Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

Byron · 2002-06-15 14:36:48

Here's something I've thought of a few times...Martian architecture, particularily when the settlers have progressed to the point of having large-scale (1km and up) domes or after terraformation.

I believe the low gravity on Mars will allow forms of building construction that would never be seen on Earth. I think we would see lofty, flimsy-looking buildings, with free-floating terraces all over the place. Inside a hypothetical 5 km wide, 1 km tall dome, I don't see why much of the vertical space couldn't be used for maximum benefit, and buildings could be hung down from the dome itself with nanotube cables, as the air pressure would be pushing up on it anyway.

This would eliminate the trouble of constructing foundations, load-bearing walls, etc, all the things that make houses and buildings such expensive endeavors on Earth. Heck, inside the domes, you wouldn't really need roofs, except for where privacy is needed, of course. Things like office and other commercial spaces could really just be a series of suspended, terraced slabs with glass walls all around, connected by a system of walkways. This would save on ventilation, lighting, etc, reducing the total amount of energy needed to sustain the community.

The possibilities of Martian architecture are endless...what do you guys think??

B

Palomar · 2002-06-19 16:29:29

Hi Byron:

I can't really take on this subject from a "mechanical" point of view, but I can from a more "artistic" point of view.

As for inner decor, what buildings are designed to look like from the outside, etc., here goes:

I'm sure that initially the buildings will be rather uniform and geared toward utility and function. However, if and when astronauts turn into settlers, particularly multi-generational settlers, I think the architecture or "style" on Mars will either tend toward (continued) functionality and be gracefully subdued -or- very innovative and unusual (maybe even "wild") colors and shapes will be used, particularly indoors. Probably the latter, in lieu of living in a place devoid of any flora or fauna except what's been imported from Earth or grown on Mars itself.

I guess I can't answer your question about *architecture* per se, but I've given thought to what private dwellings, work spaces, etc., will look like. I prefer splashy colors, textures, and shapes to monotony or the subdued.

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Phobos · 2002-06-19 19:14:36

I remember reading about one architect, whose name completely escapes me, that advocated an architectural system called arcology that was basically a pre-planned city that could pack a very high density population comfortably into a relatively small area. I thought his ideas were somewhat crazy, but now that I think about it, his ideas might make perfect sense for Martian architecture. He had a lot of very tall buildings with unique designs and transportation systems. I have to find that book so I can elaborate further.
How tall could you build a skyscraper on Mars before it ends up in outer space? Where does the Martian atmosphere end and space begin?

Aetius · 2002-06-19 20:10:27

As an admirer of the best of Classical civilization, I'd love to see Neo-Roman architecture enjoy a revival. Using native materials, and building designs adapted to .38g, architects could bring the same larger-than-life sensibility to Mars. Not that I want every city to look like the set of "Gladiator" (Rome Under A Dome), of course. I'm just not a big fan of modern skyscrapers. They seem too functional and unromantic to me, almost soulless. I also love bright, splashy colors.

I'm sure Martians would agree. Any color you want, just not that same shade of red.

Palomar · 2002-06-20 15:44:53

As an admirer of the best of Classical civilization, I'd love to see Neo-Roman architecture enjoy a revival. Using native materials, and building designs adapted to .38g, architects could bring the same larger-than-life sensibility to Mars. Not that I want every city to look like the set of "Gladiator" (Rome Under A Dome), of course. I'm just not a big fan of modern skyscrapers. They seem too functional and unromantic to me, almost soulless. I also love bright, splashy colors.

That sounds very interesting. Yes, I could see Neo-Roman architecture fitting in quite well on Mars.

I have to admit that when I think of human habitations on Mars, any practicality goes right out the window [pardon the pun] with me. As a kid I got hooked on the illustrations I'd see on the covers of paperback sci-fi books [whether I read them or not]. I want those huge, sparking glass domes; tube transportation; wide, spacious and clean walk-ways with patches of green grass and flowers here and there; lots of color; free-standing sculptures and paintings from any and all artistic disciplines mounted here and there, for everyone to view and enjoy; glistening water fountains; "open-air" patios strung with multicolor, twinkling lights; and no sharp corners to be found anywhere.

In other words, a sci-fi world ala 1967.

Ah well. Yup, I'm dreaming.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-06-20 15:49:28

I remember reading about one architect, whose name completely escapes me, that advocated an architectural system called arcology...He had a lot of very tall buildings with unique designs and transportation systems. I have to find that book so I can elaborate further...How tall could you build a skyscraper on Mars before it ends up in outer space? Where does the Martian atmosphere end and space begin?

In _3001: The Final Odyssey_ [which, unfortunately, like most of Sir Clarke's sequels, isn't all that great], Clarke envisioned 4 colossally tall towers on Earth -- reaching many miles up into the sky [and even outside of our atmosphere, if I recall correctly].

I thought that was an odd, but interesting, concept.

As for how the inhabitants of these gargantuan "space needles" got from floor to floor, I don't recall, beyond the use of super-fast elevators.

--Cindy

Byron · 2002-06-21 12:28:35

I have to admit that when I think of human habitations on Mars, any practicality goes right out the window [pardon the pun] with me. As a kid I got hooked on the illustrations I'd see on the covers of paperback sci-fi books [whether I read them or not]. I want those huge, sparking glass domes; tube transportation; wide, spacious and clean walk-ways with patches of green grass and flowers here and there; lots of color; free-standing sculptures and paintings from any and all artistic disciplines mounted here and there, for everyone to view and enjoy; glistening water fountains; "open-air" patios strung with multicolor, twinkling lights; and no sharp corners to be found anywhere.
In other words, a sci-fi world ala 1967.
Ah well. Yup, I'm dreaming.
--Cindy

Me too! lol...I want "indoor" Mars to be a place with no cars...just tube transport, ultra-cool buildings all over the place, with natural elements integrated wherever possible. I love houses and buildings that let in a lot of sunlight, which is why I'm such a hard-core supporter of *transparent* domes. Living like moles underground is definately not the way to go...we'll just have to invent anti-cancer drugs to take care of the radiation problem..

A particular architectural style I'd really like to see over there though, is anything inspired by Frank Lloyd Wright...imagine the kind of free-floating decks and terraces you'd be able to build in the low gee...

B

Phobos · 2002-06-21 13:05:01

A particular architectural style I'd really like to see over there though, is anything inspired by Frank Lloyd Wright...imagine the kind of free-floating decks and terraces you'd be able to build in the low gee...

Awesome, I'm glad someone mentioned Frank Lloyd Wright. I love his buildings, they are definately transcendent beyond mere structures. I bet he'd blow us away with his architectural designs for Mars.

Phobos · 2002-07-10 16:00:52

If that discovery of water on Mars pans out, I think the idea of using concrete as a building material found new life. Once you had the mixers and blast furnaces in place to make some of the ingredients you need, concrete buildings would be ideal for protection against cosmic radiation, meteorite impacts, etc. You could also use thick water impregnated windows as further protection from environmental hazards. Another plus to concrete is that it can be easily colored by throwing quanties of certain minerals into the mix. For the concrete to set at maximum strength though you'd need to have pressurized tents heated up to an optimum temperature for about 28 days. You might also want to lap metal rebar together in the walls for additional strength. The concrete interior could be carpeted/tiled with wallboard put on the walls. Indoor plumbing would be easy to, just put a gigantic tank outside for hot and cold water and run it in through pipes.

Byron · 2002-07-10 17:31:24

Phobos, have you read the book "As It Is On Mars"? This novel deals with exactly what you are talking about making and using concrete. The author also talked about the idea of using dual layers of glass with water in between as radiation shielding. Very interesting reading, actually.

I think concrete construction would work well with excavated trenches dug in the regolith, roofed over with 1.5 meter-thick glass "sandwich" walls filled with circulating water. You would still get your natural light, but have the benefit of near-total radiation protection...

B

Canth · 2002-07-10 19:34:30

I like the idea of living underneath a giant glass encased lake. For instance cover the top of a crater with a huge several meter thick enclosed lake perhaps with a strong flat glass bottom and a shallow dome top. You hang some buildings from the bottom of the lake build others up from the ground and down into it, encase the whole bottom of the crater in concrete with a dirt covering and get a really cool city. You get radiation sheilding, you can grow fish in the lake, plenty of natural beauty, and natural daytime lighting. Who could ask for more. I favor building as many of the buildings as possible from glass and similar substances to add to the ambiance. You would also likely have to have towers or pillars supporting the lake bottom. I would love to see a classical revival city underwater on mars built primarily out of glass. Best of all, according to the case for mars, glass is an easily manufactured substance on mars. I beleive that the eisiest type to make would come out tinted. I wonder what color, I can't remember. You would think red but maybe not. A red tinted underwater (sort of) martian city. Sounds like it is right out of the science fiction of the 60s. Best of all it makes some sense at first glance at least.

Palomar · 2002-07-10 22:43:41

If that discovery of water on Mars pans out, I think the idea of using concrete as a building material found new life. Once you had the mixers and blast furnaces in place to make some of the ingredients you need, concrete buildings would be ideal for protection against cosmic radiation, meteorite impacts, etc. You could also use thick water impregnated windows as further protection from environmental hazards. Another plus to concrete is that it can be easily colored by throwing quanties of certain minerals into the mix. For the concrete to set at maximum strength though you'd need to have pressurized tents heated up to an optimum temperature for about 28 days.

*Just wondering here: I know zilch about constructing buildings on Earth [much less on Mars!], and the concrete idea sounds ~*~groovy~*~ to me, but I'm wondering: How will these dwellings allow for windows [and I agree with a gentleman here who's mentioned more than once that Mars dwellings should have BIG windows to look out of, not those tiny Coke-bottle "port" windows]? I mean, anytime you punch a hole into a building, or leave a space to be filled up with something other than the original material, you've got the potential for air leakage, hairline cracks, etc. How will that effect pressurization within the dwelling, and is it possible to make a concrete (or other) building on Mars absolutely 100% air-tight?

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-07-10 22:53:25

I like the idea of living underneath a giant glass encased lake. For instance cover the top of a crater with a huge several meter thick enclosed lake perhaps with a strong flat glass bottom and a shallow dome top. You hang some buildings from the bottom of the lake build others up from the ground and down into it, encase the whole bottom of the crater in concrete with a dirt covering and get a really cool city. You get radiation sheilding, you can grow fish in the lake, plenty of natural beauty, and natural daytime lighting. Who could ask for more. I favor building as many of the buildings as possible from glass and similar substances to add to the ambiance. You would also likely have to have towers or pillars supporting the lake bottom. I would love to see a classical revival city underwater on mars built primarily out of glass. Best of all, according to the case for mars, glass is an easily manufactured substance on mars. I beleive that the eisiest type to make would come out tinted. I wonder what color, I can't remember. You would think red but maybe not. A red tinted underwater (sort of) martian city. Sounds like it is right out of the science fiction of the 60s. Best of all it makes some sense at first glance at least.

*Wow! I **LOVE** the imagery which flows into my mind's eye on reading your post! Canth, if I could bestow an architectural design award, I'd give it to you. Fantastic, glorious, and elegant -- that's what your style is for the ultimate Marsian dwelling.

It'd be so cool if you could make a computer graphic of it. Now let's see if my energetic mind will allow me to get to sleep on time tonight, which I doubt: I'll be exploring your Marsian city instead!

Thanks for posting this. Wonderful!!

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-07-12 01:19:55

Phobos, have you read the book "As It Is On Mars"? This novel deals with exactly what you are talking about making and using concrete. The author also talked about the idea of using dual layers of glass with water in between as radiation shielding. Very interesting reading, actually.
I think concrete construction would work well with excavated trenches dug in the regolith, roofed over with 1.5 meter-thick glass "sandwich" walls filled with circulating water. You would still get your natural light, but have the benefit of near-total radiation protection...

I haven't read the novel (good novel?), I got the idea from reading about a design for a lunar building that would have an outer layer of water as radiation protection. I pretty much assumed the concrete, especially if you used high strength mixes and built thick concrete walls and ceilings, would by its own virtue block most radiation, at least as well as piling up regolith over a structure. So I thought water could be omitted from the walls of the concrete structure. I'm thinking for the windows it might actually be necessary to have three panes, the inner pane cavity filled with water and the outer pane cavity circulated with warm air to keep the water from freezing and causing adverse affects on the windows. You could probably build a duct that would suck warm air from the ventilation pipes of the structure itself.

*Just wondering here: I know zilch about constructing buildings on Earth [much less on Mars!], and the concrete idea sounds ~*~groovy~*~ to me, but I'm wondering: How will these dwellings allow for windows [and I agree with a gentleman here who's mentioned more than once that Mars dwellings should have BIG windows to look out of, not those tiny Coke-bottle "port" windows]? I mean, anytime you punch a hole into a building, or leave a space to be filled up with something other than the original material, you've got the potential for air leakage, hairline cracks, etc. How will that effect pressurization within the dwelling, and is it possible to make a concrete (or other) building on Mars absolutely 100% air-tight?

If you used air-entrained high strength concrete reinforced with steel bar (I'm thinking something around the figure of 4500psi like that used in warehouse floors and driveways meant for semi-trucks) and built your structure on a properly prepared foundation, I doubt if you'd have many problems with cracks. Anyways, the structure wouldn't have to be 100% air-tight even though with good caulking and construction design it would probably come pretty damn close. As for windows, there's high-strength transparent mesh materials on the horizon that would probably prevent things like cracks in the windows. I'd love to go to Mars and experiment with building all concrete buildings.

I like the idea of living underneath a giant glass encased lake. For instance cover the top of a crater with a huge several meter thick enclosed lake perhaps with a strong flat glass bottom and a shallow dome top.

Awesome idea. I think you could use glass covered craters for agriculture to. Imagine all that space you could have available for producing crops. They'd be like big greenhouses.

RobS · 2002-08-16 00:01:57

An early construction technique that would be relatively simple would be to build your housing under the apron or skirt of the dome. In Case for Mars, you can read about the idea of building domes that have a skirt buried under regolith, the weight of the regolith countering the upward pressure of the air. If you built your housing under the regolith skirt, you'd have radiation protection and insulation. You could also have doors and windows opening onto the greenery of the dome; they'd have to be airtight in case of a dome leak, though. Such constructions would have a certain "circle the wagons" feel; you'd have a view of a bit of Earth in the middle, but maybe not so many windows facing outward toward Mars.

But once the domes get bigger and taller, it may make more sense to bury the skirts with nothing under them--just more dirt--and build your buildings under the dome itself. Such buildings might not even need to be airtight; if the dome were large enough, an air leak would take hours to become a problem and people could easily be evacuated from the buildings (especially if they had airtight underground access tunnels). Such buildings could resemble just about anything we have on Earth, except the roofs would probably be flat rooftop gardens/lawns (where people could have a bit of private outdoor space, and because a meter or two of regolith on the roof would provide excellent radiation protection). I suspect urban apartment buildings, with little balconies, would be a common model. Such construction could also be reasonably cheap, since it would be carried out after the dome was already pressurized and would take advantage of all the efficiencies that have been developed in terrestrial construction.

-- RobS

Phobos · 2002-08-17 01:07:45

An early construction technique that would be relatively simple would be to build your housing under the apron or skirt of the dome. In Case for Mars, you can read about the idea of building domes that have a skirt buried under regolith, the weight of the regolith countering the upward pressure of the air.

Fascinating idea. Building structures beneath the regolith that anchors the dome would make maximum use of the enclosed area. You could live underground and use the top portion of the dome as something of a giant greenhouse. I think this would be superior to having a bunch of little domes as greenhouses because the higher volume of air would shield the crops better from radiation and they'd also produce oxygen that could be directly used by the colonists underground.

turbo · 2002-08-17 10:36:01

I remember reading about one architect, whose name completely escapes me, that advocated an architectural system called arcology that was basically a pre-planned city that could pack a very high density population comfortably into a relatively small area. I thought his ideas were somewhat crazy, but now that I think about it, his ideas might make perfect sense for Martian architecture. He had a lot of very tall buildings with unique designs and transportation systems. I have to find that book so I can elaborate further.
How tall could you build a skyscraper on Mars before it ends up in outer space? Where does the Martian atmosphere end and space begin?

I remember the arcology idea! I had to do a quick check with dogpile to get the first name right. The architect's name is Paolo Soleri.

Nice city layout.

t

RobS · 2002-08-17 22:02:13

Regarding the question where does Mars's atmosphere end and space begin, I think the Global Surveyor was aerobraking as low as about 70 miles. You could check the NASA webpages about the various missions in orbit to check that. Aerobraking is a reasonably good definition of an atmosphere; above that, spacecraft are little affected.

Regarding Paolo Solari and arcology, there is a settlement called "Arcosanti" in the desert half way between Phoenix and Flagstaff, right off the interstate (17, I think), which makes for a fascinating visit.

-- RobS

Phobos · 2002-08-18 15:30:50

Thanks for jogging my memory. Now that I go back and re-examine some of arcology's concepts, Mars looks like the perfect place for that kind of architectural system. This website gave the following factors that make arcology workable and I think they're all very relevant to Mars:

--high percentage of sunny days,
--the necessity of careful water management,
the high desirability of contained, dense urban systems,
the desirabilty of foodstuffs produced locally for local consumption at a minimum water use

If we could build a city a under a dome I think this kind of system would work well. I want to visit Arcosanti now to see how they implemented arcology.

Palomar · 2003-01-16 10:21:48

*I brought Clark's quote over from the "Martian Kibbutzim" thread:

"No matter where you are on Mars, you will be living with other people. There will be no room for hermits.

Imagine living in a Hotel for the rest of your life- it is simmilar in many regards to what the Martians will face."

I'm wondering just how large dwellings can be made on Mars? Particularly in the early days of settlement? What will be the average size of living space for, say, a community of 100 people?

--Cindy

clark · 2003-01-16 11:26:42

As a dwelling increases, the area for failure increases. Complexity increases. As area increases, bio-regenerative process must be adjusted to handle larger volume sizes, this neccessarily leads to greater use of power, water, and heat management.

Then there is the availability of the neccessary resources to expand. Much of any settlement will incorporate hig-end technology- computers, and all of their assorted parts will need to be in abundance- replacements wil be neccessary. Secondary and teritarty fail-safe amchines that operate throughout the base will be neccessary prior to construction (or more precisely, completion).

the dwellings will be as big as they can afford to make them, but smaller than they would wish.

The real loss of space comes from the inability to actually escape and be "alone". There will be no parks to get lost in.

Palomar · 2003-01-16 12:06:38

As a dwelling increases, the area for failure increases. Complexity increases. As area increases, bio-regenerative process must be adjusted to handle larger volume sizes, this neccessarily leads to greater use of power, water, and heat management.
Then there is the availability of the neccessary resources to expand. Much of any settlement will incorporate hig-end technology- computers, and all of their assorted parts will need to be in abundance- replacements wil be neccessary. Secondary and teritarty fail-safe amchines that operate throughout the base will be neccessary prior to construction (or more precisely, completion).
the dwellings will be as big as they can afford to make them, but smaller than they would wish.
The real loss of space comes from the inability to actually escape and be "alone". There will be no parks to get lost in.

*True. But they'll have to find a way to allow people to have "time out" as regards privacy and the ability to be away from others...and not just in the privacy of one's own tiny room. Since I'm hoping "freedom of association" will be a right during one's free time (after chores are completed, duties/obligations fulfilled, etc., etc.) it would be a nice luxury if a few "multipurpose rooms" were created wherein one could rent the priviledge of having that space for just one's self or a small, select group of friends and/or family.

People on Mars shouldn't be required to ::have:: to interact with each other and everyone all the time (except during sleep, of course); it would lead to many personal problems, "getting on each other's nerves," etc.

Barring the "multipurpose room" option, excursions outside the hab and/or community building(s) could be undertaken on foot, provided some safety measures (whatever those would be) were in order and provided the person(s) wanting to go on a foot forray had a functional, fitting space suit.

--Cindy

clark · 2003-01-16 12:14:05

I think you hit upon an excellent and idea in terms of dealing with personal space: specific rooms.

Perhaps there will be multi-purpose rooms, and perhaps parks too, where you can rent the room for a small amount of time. It works with squash courts and the like, so why not this?

I would suggest that solutions other than "outside exscursion" be considered here. My view is that an outside exscursion is nothing more than placing yourself in the smallest confined space possible where there happen to be very few people.

The point being is to be unencumbered and alone. Most people do not view scuba diving as a means to "get away". It stands as a specfic activity unto itself.

The idea should be for ways that people can enjoy what we take for granted here as simply as possible. You'bve come up with one good one, so how about some more?

Bill White · 2003-01-16 13:15:47

Customs will develop. Symbols of privacy can partially substitute for actual privacy.

Japanese style rock or sand gardens can be extremely tiny but if all settlers respect the sacred integrity of another's garden such rock gardens can provide "personal space" to the owner. Growing "pet" plants can also be an outlet to establish a purely private space.

One character in a story I am working on grows a single cherry tomato plant using mostly mirror concentrated natural Mars sunlight brought in through a light tube. As a challenge she makes minimal use of LEDs or other artificial light. No one else dares to touch the plant.

She carefully tends to the plant every day and her sharing of the fruit with favored people takes on symbolic meaning far beyond the small amounts of Vitamins A & C found in that food. Lets ask Dr. Freud about that!

Other rituals and routines can be established to respect each others privacy and need for personal space as long as the need for such things is openly acknowledged by all.

Palomar · 2003-01-16 13:29:37

Customs will develop. Symbols of privacy can partially substitute for actual privacy.
Other rituals and routines can be established to respect each others privacy and need for personal space as long as the need for such things is openly acknowledged by all.

*I wish I were as optimistic in this regard as you, but knowing people as I've come to know them, I think there will be a need for actual physical privacy options.

Some people are "horn-inski's" by nature. Some people have poor sense of boundaries. Trying to point this out to the people who are this way usually results in heated statements of denial.

Sometimes the only way certain people will leave you alone is if you are literally inaccessible to them. Some people have greater privacy needs/alone time than others. Not everyone is an overly gregarious social animal (and I'm not implying you are saying that).

I recall offices I worked in, wherein certain coworkers somehow make the silly assumption that because you are physically present in that chair, in the same room with them, you just ::want:: to hear all about their problems, their lives, their kids and spouses, on and on. Some are so overbearing that it seems they are attempting to make you feel as though you are obligated to sit there and listen to them, and they take it as a personal slight if you remind them you're here to work...and not play junior amateur psychiatrist. I can't imagine being cooped up with dunderheads like that all the time in a complex on Mars!

Unless the settlers on Mars are exceptionally sensitive, conscientious and courteous folks by comparison, people will need physical distance from each other.

--Cindy

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