Ares I (CLV) - status

cIclops · 2008-01-08 04:38:34

Altitude test stand (A-3) for J-2X engine development, to be ready in 2010

From Progress on the J-2X Upper Stage engine (PDF 7MB) - September 2007

RedStreak · 2008-01-08 15:33:25

Wow the Critical Design Review is this year...definetely crunch time for the J2-X crew but sounds like they're trying to stay on par.

cIclops · 2008-01-08 16:31:31

Wow the Critical Design Review is this year...definetely crunch time for the J2-X crew but sounds like they're trying to stay on par.

Yep, J-2X is the long lead element of Ares I, P&W started work on it back in 2006.

Here's the plan for all to see:

From Progress on the J-2X Upper Stage engine (PDF 7MB) - September 2007

cIclops · 2008-01-15 10:06:50

Launch flow concept from: Constellation Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement - 10 Jan 2008

cIclops · 2008-01-23 11:17:41

Ares I Program Seeks Shuttle Data - 23 Jan 2008

By Frank Morring, Jr./Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
Managers of NASA's Ares launch vehicle project are in early discussions with their space shuttle counterparts over using a shuttle launch early next year to gather flight-test data on a potentially dangerous vibration that ground-test data suggest might occur in the Ares I first stage.
That stage is to be a five-segment version of the four-segment reusable solid rocket motor (RSRM) that is fired in pairs to boost the shuttle stack off the launch pad. "Conservative" calculations of the potential frequency and amplitude of a thrust oscillation that could occur in the Ares I first stage as it nears burnout suggest the vibration could damage critical components and harm the crew.
Those calculations are based on static ground tests of four-segment boosters conducted over the history of the shuttle program, and some very limited information extracted from data collected during shuttle flights for other purposes, according to Steve Cook, Ares Projects Office manager.
To get better data, Ares project engineers want to mount pressure sensors inside an operational shuttle RSRM, probably for a flight early in 2009, to measure the changes in pressure inside the motor as it burns. Cook said Jan. 22 the planning is in the early stages.
"What we'd like to do is put some instrumentation on the motor and on the shuttle itself to, one, understanding the forcing function in flight, and two, what kind of response is it transmitting into the shuttle," Cook said. "This is not something we've tried to go off and measure before."

cIclops · 2008-01-24 14:34:59

(01/24/2008) --- KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, FLA. -- In the hypergolic maintenance facility at NASA's Kennedy Space Center, technicians monitor equipment during testing of the Ares I-X Roll Control System, or RoCS. The RoCS Servicing Simulation Test is to gather data that will be used to help certify the ground support equipment design and validate the servicing requirements and processes. The RoCS is part of the Interstage structure, the lowest axial segment of the Upper Stage Simulator. In an effort to reduce costs and meet the schedule, most of the ground support equipment that will be used for the RoCS servicing is of space shuttle heritage

The Ares I-X test flight is planned for 15 April 2009.

cIclops · 2008-01-28 05:09:31

Thrust Oscillation Issue

Jan 28, 2008
By Frank Morring, Jr.
Modifications to correct a potentially deadly vibration from the solid-fuel first-stage of the Ares I crew launch vehicle could range from tweaking the geometry of the propellant inside the rocket motor to unlocking seat shock absorbers in the Orion capsule so they protect astronauts on launch as well as landing.
Engineers at the Ares I project office here are working with experts from across the country to better understand the thrust oscillation issue in the first stage, a five-segment version of the four-segment reusable solid rocket motor (RSRM) that is fired in pairs to power the space shuttle stack off the launch pad.
“Conservative” calculations of the potential frequency and amplitude of a thrust oscillation that could occur in the first stage as it nears burnout, and of the way that vibration links to the rest of the vehicle, suggest that it could set up a resonance that would damage critical components and harm the crew (AW&ST Dec. 10, 2007, p. 60).
A thrust-oscillation “focus team,” convened in November 2007, has since calculated that the problem may not be as severe as it appeared earlier in the fall. But the work continues under a looming March deadline, set so designers on both the launch vehicle and Orion can start work in earnest on mitigating the effect, if necessary, before preliminary design review (PDR) at the end of the summer.
“That gives us a good view of the problem with what we see as how big the risk is, [along with] what are the right mitigation strategies for any residual risk left, so that going into PDR we have a good handle on it and we’re designing for it,” says Garry Lyles, an experienced launch vehicle engineer at Marshall who heads the focus team. “You’re not waiting downstream of the [PDR] to start designing your system to accommodate the oscillation.”

... more

RedStreak · 2008-01-28 10:53:36

But the focus team has since calculated that the problem may not be as severe as originally feared. Nominally the oscillation frequency of a five-segment booster is 12 Hz. (compared with 15 Hz. for the four-segment version). But after that it gets complicated. Translating RSRM ground-test data into accurate forcing function figures and the stack’s response to that force is extremely difficult, particularly since the upper-stage and Orion designs remain immature and oscillation data are based on ground tests.
Lyles says oscillation may not be as well-organized—and destructive—as feared, and may even be random instead of a steady wave that can resonate with the rest of the vehicle. And even if it isn’t, the vehicle response may not be as severe as possible. The shuttle stack is “insensitive” to the frequencies generated by its four-segment boosters, and because of the timing of the oscillations the Ares I structure may already be robust enough to handle the most serious loads. That would limit needed fixes to subsystems, which should be easier.
“[These loads come] late in the burn when there’s not a lot of other loads, which is a good place for it to be,” Lyles says.

Ha! Gateo always complains about 5-segments being 'too dangerous' - well this sticks one sword into that argument.

No doubt there's much to this issue but this is EARLY in the design phase. All engineers are doing are pointing out what has to be dealt with so we can make a safe vehicle. IGNORING the problem is the bad thing, NOT IDENTIFYING IT.

I think when the time comes for the Ares I-Y and X flights they'll have solid solutions they'll test on both systems.

cIclops · 2008-01-28 11:19:10

Developing complex high performance systems takes a long time, the more new technology required the longer it takes and the more risk there is that it won't work. NASA have made a good decision to start from well understood heritage technology, such as the Shuttle RSRB & ET and the Saturn J-2X. This doesn't guarantee a problem free process, but it does minimizes risk, cost and schedule.

cIclops · 2008-02-04 08:42:31

J-2X Ignition Sets Stage For Ares I Hot-Fires - 4 Feb 2008

An apparently successful ignition test of the powerpack for NASA's new J-2X rocket engine clears the way for a series of hot-fire tests using heritage hardware dating back to the Apollo era.
The Jan. 31 test of a pyrotechnic igniter in a J2-X powerpack test article was the first step toward the beginning of critical design review (CDR) in April or May of upgrades planned for the Saturn V upper-stage engine. A short-duration fueled test of about 12 seconds could come as early as Feb. 7, and if that goes well plans call for test firings in the 200-300-second range later this winter.
Initial indications were that all objectives were met in the brief igniter firing, which tested a pyrotechnic device designed to get the turbomachinery spinning on the J-2X to feed the main injector in the engine. The engine's gas-generator design allows it to be tested in pieces to collect data as the program builds toward full-up tests of the new engine design in 2010, and the pyrotechnic igniter was the first new piece in the path to the J-2X.
"We need that to fire pretty quick, pretty hot, pretty instantaneous for our start sequence, so we chose this pyrotechnic," said Mike Kynard, upper stage engine element manager at Marshall Space Flight Center.
The J-2X is planned for the cryogenic upper stage on the Ares I crew launch vehicle, and is the acknowledged pacing item for the entire vehicle. Later it also will power the Earth Departure Stage that is planned to propel humans back to the moon.
Installed on historic test stand A1 at Stennis Space Center, the test article uses turbomachinery originally fired as part of the linear aerospike engine Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne was developing for the X-33 testbed in the 1990s. NASA chose the human-rated heritage-hardware approach to move as rapidly as possible to get a new human-rated upper-stage engine for the Ares I. But at 294,000 pounds thrust and a specific impulse of 448 seconds, the J-2X will be much more capable than its J-2 and J-2S predecessors.
"We're going to flow a good bit more propellant through there to get the extra 60,000 pounds of thrust we need from this engine," Kynard said. "Now we're not going to get all the way there. The pump wasn't designed for that. That's why we're redesigning it. So we're going to creep up on it to make sure that while we're getting this data, we don't get any collateral damage."
NASA has already started ordering long-lead items for the first full-up J-2X engine, which is scheduled to get its first full test in April 2010. Kynard said the current round of testing should be finished at about the same time his project starts contractor reviews for CDR.
"The data's coming in good time to inform the pump design, to make sure we've got our math models anchored correctly to proceed with design," he said.

RedStreak · 2008-02-04 14:31:03

That's some sweet news. Obviously the next bit of news will come in a few days on Febuary 7th.

When is a test for the full engine tenatively scheduled again? I know this is just testing of the powerpack so we're still a few steps away from firing the whole thing up.

cIclops · 2008-02-04 14:58:06

According to the J-2X development plan from Oct 2007, full engine tests start at the beginning of 2010. In the meantime power pack testing continues together with other tests on the engine subsystems.

gaetanomarano · 2008-02-06 02:15:57

.

I think that the Ares-1 will be the first "dead-weight launcher" as explained in my article:

http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/023deadweight.html

and that "dead-weight" launched will cost over $250 million for each Orion/Ares-1 launch

.

RedStreak · 2008-02-06 02:37:01

Ugh...gez your website still gives me epilepsy from the colors on page. :shock:

And to your dead-weight argument...OH PLEASE! No offense but you obviously haven't looked at the fact composites are materials optimized to be both cheap and lightweight.

The space shuttle has more dead weight than the Ares ever will, namely THE WINGS. For 99% of the flight, they do absolutely nothing. It is only during the last few minutes of descent they are used at all. The broad S-skids the shuttle does is a navigational nightmare compared to the old capsule reentries. Maybe that's one reason why ESA abandoned Heremes...so they'd have one less headache on their tight budget.

Amusing quote from your own page:

The Ares-1 data shows that the new 1st stage 5-segments SRB has the same Isp of the "old" 4-segments SRB and adds a +7% to the SRB's peak thrust (now is 3,510,791 lbf.)

Why would you expect a different Isp? They use the same fuel and have a related configuration - differening H2/LOX rocket also have same Isp as well by same token.

cIclops · 2008-02-06 03:00:13

Ares Quarterly Report - January 2008 - YouTube Video 5:22 mins

o Wind tunnel testing
o First stage main parachute testing & production
o First stage 4 segment test
o Ares I-X TVC tests
o New first stage nozzle construction
o Assembly of 5 segment motor
o Fabrication of US LH2 tank panels
o Evaluation of friction stir welding tool
o New vertical weld tool
o Valve testing
o E-3 subscale diffuser testing
o Construction of new A-3 test stand
o J-2X powerpack testing

Also from the FY 2009 Budget Request Full Document (5.9 Mb PDF) - 4 Feb 2008

Ares I milestones:

Aug 2008 Preliminary Design Review
Mar 2010 Critical Design Review
Apr 2013 Ares I First Flight (Full Functional Configuration - Orion 1)
Mar 2015 Ares I First Operational Flight

gaetanomarano · 2008-02-06 03:03:27

composites materials

its seems that composites ADD weights since the early LockMart specs was around 8.5 mT while, now, the Orion is over 10.5 mT...

also, the 5th segment of the SRB, the SM, the SM propellent, the 2nd stage dry mass, the 2nd stage propellent and the LAS can't be replaced with "composites"

...shuttle has more dead weight...

that's true, but the Shuttle was designed to be REUSABLE several times per year and land on runway to save the (very expensive) retrieval costs of capsules (then it needs wings)

the fact that it has failed to reach is goal, is due to its high (and growing) MAINTENANCE cost, not to its wings

last, a "dead-weight" is everything launched WITHOUT a purpose (like the 5th and 6th seats in 99% of Orion missions) while, the Shuttle wings actually HAVE a purpose (you like it or not)

.

RedStreak · 2008-02-06 03:28:13

...shuttle has more dead weight...
that's true, but the Shuttle was designed to be REUSABLE several times per year and land on runway to save the (very expensive) retrieval costs of capsules (then it needs wings)
the fact that it has failed to reach is goal, is due to its high (and growing) MAINTENANCE cost, not to its wings
last, a "dead-weight" is everything launched WITHOUT a purpose (like the 5th and 6th seats in 99% of Orion missions) while, the Shuttle wings actually HAVE a purpose (you like it or not).

An extremely limited purpose that's not cost effective.

You identified the interstage as 'dead weight' I noted - considering the 'brains' of the rocket are housed there it isn't. Every rocket has parts that are disposable, shuttle included and not just the ET tank. The point of rocket pieces seperating, as I hope you know but seem to forget, is that once their function is done they're cut off to reduce weight. The engineers designing Ares are also following that function.

There are times I ponder if your common sense was jettisoned instead of some of the spam pouring out...

gaetanomarano · 2008-02-06 03:43:23

...that's not cost effective...

that's true only for the first (experimental) Shuttle, not for future (better and cheaper) Shuttles if the latter will have airline jets like per-flight costs

...identified the interstage as 'dead weight' I noted...

no, it's the 2nd stage extra-mass

.

cIclops · 2008-02-07 12:22:15

Interview with NASA's leader by William Harwood - 7 Feb 2008

Q: On a different topic, the Ares rocket and the Constellation program continue to generate questions among outside observers as to viability of the rocket system, due to vibration and other issues, and the overall architecture of the moon program. Why is that?
A: Let me get down to the bottom of it. There were winners and losers in the contractor community as to who was going to get to do what on the next system post shuttle. And we didn't pick (Lockheed Martin's) Atlas 5, in consultation with the Air Force for that matter, because it wasn't the right vehicle for the lunar job. Obviously, we did pick others. So people who didn't get picked see an opportunity to throw the issue into controversy and maybe have it come out their way.
In point of fact, the thrust oscillation, as it's called, on Ares 1 is not a significant problem and to the extent that it needs solutions, we've got three or four ways to go after it. We can put damping mechanisms between the first and second stage, beteween the second stage and Orion or within Orion itself to locally isolate things. This is something that's done on almost all of our unmanned vehicles, they have solid strap-ons and this thrust oscillation issue is one of the vibration drivers on most satellite vehicles and the satellites designed to fly on them have damping and isolation devices at the frequencies of interest, and that's what we'll do here.
I think you have been around long enough to know technically this is just not a big deal. It's about winners and losers. In the larger context, it's about winners and losers and people seeing an opportunity to reclaim a share of the pie that was lost. And I hate it when it comes to that. But that's it. The fact of the matter is, Ares, the rocket, and Constellation, the program, are designed to go to the moon and to provide a capability, if necessary, to service the space station in Earth orbit.
The Atlas 5 needs substantial upgrades in order to be a useful part of the lunar architecture and those upgrades, when we added them all up, cost more than the Ares 1. It's that simple. Now if you just want to go to low-Earth orbit and nowhere else, then the Atlas 5 will do just fine. And I encourage its use for that. What I don't encourage is for people to say that going to low-Earth orbit and stopping there again is a good goal. That's not what we're tyring to do. We're trying to get back to the moon and we want to go on to Mars. And that needs something bigger.

cIclops · 2008-02-16 09:23:48

Boeing, Other Ares I Upper Stage Contractors Sign Associates Agreement

ST. LOUIS, Feb. 15, 2008 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] has signed an associate contractor's agreement (ACA) with five other aerospace companies to work together on the Ares I upper stage. The agreement will save NASA time and resources by ensuring its contractors work together seamlessly.
The ACA was formed with those companies that have key contracts with Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC) in Huntsville, Ala., on the Ares I upper stage. Participating companies include Aerojet, Boeing, Hamilton Sundstrand, Jacobs Engineering Group Inc., Moog Inc., and Teledyne Brown Engineering Inc.
"The Ares I upper stage associates are being proactive and using the resources of our respective companies to resolve technical issues before they become problems for NASA," said Jim Chilton, Boeing vice president and program manager of Exploration Launch Systems.
Roger Campbell, Ares I upper stage program integration manager for Boeing, added, "NASA has encouraged us to use this approach to work together, transition complementary activities and resolve issues ourselves wherever possible." Boeing uses a similar approach on the International Space Station program.
Each company performs a wide variety of work for NASA. Aerojet has an advanced development contract for the first stage roll control system, which helps control the rocket during first stage flight. Hamilton Sundstrand, a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp. (NYSE:UTX), has an advanced development contract on the turbine pump assembly for the thrust vector control (TVC) system, which steers the upper stage engine. Under an engineering services contract, Jacobs is providing design support for MSFC. Moog Inc. has several advanced technology development contracts with NASA, including a prevalve for the main propulsion system and actuators and controllers for the TVC system. Teledyne Brown Engineering, under its support contract, is helping NASA with manufacturing process development of the Ares I-X test vehicle, including its roll control system, and other engineering support and test-related tasks.

cIclops · 2008-03-01 02:27:37

Propellant casting mandrel, from: Ares I Stage 1 (PDF 3MB) - 26 Feb 2008

• Ares I Main Parachute Cluster Drop Test #1 (CDT-1) scheduled for 15 April 2008
• Ares I Preliminary Design Review (PDR) June 2008
• Ares I-X hardware deliveries to KSC beginning summer 2008
• Ares 1-X Test Flight April 2009
• Ares I First Stage DM-1 Ground Test April 2009

SpaceNut · 2008-03-01 08:22:36

Wow that's huge but from the image it is still not possible to tell how many sides the fuel will be allowed to burn on from the star pattern as this affects ISP.

cIclops · 2008-03-01 09:04:38

There's more details in that document where it says 12 forward fins compared with 11 for the 4 segment motor.

GCNRevenger · 2008-03-01 11:26:32

It actually won't affect Isp much, since this is a function of the fuel typically. It will change the burn rate/thrust however.

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-01 16:47:15

It will change the burn rate/thrust however.

that means its propellent will burn 9.1% faster, so, the burn time should fall from 128 seconds to 116.3 seconds

the thrust may be increased in a similar value, that means the (known) past SRB-5 had a lack of thrust, like the 4+1 SRB test has shown in 2003 and like I've said in my SRB-5 and Ares-1 articles (so, I was right, again... )

.

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