 07:19:07

I would suggest something like the bottom right, except square. How are these with radiation protection?

I'm curious as to why you would suggest the structure be square.

I am currently looking into the radiation issue. Unfortunately I'm having difficulty finding any consensus on actual values. Ultraviolet light will be blocked with the use of a thin film. The floors will also have shielding within them. This should be suitable for generally conditions. In the case of a CME heading towards the planet, a radiation shelter would be necessary which may prove to be a problem with plants in the upper level. What about a radiation blanket? It would be drawn over the structure in the case of a large solar event.

Where can I find more information on radiation levels from CME's, solar flares, and ambient radiation levels of the planet? Also, are the levels of cosmic rays similar to those on earth? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I was also wondering about radiation protection in general. It seems most structures are designed to absorb radiation. Is there no way to reflect it (all kinds)? This would hopefully allow for a much thinner radiation shields.

JoshNH4H · 2008-05-12 14:18:01

yes, cosmic rays would be more or less the same. Anything coming from the sun will be 45% as intense as it would be outside earth's mag field. I suggest a square because it is easier to build those. And I do have a suggestion for radiation protection: make 2 glass tops to the building, one about 1 meter higher than the other. Fill the space with potassium Iodide in water, at 1 g/ml, and you will get a good amount og radiation protection for everyday purposes.

louis · 2008-05-12 17:48:44

One method of dome construction could be to create a sphere resting in a hemisphere hollowed out of the regolith. This wouldn't need anchoring - water or regolith could be used as ballast at the bottom. Hydroponic farms using artificial lighting could occupy the lower levels of the sphere.

akwx128 · 2008-05-12 20:49:18

jumpboy11j:

I'm a little wary of the use of water because it's availability is so unknown at this time. If it does appear to be abundant, then this may work well. The pressure at the bottom (of the bottom right apartment) would be somewhere near 117 kpa (about 17 psi), which is high. The 6 million gallon Open Ocean Aquarium at the Georgia Aquarium features a 30ft tall acrylic wall. It's about 2 feet wide. The pressure at the bottom would be about 90kpa. Still 27kpa lower than the 'apartment'. So I'd also be concerned about how thick the glass would have to be (both layers). I'm not sure what the safety factor is for the Georgia panel. It is likely that it is atleast 25% wider than it needs to be.

The pressure would be the same regardless of the size of the gap between the two layers, as it only depends on vertical depth. Therefore something like this would work best with a zone, shorter apartments, or horizontal coverings (canyon?).

It would be more difficult to design because the inner portion would be in compression and the outer in tension. Most materials do not have matching strengths in both. Therefore the thicknesses, and possibly materials may have to differ. Both would also have to be fixed to one another so one doesn't 'float'. So very high strength materials would be needed for the connections. The 'pole' may prove to be enough but I haven't done any calculations. I'm not sure but I believe the solution of potassium iodide would reduce the freezing point enough that ice would not be a problem (depending on the location of settlement).

Maybe seperating the covering into horizontal compartments would work. The compartments would not have to carry as much pressure force (as long as they are not stacked) and could possibly be attached to a frame of vertical poles to distribute the weight to the ground. I think that would work and is probably the best bet. In that case it would be very practical (other than water scarcity IF it is an issue). Almost everything I mentioned would no longer be a problem. If there is damage to a portion it can quickly be replaced without exposing the population to radiation, or having to worry about large amounts of water loss.

I just noticed you said top in your post. Not entire shell. I've been typing for a while though so I figure I'll just submit. Good job me for being observant...

louis:

The solid dome makes the design much easier, but for large domes might be a nightmare to excavate. It may work very well in areas that had been used as open pit mines. This way most of the excavation would be completed. Maybe the excavated materials could be converted into construction materials. The long term plan for mines may be to house future domes.

It drives me mad that we aren't there now... :!: :x

Commodore · 2008-05-12 22:15:01

Some very nice images there akwx. What did you use to make those?

I'm sorry, I have to get this out of the way...

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones, but should get changed in the basement.

I particularly like the donut shaped one. Have you considered using modular, removable housing units, arrayed in a spoke pattern? How bout using the hole area as a multi level open area, using a series of mirrors to direct light to each level, and using the open area for recreation, agriculture, or grazing?

akwx128 · 2008-05-13 07:29:00

Commodore:

I used 3ds max 2009. The only effects are simple raytracing for the shadows, and a bit of fog.

So you would suggest using the entire structures above as open space, with apartments all around the perimeter attached to each level? Sounds like a good idea. I like the idea or removable housing units. Something similar to Jaque Frescos vision (http://www.thevenusproject.com/city_think/construct.htm). I also like the idea of prefab residences, even if only the 'case'. Surface transportation will require much less energy than on earth.

My train of thought has been to reduce the surface area in contact with the marshan atmosphere. This would reduce the area that can be breached and hopefully increase safety (also allowing more time to evacuate before the air has been exhausted). With several back up layers everything inside would not have to be made completely airtight. This translates into easier manufacture/construction.

Individual units on mars makes me nervous because residents may not be able to leave there apartment before it is too late. This could be remedied by sensors and a loud alarm system. Any thoughts on how to increase safety in the advant of a breach for individual units?

JoshNH4H · 2008-05-13 14:26:50

Yes, I meant that to be for the glass on top, because other shielding could be used lower down. Solid shielding could be used underneath.

And for an application as important as sheilding, it would be worth the water, even if you have to go to the nearest polar cap to get it. The KI would probably have to be shipped from earth for quite a while. Forget mars, they could build one of these anywhere in the solar system

akwx128 · 2008-05-13 19:05:26

jumpboy11j:

Fair enough It shouldn't be all that much water anyways as it's just the top. It would likely requires some support beams, but that shouldn't be a problem. The weight of the water in the top would be about equivalent to a 42cm layer or cement. This is quite doable.

BTW, here's an interesting link regarding a new material for radiation protection:
http://www.gizmag.com/demron-lightweigh … suit/9300/

JoshNH4H · 2008-05-14 14:13:52

Wow. 1-10 cm of that would be a great sheild. It seems to be a polymer. Do you think it's transparent to visible and infrared?

akwx128 · 2008-05-14 16:10:50

I really don't know. I tried looking through the manufacturer's website and found a study confirming the radiation blocking properties, but nothing in regards to appearance. Very interesting though...

louis · 2008-05-16 19:27:53

akwx -

Of course a crater is a good start in excavating the hemisphere to house a spherical dome.

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