NILFiR

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-03 15:51:51

The reaction is:

Li-7+N=> Li-8=> Be-8 + 16 MeV => He-4 (+ 16 MeV)

About twice as much energy per unit of mass as uranium fission, the reaction happens nearly instantly. Only one problem- Where do you get the neutron from. The answer is you make it out of a proton and electron. Here's how:

A neutron has a mass of 939.6 GeV, While a proton has 938.2 GeV, and an electron .5 MeV. I don't get how, but it's reletively easy for a nucleus to undergo electron capture. I figure 500 KeV- 1 MeV of speed in an electron will be enough energy to transmute a proton to a neutron.

That means a total energy gain of 15 MeV/ reaction.

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-04 16:13:25

:Cough:

It will satisfy the anti-nuclear nuts

:cough:

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-05 08:28:06

Did I mention that it could be used both fro NTR and strait propulsion?

Terraformer · 2008-03-07 12:17:03

Well I'm not a Nuclear Physicist, so don't ask me.

If it does work, we could use Uranium fission as well as Lithium to produce the Neutrons.

I'm not sure there's enough Li to go around though.

It would allow us to produce more powerful (hence smaller) clean nuclear bombs. Orion?

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-07 14:45:55

possibly the lithium could surround the uranium. But there's more lithium than thre is uranium, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Terraformer · 2008-03-07 15:13:50

Li-8 contains 3 Protons and 5 Neutrons. So causing it to split would produce Deutranium (1 P 1 N) and some weird element (2 P 4 N). Or maybe Tritium (1 P 2 N) and Helium-5? (2 P 3 N). Unless 1 Neutron will decay into an electron and a Proton?

If the reaction produces Helium, it could make Airships take off (just realised about the pun) in a big way.

Where did you get your figures from?

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-07 15:24:23

what pun?

Actually, the energy in the reaction mostly comes from Li-8 decaying into Be-8. only 90 KeV from Be-8 to 2 He-4 And I get my info from http://nucleardata.nuclear.lu.se/Nuclea … Search.asp.

Terraformer · 2008-03-07 16:00:27

Most of the energy comes from a Neutron decaying into a Proton and an Electron? Shouldn't that give off the same amount of energy as producing a Neutron in the first place? The only way I can see to make this work is to use naturally radioactive materials to give off Neutrons.

Hmmm... cars using Nuclear energy? Niiice.

Terraformer · 2008-03-08 10:17:08

Hello, anyone there? Would it work or not?

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-08 12:30:11

terraformer, it's the binding energy that is used, not the neutron decay. Consider the neutron like a catylist, almost exactly like uranium fission.

About the nuclear cars, I think that would be a good application.

noosfractal · 2008-03-08 13:04:08

Hello, anyone there? Would it work or not?

In theory, but tormac fusion works in theory.

What will you do with all the energy it generates? How will it be a rocket and not a bomb?

How heavy does the neutron source have to be? Will it really be efficient enough to generate more energy than it uses?

When the neutrons hit stuff other than the Li, it will produce radioactive stuff. How bad would this problem be? Will you be able to have a crew?

It's cool that you're thinking beyond chemical energy

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-08 13:39:40

Well, it would be like a fission fragment rocket. The he-4 produced has 7.5 MeV each. Think of the Isp. Low thrust, though. Then there's NTR. I would make the fuel pure lithium, or at least LiH. If my neutron source idea works, then it would b reasonably lightweight, and my neutron source is directional, so radioactivity shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: Oh, and the neutron source is basically a small particle accellerator (~1 MeV)

noosfractal · 2008-03-08 16:49:09

it would be like a fission fragment rocket

Oh thanks, I hadn't seen that design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission-fragment_rocket

Very interesting.

the neutron source is basically a small particle accellerator (~1 MeV)

Hmmm, I'm not seeing your idea among existing neutron sources ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_source

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-08 17:03:55

yea, it's currently theoretical, but only because I don't have the resources to test it. Do you get the idea?

Terraformer · 2008-03-09 06:02:59

What labs/universities would be able to test it? They might be interested. You'd be able to keep the intellectual rights for the design.

Terraformer · 2008-03-09 06:18:12

I've just remembered something. Firing a Neutron at Li-7 causes it to turn into 1 Deutranium atom and 2 Tritium atoms. That's how they were going to fuel fuFusion reactors.

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-09 06:36:42

First, I think you mean deuterium, not deutranium, right?

I'm sure that that was a fast neutron from fission, and it completely destroyed the nucleus. I'm talking a neutron w/an energy 1 MeV at most.

Another application would be for fusion. each alpha particle (helium nucleus) removed has 7.5 MeV which is enough for fusion. Be-9 + He-4 => C-13 (C-12 + N ?) + 14.75 MeV

so basically, you use the energy in the alpha particle to fuse with something else.

Terraformer · 2008-03-09 07:52:56

Stick with fission for now. Fusion runs into the same problems that, well, fusion runs into already. Unless you have another nuclear idea that will get round those problems?

Anyway, we'd want to keep that energy for now and use it.

You need to contact a lab/university. This idea, if it works, holds a lot of promise for energy generation, spacetravel, and maybe the holy grail of Atmospheric-Orbital flight, an SSTO!

You're *sure* Lithium is more abundant than Uranium?

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-09 09:16:23

Wikipedia on lithium:

Lithium is the 33rd most abundant element on Earth... Estimates for crustal content range from 20 to 70 ppm by weight...

Wikipedia on uranium:

Its average concentration in the Earth's crust is (depending on the reference) 2 to 4 parts per million...It is estimated that 4.7 million tonnes of uranium ore reserves are economically viable

Average ppm is, I would assume, proportional to the amount of ore, but I would have no real idea.

But I don't think that this packs enough punch for SSTO. Might be good for interplanetary travel, though.

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-09 09:24:34

oh, and anyone who has a modest particle accelerator would be able to test it. (I.e.- Van de Graaff accelerator and above) so most places.

Terraformer · 2008-03-09 10:14:01

So get in touch with your nearest university. Which would be where?

If it works, you get the patent. That means you become a billionaire. If it works will you fund Mars colinization? 8) 8)

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-09 10:20:40

I'll see what I can do.

but does anyone have info on my neutron source?

noosfractal · 2008-03-09 11:22:41

does anyone have info on my neutron source?

After a quick scan it seems that electron-proton fusion occurs only at the heart of a Type II Supernova. So you might want to look at alternative neutron sources.

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-09 11:49:15

It looks like that is caused by fission of atomic nuclei. But we know that protons can be turned into neutrons because the sun does it all of the time. Is it feasible for us to turn protons to neutrons in the same way? If not, are there any other ways?

Terraformer · 2008-03-09 11:56:56

We can always fall back on naturally radioactive sources like Uranium and Plutonium. It's a lot less energy intensive.

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