You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
Looks to me like manufacture of light bulbs shoudl be well within the grasp of the early colony.
The various elements required for glass manufacture are present on Mars. A mini machine will be able to automatically smelt the components and then blow the glass into desired shapes.
So the glass envelope should not present a huge problem.
I presume some inert gas will be available to create the low pressure environment inside the glass bulb. Tungsten for the metal filament is available on Mars. We can manufacture the screw cap, using iron ore or aluminium. We can use aluminium for the wiring/contacts.
I've already concluded that electric motors should also be reasonably simple to manufacture.
So things are going well on the electrical front.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
By the time Mars manufacture and colonization becomes possible, light bulbs will be an extinct technology. They are also fragile and very energy inefficient
LED lights will probably be used.
Offline
By the time Mars manufacture and colonization becomes possible, light bulbs will be an extinct technology. They are also fragile and very energy inefficient
LED lights will probably be used.
QFT.
Come on to the Future
Offline
Sorry - what's QFT?
Anyway, I am guessing that LED involves quite advanced manufacturing techniques.
On Mars we want to start with fairly simple manufacture.
But if you can convince me LED is simpler to manufacture than the traditional light bulb then I'll put it on the list!
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
Sorry - what's QFT?
Anyway, I am guessing that LED involves quite advanced manufacturing techniques.
On Mars we want to start with fairly simple manufacture.
But if you can convince me LED is simpler to manufacture than the traditional light bulb then I'll put it on the list!
Well not really, they are quite simple and woud require just about the same mass in equipment.
Offline
I'll check them out.
Of course when deciding on what and how to produce things on Mars, we don't just look product by product. The great thing about a small scale glass manufacturing machine is that it will produce not just light bulb envelopes but also drinking glasses, medical and other instruments, containers for food produce and hygiene products, plates, saucers, lab equipment etc.
You have to ask whether you get the same benefit from manufacturing the parts for an LED. I don't know yet but it seems unlikely.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
the benefit of leds will be limitless
All electronics lights could be produced from such a factory. They are way more energy efficient, last much longer, less prone to failure
and are made of widely abundant materials on Mars
Offline
Yes - all good. But if they only produce LEDs then it is a rather restricted process.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
Yes - all good. But if they only produce LEDs then it is a rather restricted process.
Not true. The uses of LEDs are practically countless in the modern world. The same facilities and raw materials could also be used for the manufacturing of Solar Cells or microelectronics (like CPU's)...
Offline
I am sure they are. But in a small initial colony, we aren't looking for all those countless applications, especially if they involve other specialist equipment and processes, involving rare skills and highly technical working in sterile environments.
What we want to do is produce the necessities of life. We want to be able to replicate the energy producing and food production systems; we want to be able to make basic, containers, motors, tools and vehicles; we want to be able to construct and maintain habitats.
We don't want to produce a high tech industrial infrastructure in the early stages on Mars because that is too resource intensive. We need to be able to produce the simple materials: gases, metals, polymers and ceramics that will enable us to function.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
A good bright long life light bulb is a complicated thing. Even then it is still going to be terribly inefficient and prone to failure. LED's are a basic component these days.
QFT = Quoted for Truth.
Come on to the Future
Offline
I am sure they are. But in a small initial colony, we aren't looking for all those countless applications, especially if they involve other specialist equipment and processes, involving rare skills and highly technical working in sterile environments.
What we want to do is produce the necessities of life. We want to be able to replicate the energy producing and food production systems; we want to be able to make basic, containers, motors, tools and vehicles; we want to be able to construct and maintain habitats.
We don't want to produce a high tech industrial infrastructure in the early stages on Mars because that is too resource intensive. We need to be able to produce the simple materials: gases, metals, polymers and ceramics that will enable us to function.
Producing lightbulbs would be a step backward since they're going to be an extinct technology. They would also be an extreme waste of resources. A glass factory on mars, maybe... but there are few good reason to produce light bulbs.
The reality is that we live in an advanced technological society and any plans to colonize Mars must give it the benefit of modern technology. There is no point crippling that colony in the technological stone age.
Mars colonization will probably involve lots of high tech computers, automation, robots and communication infrastructure.
For the first small colony on Mars, It makes a lot more sense to ship LED lighting to the planet from Earth rather than produce it on the surface with a factory.
When the Martian colony expands, it probably will need to establish semi-conductor and electronics facilities to produce lighting and electronics.
Offline
I agree with Gregori. Over the next few years, we will see the prices of LEDs for illumination greatly decrease. The manufacturing process will likely be perfected by the time large amounts are needed on mars. Although energy may be plentiful in the first colonies, in the long term it only makes sense to invest in more efficient technologies.
Granted, there may also be a place for incandescent and fluorescent bulbs. They may be used where both heat and light are necessary (and the lights will constantly be on) such as an artificial light greenhouse. Maybe even to make up for the lost heat and light during dust storm season.
Offline
The manufacturing base for LED technology is almost here.
But I think were still a decade away from getting over the politically driven, CFL mercury induced stupor.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
Offline
When the time comes to colonize large amounts of the Solar system, I think we'll want a pretty integrated approach to the manufacture of electronics, lighting, computer parts etc
Most of these technologies are based upon sillicon semi-conducters and photolithographic printing techniques, so the same facilty could be utilized to produce them
A large factory in a location where its easy to obtain the materials in bulk and produce all these parts could supply ALL the colonies.
As long as the first colonies/bases are very small, Its very likely that all hi-tech supplies will come from Earth. It just makes no sense to locally produce LEDs/Lightbulbs for only 100-1000 people. They don't do things this way anywhere on Earth.
Offline
I'm looking at this from the point of view of an initial colony where we want to minimise the manufacturing base. I don't think there's much point in leaping on to solar system wide industrial production.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
I'm looking at this from the point of view of an initial colony where we want to minimise the manufacturing base. I don't think there's much point in leaping on to solar system wide industrial production.
For intinial colony, there won't be much point in producing lightbulbs. Really almost zero. A single shipment of LED Lights from Earth would probably keep the whole colony lit for atleast a decade!
When there is a drive for establishing huge colonies, It would make sense to supply all electronics from centralized facilites manufacturing in bulk quantities.
Offline
Well we have to get into definitions, don't we.
I tend to think of the "Initial Colony" as being that phase of its development from initial landing to about 100 residents.
I would agree that for the initial landing and maybe for one or two after that we would simply import light bulbs. But beyond that we are going to have glass blowing and metal working capabilities. Given that there seems no reason why we shouldn't programme our machines to produce a few light bulbs.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
Well we have to get into definitions, don't we.
I tend to think of the "Initial Colony" as being that phase of its development from initial landing to about 100 residents.
I would agree that for the initial landing and maybe for one or two after that we would simply import light bulbs. But beyond that we are going to have glass blowing and metal working capabilities. Given that there seems no reason why we shouldn't programme our machines to produce a few light bulbs.
There wouldn't be INSITU production of lighting and electronic devices for colonies smaller than 10 000 residents. It doesn't make practical or economic sense.
When we do ship, We'll be shipping LEDs! They are much sturdier, much more energy effiencient, have longer lifetimes and are easier to transport.
I'm sure glass and ceramics will be used at some point on Mars, but its just not going to be used for lighting.
Semi-conductors is where its at!!
For colonization, we should develop large integrated facilities to supply ALL the colonies!
Offline
Gregori -
You say:
"There wouldn't be INSITU production of lighting and electronic devices for colonies smaller than 10 000 residents. It doesn't make practical or economic sense. "
I think you may be applying earth economics here rather than Mars economics. In terms of Mars economics the aim is to reduce the mass of supplies to Mars, since that is where all the real costs are. We will have the machines, the materials and the energy to manufacture electrical devices such as electric motors, light bulbs, cable and so on. It will make economic sense to do so. The initial colonists won't have many needs. They won't be jetting off on holiday, or wearing a wide range of clothing, or driving personal cars...But among their simple needs will be electrical equipment.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
Gregori -
You say:
"There wouldn't be INSITU production of lighting and electronic devices for colonies smaller than 10 000 residents. It doesn't make practical or economic sense. "
I think you may be applying earth economics here rather than Mars economics. In terms of Mars economics the aim is to reduce the mass of supplies to Mars, since that is where all the real costs are. We will have the machines, the materials and the energy to manufacture electrical devices such as electric motors, light bulbs, cable and so on. It will make economic sense to do so. The initial colonists won't have many needs. They won't be jetting off on holiday, or wearing a wide range of clothing, or driving personal cars...But among their simple needs will be electrical equipment.
The colonist will expect more than a medievil standard of living, or they will not go! Even basic colonies will have a lot of needs. 'Mars Economics' will not justify what you are suggesting practically or economically.
Economies of scale are needed, regardless of planet. I'm not sure you grasp how much energy, materials and trade it requires to make even these basic products - but its fairly considerable.
To justify such a huge energy and material expense, you will need several colonies of over 10 000 people.
The trend of migration in world has tended to be people moving into cities and away from rural areas - not the otherway around.
They will never use lightbulbs on Mars because its going to be a dead technology and it makes more sense to ship and produce LEDs...
EDIT: I roughly worked it out and an Ares V type ship could deliver around 400 000 LED Bulbs to Mars. Each these bulbs last around 5-6 years and uses a meager 3W.
If you want to use Solar Power on Mars, Incandecsent bulbs are really bad because they consume 95% of their electricity producing heat. They're really wasteful.
Offline
I disagree. Frugal living will be a major component of early colonial life on Mars.
What exactly do the people of Mars need? Basic clothing, air, food, water,
basic medical support (there aren't going to be any sickly octogenarians), heat, lighting and shelter. They'll need a kitchen, hygiene area, gym, sleep zone and rest room. They will have their gym and laptops for entertainment. We might throw in a basket ball hoop and basketball.
I really don't see the need for anything much more. We might have some musically minded people who could take light instruments - a flute would be a good choice. Laptops could have rubber keyboards attachments.
All their reading matter, films etc can be contained on laptops and similar.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
I disagree. Frugal living will be a major component of early colonial life on Mars.
What exactly do the people of Mars need? Basic clothing, air, food, water,
basic medical support (there aren't going to be any sickly octogenarians), heat, lighting and shelter. They'll need a kitchen, hygiene area, gym, sleep zone and rest room. They will have their gym and laptops for entertainment. We might throw in a basket ball hoop and basketball.I really don't see the need for anything much more. We might have some musically minded people who could take light instruments - a flute would be a good choice. Laptops could have rubber keyboards attachments.
All their reading matter, films etc can be contained on laptops and similar.
Since nobody is generally going for this on Earth - its not likely to be true.
You could have a pretty medievil standard of living on Earth very easily (go to any third world country), but most people just don't do it. They go towards big cities etc etc
Don't expect Mars colonies to be much less than a large industrialized operation. It will be very uneconomic otherwise.
Don't get me wrong, I think we can build new types of city and settlement on Mars - different to anything on Earth.
Offline
Pages: 1