putting talents to use for mars society

cwegner · 2003-01-07 15:40:39

Probably not the ideal place to make this post, but I'll put a shout of here and see what kind of responce I get.

I have been aware of the Mars Society existance for quiet some time now and have been following it a little bit. Some things in my life has changed now and I've got some time and dollars I can dedicate.

I've got a lot of experience as a computer programmer/developer mainly on the Windows platform, but experience with linux as well. I could probably put some very powerful programs together for you guys.

Can I be of service?

clark · 2003-01-07 17:00:04

Contact Adrian (the Admin for the message board) and he might have some ideas.

Josh has put together some programs in the past, so maybe he has some ideas to.

I'm sure others have suggestions, but those two might be a step in the rigfht direction.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-07 17:22:25

Crap, that reminds me, I found an infinite loop bug in my table code (for UseMod)! Plus some other minor bugs that lowercased text unintentionally, and stuff like that. Adrian hasn't implemented it yet (maybe he forgot or just doesn't want to), but I really ought to update that thread with the good version (which I tested thoroughly).

I'm always willing to donate my coding ablities as well. There are some projects I've been working on, like realistic renders of Mars, and some plasma physics stuff, but my skills in the graphics and higher order maths areas are lacking, so I'm basically learning as I go along.

Anyway, off to update that friggin code.

Adrian · 2003-01-07 17:49:48

Well, I can't think of any specific projects at the moment although I'm sure some will come to mind eventually. Do you guys have any good ideas?

Just wildly brainstorming for the moment, my personal interests would be to make something that would help the Mars Society's public outreach and involve a lot of people. I think some web game might be cool. Also, an issue close to my heart is improving the web and internet communications, and basically the entire online Mission Support infrastructure, for the Mars Society Habs and in particular, the EuroMars Hab.

In any case, I'm sure that when Robert Dyck catches sight of this thread he'll add both of you to the list of Mars Society resources and personnel he's building up.

soph · 2003-01-07 18:14:40

I'm fairly good at writing things, you may have seen my greenpeace letter.

I can also do a decent programming job, but my friend is incredible. he won the national pepsi website challenge last year, a national deca event.

there are a lot of other things i can do, which i will mention as i think of them.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-07 20:24:50

Not to dumb down my willingness, because I'm totally willing to help in any areas I'm capable in, I should just note that my perl coding ablities are relatively new, and are mostly based in regexp knowledge.

Just to give a simple rundown of what I can help with: a little Perl (modifying stuff is easier than writing something anew), C, and... that's about it, really.

RobertDyck · 2003-01-08 00:38:47

Ok, I've been named. Well, I did volunteer at the steering committee meeting to be the volunteer coordinator. The technology roadmap team has been quiet for the last few months, and I haven't received any request for volunteers for projects yet. However, I do have a few projects I could use help with.

One idea is a Mars simulation game. There are a couple games out there right now, but what I have in mind is a lot more accurate and less graphic. There would be 2 parts to it. First you could enter the specifications of your Mars spacecraft and fly it to Mars. It would have some detailed calculations to allow you to engineer a spacecraft based on tank mass, engine mass, specific impulse (fuel efficiency), payload mass, etc. Formulas would check the design. The second part would fly a simulated mission with your spacecraft. The graphics are not that important, it doesn't require fancy 3D with texture maps, just an icon moving along a trajectory about the sun to its destination. However, the simulation software could be ultra-realistic. The spacecraft navigation can be real, and the "game" a simulation test bed.

There are a lot of parts to something like this. The GUI user interface would be written in Visual C++ or Visual Basic. The navigation software, however, would have to be strictly C language. The navigation software would have to run on the operating system QNX, but the simulation would run on a PC. That gets into portable code.

Now this gets interesting because one component of the navigation is astronomical image recognition. A comparison of the image of known asteroids to the star background can triangulate the spacecraft's current position. That requires taking a digital image and recognising key stars and known asteroids. I accumulated a few code samples, but image recognition is not one of my specialties. I am a programmer myself.

We could get extreme and start entering gravitational perturbations from an increasing number of planets and asteroids, and even enter the orbits of known asteroids to avoid collision. We could also include the math of unusual orbital manoeuvres such as continuous thrust all the way to Mars, or slowing raising the orbit of a spacecraft with an ion engine.

It could be quite interesting. Any takers?

Phobos · 2003-01-08 02:35:36

I have the perfect idea for a game. It's a political game where there will be two roles for the player, either that of "Commissar", where the player must micromanage the lives of his sheep by sending out jackbooted thugs to ensure that individuals are duly sacrificing themselves tirelessly for the Martian state and show no will of their own, or that of "Professional" where the player will be given control over a little subgroup that they have "expertise" in. I.E., a medical "Professional" will rack up points when a new medical discovery is found after sacrificing an unwilling individual in a cruel but "necessary" medical experiment for the good of the state. Bonus points will be awarded if the "Professional" also makes an attractive lampshade from the skin of his last subject. I recommend that Clark be consulted frequently during the development of this game.

clark · 2003-01-08 12:26:18

LOL.

Thanks Phobos!

If a game is the goal though, might I suggest this:

Luna vs. Mars

Put simply, a race to colonize.

The game centers around creating a colony first, when both parties start from slightly equal positions- Luna, less resources to start with, but closer proximity to Earth, some economic advantages.

Mars, able to live off the land a bit more, but further from Earth, less economic advantage.

Just a broad outline- the details can be developed if there is any interest.

Either way, people are thinking about colonizing space

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-08 17:32:50

Interesting about QNX. Why must the software run on QNX? I have QNX on this computer, quite a lovely piece of software. Just curious as to why you need it that way. (I love portable code, too.) Just to reiterate, I'm not a great math guy, having very little knowledge of anything higher than trig, to be quite honest. I fear I couldn't help much on the specific project you mentioned Robert. Not until I at least assimilate the necessary information.

clark, ahahaha! I have finally corrupted you beyond repair. You can't go back now.

I love that idea. And I think using basic Darwinian type of gameplay (ie, the game of Life- species grow and die proportionate to their capacities and resources) we can have a pretty realistic simulation. Such agame could be interesting. We could have the Mars Society people play against the Luna people (can't think of those people who want to colonize the moon).

I bet Luna would win, by virtue of the fact that the moon is nearer and so on. But I bet Mars would be more autonomous, and Martian culture will be much more disjunct from Lunas' (we could prove this by comparing the resources each colony uses and so on- we'd probably find that Martians would use local resources whereas Luna would have a more market approach, and use Terran resources).

Echus_Chasma · 2003-01-08 19:10:03

Has anyone heard of the game Outpost?

It might be good to sorta base any Mars PC game on the good things about it. But, It was a real bitch of a game and it was so badly programmed it wasn't funny. It had got a good idea and I liked how it sorta worked, basically a massive astroid was heading to earth so everyone left to find a planet to settle down on and then create a new society. The storyline and the interface were cool but the gameplay was utter crap. Personally I would like it if another game of that sorta genre was released but better. Not like Outpost II which mixed with Command and Conquer, I hate real time strategy games like C&C.

A link about the game, there is also similar type of games at the bottom of the page: http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=2423

I can't find anywhere to download it, you can buy it if you want but I wouldn't see why you would want to. It's a real bollox of a game and it wouldn't work on any half-decent computer anymore.

Lunar Command might be worth looking at as a base for a game also.

RobertDyck · 2003-01-08 23:32:00

QNX is a high-reliability operating system. It does not use virtual memory at all because it is intended for embedded applications that must respond quickly to hardware interrupts; it cannot wait for a process to be swapped in, or a subroutine to be paged in. A real probe to Mars demands a high reliability system such as QNX or VxWorks. Both of these have been demonstrated in space: VxWorks was used on Mars Pathfinder, QNX on CanadArm2. I know QNX, not VxWorks. Sorry for the bias for something I know.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-09 00:11:33

No need to be sorry at all, I personally like QNX myself (it's free for personal use, after all). Are you thinking of using this software in an actual probe, to do actual navigation? Sounds like it! Being involved in something like that could be awesome.

A site of interest might be: http://www.openchannelsoftware.com

RobertDyck · 2003-01-10 00:23:40

Yes, I am talking about developing actual software to be used on an actual probe. The game is just a test bed, and a means to mass market it. We might want to sell it, or make it freely available to Mars Society members. This would permit average members like you and me to design Mars missions and test them with a simulation accurate enough to fly a real mission.

Peabody · 2003-01-28 12:13:40

I should hang around here more often.

The Mars Society Web site NEEDS a team of bright folks to completely rewrite the back end (Membership / Financial) part of the web. The current sign-up procedure leaves a wee bit to be desired. It is currently written to run on a Microsoft SQL / ASP server shared with about a billion other customers. I have set up a Linux / PostgreSQL / Apache / PHP machine and want to move the data, forms, and eventually the whole web site to a dedicated machine. But I never seem to have any free time to get this started.

There are one or two folks already working on this project, but I bet a team of 3 - 6 of you clever types could do this in less than a week. I'd prolly even support an easter-egg of the team... somewhere...

Lemme know...
Harold Miller
Webmaster, The Mars Society
ms@nw.net

soph · 2003-01-28 12:27:00

I prefer win 2k to any other os....just easier to work with, imho.

Im no web site admin-but couldnt you use an external hard drive, back up the web site data to it, then put it on your linux system, and transfer the data over on to that system? Wouldnt take more than a day or two.

GDavid · 2003-03-06 18:08:25

Not sure if this is the best thread for it, but;

Robert Zubrin scheduled guest on Coast to Coast Am radio talk show for Sunday, March 9.
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

soph · 2003-03-08 10:16:51

I'll put it in the right spot.

Palomar · 2003-03-21 12:59:26

I think one element lacking from the Mars Society pages is imagery. Although you probably have some of the best artwork owned by any space group including the Planetary Society, I would argue you need more. An image says a thousand words. In gaining public support you must steal their imagination. The average man on the street doesn't know Mars Direct from Mail Order Brides. There aren't enough space fanatics out there to drive forward an ambition such as going to Mars. You have to increase that supporter base. I wouldn't be far wrong in stating that there are more serious sci/fi junkies than serious space supporters and what little support is out there gets divided up among many different organisations. You need a larger support base. Until you gain an adequate pool of talent and resources Mars Direct can't fly. What grabs the sci/fi crowd and holds them is imagery. Special effects and mindblowing visions of a future that seems impossible but offers hope of becoming real. People want to be shown what space promises them.

*I couldn't agree more. Given that the average Westerner is literally bombarded day-in, day-out with advertising ploys, billboards, internet pop-up ads (annoying!), television and radio commercials, etc., etc...well, it's easy to see how difficult it is to GET a person's attention and MAINTAIN it to any degree. The noise to information ratio is what, probably 500:1?

Added to that, many people probably tend to think of Mars Society and related organizations (if they've heard of them) as "full of eggheads" or "full of UFO buffs"...who knows what sorts of preconceived notions they have.

The Mars Society needs to be more visible; I agree. It doesn't have to be a flashy or gaudy visibility, either. Simple, streamlined and savvy would do the trick -- and imagery can be those things as well.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-03-21 13:47:41

*The Mars Society could also write whoever is in charge of the Science section of Yahoo! News and ask that the MS web site be included in the links section within the "Mars Exploration" section.

If you opt for News Front Page > Full Coverage > Science within Yahoo! news, you will see a list of news TOPICS. One of these is "Mars Exploration." Clicking it reveals sections (on one page) of News Stories, Related Web Sites (ahem!), 2001 Mars Odyssey, etc.

The Mars Society could -- and should -- request inclusion under the "Related Web Sites" section; this would definitely increase our visibility.

Who to contact? Robert Dyck, you correspond with the Zubrins personally, right? I don't have their e-mail addresses, nor those for persons on the Steering Committee, etc. Someone in charge should contact Yahoo! and request inclusion.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-03-23 00:36:47

I've been working on making Martian renders with PovRay for awhile now (in my spare time), trying to mimic the stuff that Kees Veenenbos has done (interestingly, he was interviewed by New Mars, here, only with a higher level of realism (Kees points out that the curvature of his renders if off, Mars would have a much tighter horizon). The problem is that with PovRay making realistic landscapes is non-trivial, and I have made very little progress.

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#1 2003-01-07 15:40:39

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#2 2003-01-07 17:00:04

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#3 2003-01-07 17:22:25

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#4 2003-01-07 17:49:48

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#5 2003-01-07 18:14:40

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#6 2003-01-07 20:24:50

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#7 2003-01-08 00:38:47

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#8 2003-01-08 02:35:36

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#9 2003-01-08 12:26:18

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#10 2003-01-08 17:32:50

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#11 2003-01-08 19:10:03

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#12 2003-01-08 23:32:00

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#13 2003-01-09 00:11:33

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#14 2003-01-10 00:23:40

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#15 2003-01-28 12:13:40

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#16 2003-01-28 12:27:00

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#17 2003-03-06 18:08:25

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#18 2003-03-08 10:16:51

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#19 2003-03-21 12:59:26

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#20 2003-03-21 13:47:41

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

#21 2003-03-23 00:36:47

Re: putting talents to use for mars society

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