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Time for NASA to retire its aging shuttle fleet
http://www.azcentral.com/news/opinions/ … ins15.html
E.J. Perkins , editorial writer
'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )
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Time for NASA to retire its aging shuttle fleet
http://www.azcentral.com/news/opinions/ … ins15.html
E.J. Perkins , editorial writer
The Shuttle will retire in 2010 where we'll have a completed 13 year old space station. That is soon enough for me. Over a decade of effort went into this space station, that has to be recognized. The Shuttle is set to retire in 2010 when the last piece of the ISS which is lifted by the shuttle is attached to the ISS. We're giving NASA 3 more years to complete the ISS and then we move on. I think keeping that schedule predictable will allow NASA scientists and engineers to deliver the most for the resources and effort already spend. After 2010 the shuttle program ends and we're left with whatever we've managed to assemble in orbit for the ISS. The ISS is scheduled to operate for 4 years after that and maybe longer. We can check off the boxes next to Manned Moon Landing, and continously inhabited space station assembled in pieces in Low Earth Orbit. Aside from the hardware were building in orbit, we are building expertise, from that experience, we'll know what to do when assembling that Moonbase, which is the next item on the agenda. Our previous experience in manned moon landings and our experience with the ISS will help up in building the Moonbase. The Moonbase will in turn help us to build the Marsbase that is a requirement for the first expedition to Mars. Experience with manned Mars flights will also help us prepare for missions to the asteroids. Digging into the Asteroids will help us to build asteroid colonies and thus exploit the material resources of the Solar System which are largely held in the Asteroid Belt, that is next outward from the Sun after Mars.
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Adding to Tom's last message, the space station office was established at JSC in April 1984, that's 23 years ago! AFAIK there is no schedule for the end of ISS operations, currently it should continue until at least 2016, that's six years after the Shuttle retires. RSA have plans to further extend ISS during that time, so ISS may grow even more.
With full funding, Orion should be providing crew access to ISS in September 2013. A support module providing extra propulsion and supplies will make Orion capable of asteroid missions even before the next Lunar landing. Lunar operations could begin by 2016 and work can begin on the Mars vehicles in parallel with establishing the Lunar Outpost. All this is technically possible given the will to do it.
[color=darkred]Let's go to Mars and far beyond - triple NASA's budget ![/color] [url=irc://freenode#space] #space channel !! [/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/c1cl0ps] - videos !!![/url]
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Not without the Russians' contribution between the Shuttle and the Orion interval. Why isn't their input even mentioned? I read that a Russian proposal to be a Moon landing contributor has on been turned down, and that they intend to go it alone as a consequence. Why this lack of vision on our part, when we of Earth are at risk through such shortsightedness? At risk, that is, of being overwhelmed by not-yet-space-aware developing nations' demands for equity (in the terrestrial sense) before the next stages you are predicting with such confidence have a chance to even "get off the ground!"
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NASA has a contract for crew and cargo serices with RSA, so after 2010 US astronauts will be able to use Soyuz vehicles through 2011. Unless COTS succeeds, this contract will have to be extended until Orion is operational in 2013 or later. ESA, Japanese and Canadian astronauts will also have to find ways to access ISS.
AFAIK there was no formal proposal from RSA to NASA about involvement in the lunar program. NASA have said that they welcome other agencies getting involved in the lunar outpost. NASA got burned once by RSA with the ISS service module, that delayed ISS construction by two years, here's a report about what happened
[color=darkred]Let's go to Mars and far beyond - triple NASA's budget ![/color] [url=irc://freenode#space] #space channel !! [/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/c1cl0ps] - videos !!![/url]
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Not without the Russians' contribution between the Shuttle and the Orion interval. Why isn't their input even mentioned? I read that a Russian proposal to be a Moon landing contributor has on been turned down, and that they intend to go it alone as a consequence. Why this lack of vision on our part, when we of Earth are at risk through such shortsightedness? At risk, that is, of being overwhelmed by not-yet-space-aware developing nations' demands for equity (in the terrestrial sense) before the next stages you are predicting with such confidence have a chance to even "get off the ground!"
We already depend in part on Russia for our oil, is that not enough?
We have already participated with the Russians in the contruction of the ISS, and now they are threatening us with bombers and new ICBMs, little good as the ISS been in getting us to live more peacefully with the Russians, and as Putin has made clear to us, he needs the United States to be an enemy rather than a friend. Do you want to get to the Moon and to Mars, or do you want to make an unappreciated gesture to Russia, and also assist them with their rocket technology so they can build ICBMs that threaten our cities rather than helping us to fight terrorism, it seems to me that we should not reward this behavior on the part of Russia. We can get to the Moon by ourselves or with some real allies who don't point their missiles at our cities! If Russia changes, if they become truly democratic rather than a dictatorship and a republic in name only, then we can reevaluate our relationship with them, but until that happens, we should go it with out them, after all we don't want to have to rely on a potentially hostile power for any components of our Moon or Mars program.
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No doubt you're right, Tom. But time's awastin' and the old arguments, like "rewarding them" are out of date. The world is ready now and maybe not next decade ... or is it just that I'm worried I won't live long enought to see a reliable international space transportation system in place, and us safely off Earth? I represent the present generation of space pioneering enthusiasts, at 82, and you're not the spring chicken you may think you are either.
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People have put their lives into the Shuttle and Space Station too, it would be a shame to just throw it away. If we did, how could we trust that we would see the Mars program to its completion if we could just as easily scrap that too with shifting political winds?
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Exactly.
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I posted a schedule where we could launch remaining components of the station using Russian Energia launch vehicles and just a few American shuttles. I would have been completed much more quickly. It required restructuring launches after the Colombia dissaster; the launches since then have already messed it up. It's too late now, America is committed to using the Shuttle to complete ISS.
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I posted a schedule where we could launch remaining components of the station using Russian Energia launch vehicles and just a few American shuttles. I would have been completed much more quickly. It required restructuring launches after the Colombia dissaster; the launches since then have already messed it up. It's too late now, America is committed to using the Shuttle to complete ISS.
The remaining station components (trusses/nodes/laboratories) can not be launched by ELVs without extensive redesign or repackaging, the acceleration forces are too high. This scheme would also require the development of an upper stage capable of docking with ISS. Furthermore Energia does not exist now and would require RSA to restart its development program.
[color=darkred]Let's go to Mars and far beyond - triple NASA's budget ![/color] [url=irc://freenode#space] #space channel !! [/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/c1cl0ps] - videos !!![/url]
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I would think they keep the blueprints. The key is for the folks in Dubai to relocate an Energiya production facility there.
They have the oil money.
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