Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

cIclops · 2007-09-21 12:15:25

NEO missions could come before the Moon. They need far less propellant than a lunar landing and return, and no complicated lunar lander. What's more exciting is that such missions involve a voyage of several weeks and take people much further away than the moon, and of course to another new world.

Ares V would not be needed to reach the close NEOs, just one Ares I for crew launch and another one or even an EELV to lift a transit vehicle with extra propulsion, supplies and maybe an airlock. This transit vehicle could be a prototype MTV. Going to the main asteroid belt is a far longer and more difficult journey, it's halfway between Mars and Jupiter! Yes after Mars they would be tempting targets and of course one day the Jovian system itself ... and beyond.

Tom Kalbfus · 2007-09-21 15:15:08

NEO missions could come before the Moon. They need far less propellant than a lunar landing and return, and no complicated lunar lander. What's more exciting is that such missions involve a voyage of several weeks and take people much further away than the moon, and of course to another new world.
Ares V would not be needed to reach the close NEOs, just one Ares I for crew launch and another one or even an EELV to lift a transit vehicle with extra propulsion, supplies and maybe an airlock. This transit vehicle could be a prototype MTV. Going to the main asteroid belt is a far longer and more difficult journey, it's halfway between Mars and Jupiter! Yes after Mars they would be tempting targets and of course one day the Jovian system itself ... and beyond.

Except the mission duration for a visit to an NEO is longer than for a trip to the Moon. Orbital mechanics suggests that a minimum energy transfer orbit to an NEO would take about a year. Typically the mission duration is half the duration of the asteroid's orbit plus half the duration of Earth's orbit. That means a trip on an asteroid that's in Earth's orbit would take a year. A mission equipped for a 2 week mission to the Moon and back is less demanding as far as supplies are concerned than a trip to a typical NEO. The propellent usage for a mission that massed the same as a Lunar mission might be less, but the crew would have to carry more food, more oxygen, and would have to endure zero g for a much longer period than the typical Moon mission. So lets make sure we know what were doing when we go to the Moon before we make any trips into interplanetary space.

One other question is what we intend to do once we send people to an asteroid.

Should we try to alter the asteroid's orbit?

Should we try to mine the asteroid?

Should we try to convert it into a space station?

Asteroids come in all sizes, I'm sure there are some we can manipulate. One idea that comes to mind is altering an asteroid's orbit so that it cycles between Earth and Mars, it could then offer radiation protection from Solar Flares, and if they burrow deep inside perhaps cosmic rays as well.

I think it might be a good idea for NASA to try some asteroid mining, if they develop the technology sufficiently, then private industry might take it over from there.

cIclops · 2007-09-21 16:19:06

The abstract of Abell et al's recent paper (PDF) says:

The ideal mission profile would involve a crew of 2 or 3 astronauts on a 90 to 120 day flight, which would include a 7 to 14 day stay for proximity operations at the target NEO.

They also go on to describe what can be done there with Orion class technology namely: survey, package deployment and sample return.

A 90 day voyage would be a good start to deep space exploration, to boldy go ....

SpaceNut · 2007-09-21 21:29:50

So the question is then one of what else do we need once the Orion is developed to allow for the duration of the mission and then of exploring the NEO that is selected. Can any of what is currently being used for the ISS module or other items of it be redesigned for such a task or is it clean sheet all over again?
Also how does this help Mars missions when Life support is the most massive and will need to be almost 95% or better IMO with recycling technology and resources?

Austin Stanley · 2007-09-22 00:27:39

A NEO mission would be a great shakedown mission for testing the long duration life-support capabilities of the ITV/Hab or ERV ala DRM III. Especially since if the ITV/Hab had to do a free-return abort it would be in space for a similar or longer period of time.

Important as well would be to get some indepth analysis of the composition of an asteroid. This could make later attempts to deflect one if necessary much more successful.

cIclops · 2007-09-22 04:01:21

Yep there are many good reasons to do this, all NASA needs is the funds to get Ares I and Orion finished quicker and extra money for these missions. This is the type of project that would focus public opinion onto human missions again with all the benefits of stimulating education, technology and science. And when this is achieved more people will start to say let's go on to Mars.

From LeCompte et al's paper (PDF)

Of the 7 mission opportunities considered, all required a delta v comparable to that required for Earth escape to rendezvous with the target object. In general, return to Earth required a relatively small delta v, usually less than 1 km/sec, with aero-braking assumed for recovery of the crew at Earth. No lunar gravitational assists were modeled and may provide a means of achieving some reduction in IMLEO. All missions assumed use of a cryogenic escape or earth departure stage and a separate, smaller cryogenic NEO Rendezvous Stage (NRS), also Centaur derived. Use of cryogens for the rendezvous maneuver motivates selection of the fastest possible outbound leg to minimize propellant loss. The modeled initial leg to target 2003 LN6 was 35 days; while all but one of the remainder required less than 20 days with three needing only about 2 weeks to reach the target object.

publiusr · 2007-11-09 14:23:45

I wont to see it mined. I would think tethers could also be used to cut the asteroid in the same way cables sliced through the kursk. in that several asteroids rotate, it may be possible to adjust the axis of rotation over time--and convert the body (if solid) into a bola of sorts. Cut the cable to move half the asteroid where you want it.

If the tether is strong enough (and long enough), you might deposit half the space rock down to earths surface at the end of such a bola, and to snatch up increadibly heavy cargos from earths surface--using the remaining asteroid half to do a clean and jerk to orbit.

The heaviest payloads might be jerked to orbit in such a fashion.

cIclops · 2007-11-11 06:20:18

ISRU would be far easier, less risky and expensive and much more useful.

Cutting chucks off an asteroid and moving them to the Earth's surface would require an enormous amount of energy. It's hard to see that it would be any better than simply digging deeper mines on Earth. Asteroid engineering on this scale is something for the next century.

Terraformer · 2007-11-11 06:53:43

Asteroid engineering on this scale is something for the next century.

WHAT!?!?! You think it will take 93 yrs to develop enough???!?!?!?

cIclops · 2007-11-11 07:02:55

WHAT!?!?! You think it will take 93 yrs to develop enough???!?!?!?

To cut up a megaton asteroid and to safely deliver the pieces to the Earth's surface? Yes.

Terraformer · 2007-11-11 07:20:07

With 5% of Technophoenixs R&D team working on it?

Terraformer · 2007-12-02 08:59:59

Here's an even better idea than a station for refueling and repairing creft in HEO. A shipyard that will actually build the craft. Later it could construct more refinaries for the ores mined from Coorbitals and Asteroids. It could also construct farms in orbit. It would get an infrastructure going. All this could be achieved without going to Mars once. Once the Infrastructure is in place a Mars mission will be easy.

mjsimon · 2008-01-08 16:12:29

An idea from an old mid 90's paper, by some folks on the Mining side of things.

http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/a … /822/1/511

Basically, most asteroids have spin to them. You put a tether down in the main mass, and you send the stuff you want to keep down the tether. Calculate when you need to release it to sling it toward Earth, and you have a velocity boost requiring very little reaction mass.

There is lots of other stuff in the paper, but I found that particularly useful from an economic point of view.

cIclops · 2008-05-13 08:51:41

Nasa plans landing on 40m-wide asteroid - 7 May 2008 - by Ian Sample

It was once considered the most dangerous object in the universe, heading for Earth with the explosive power of 84 Hiroshimas. Now an asteroid called 2000SG344, a lump of rock barely the size of a large yacht, is in the spotlight again, this time as a contender for the next giant leap for mankind.
Nasa engineers have identified the 1.1m tonne asteroid, which in 2000 was given a significant chance of slamming into Earth, as a potential landing site for astronauts, ahead of the Bush administration's plans to venture deeper into the solar system with a crewed voyage to Mars.
The mission - the first to what officials call a Near Earth Object (NEO) - is being floated within the US space agency as a crucial stepping stone to future space exploration.
A report seen by the Guardian notes that by sending astronauts on a three-month journey to the hurtling asteroid, scientists believe they would learn more about the psychological effects of long-term missions and the risks of working in deep space, and it would allow astronauts to test kits to convert subsurface ice into drinking water, breathable oxygen and even hydrogen to top up rocket fuel. All of which would be invaluable before embarking on a two-year expedition to Mars.
Under the Bush administration, Nasa has been charged with sending astronauts back to the moon, beginning in 2020 and culminating in a permanent lunar outpost, itself a jumping off point for more distant Mars missions. With the agency's ageing fleet of space shuttles due to be retired soon after 2010, the agency has begun work on a replacement called Orion and a series of Ares rockets that will blast them into orbit.
In a study due to be published next month, engineers at Nasa's Johnson Space Centre in Houston and Ames Research Centre in California flesh out plans to use Orion for a three to six month round-trip to the asteroid, with astronauts spending a week or two on the rock's surface.
As well as giving space officials a taste of more complex missions, samples taken from the rock could help scientists understand more about the birth of the solar system and how best to defend against asteroids that veer into Earth's path.
"An asteroid will one day be on a collision course with Earth. Doesn't it make sense, after going to the moon, to start learning more about them? Our study shows it makes perfect sense to do this soon after going back to the moon," said Rob Landis, an engineer at Johnson Space Centre and co-author of the report, which is due to be published in the journal Acta Astronautica.
More precise measurements of the orbit of 2000SG344 have allayed fears that it could hit Earth sometime around the end of September 2030, but the asteroid is still expected to come close in astronomical terms.
The report lays out plans for a crew of two to rendezvous with a speeding asteroid that is due to pass close by Earth. After a seven-week outward journey, the Orion capsule would swing around and close in on the rock.

GCNRevenger · 2008-05-14 07:39:44

WHAT!?!?! You think it will take 93 yrs to develop enough???!?!?!?
To cut up a megaton asteroid and to safely deliver the pieces to the Earth's surface? Yes.

I agree with cIclops, 93 years is probably about right, barring some Kurzweilian singularity.

GCNRevenger · 2008-05-14 07:43:17

An idea from an old mid 90's paper, by some folks on the Mining side of things.
http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/a … /822/1/511
Basically, most asteroids have spin to them. You put a tether down in the main mass, and you send the stuff you want to keep down the tether. Calculate when you need to release it to sling it toward Earth, and you have a velocity boost requiring very little reaction mass.
There is lots of other stuff in the paper, but I found that particularly useful from an economic point of view.

Nonsense, the technology to mine in space will be radically different than on the ground, and you can't aim a tether even if it were long enough to give much of a boost, which it probably isn't. I also bet you would have trouble keeping the thing taught.

cIclops · 2008-05-14 08:49:04

The energetics say it all. Launching from the equator of a 1 km radius asteroid with a rotation period of 10 hours gives a velocity boost of 0.62 kms/hr.

GCNRevenger · 2008-05-14 15:37:29

The energetics say it all. Launching from the equator of a 1 km radius asteroid with a rotation period of 10 hours gives a velocity boost of 0.62 kms/hr.

IE not very much.

cIclops · 2008-05-17 01:52:04

From Constellation Enabled Missions (PDF 8MB) - 18 Jul 2007

Can we do it? Yes
• Constellation Program Elements (Ares & Orion) are capable of supporting a 2 or 3 crew Mission to a NEO.

Lots of details about different mission configurations, targets, trajectories and time lines.

With more funding this type of mission could be happening in the 2015 time frame!

Gregori · 2008-05-17 08:36:55

I rather like the idea of this mission as it will extend the presence of humans in space and give valuable experience on how to work on an asteroid.

If asteroid mining is ever to take off, this is the kinda mission we'll need to jump start it. I hope they do several such missions and test drilling and coring equipment on a NEO.

If we drilled into it, we could establish a base inside a NEO, protected from space radiation etc etc.

cIclops · 2008-05-18 01:19:12

Yes, this is the simplest of the proposed configurations and because it doesn't need an Ares V, it can happen much sooner. Unfortunately because it's using the small (think about that folks) Delta IV Heavy it can't reach many NEOs, however new ones are being discovered all the time.

Testing ways to dock and get samples would be one of the objectives as well as bringing them back for analysis!

cIclops · 2008-05-19 04:24:07

From Constellation Enabled Missions (PDF 8MB) - 18 Jul 2007

The are plenty of NEOs to keep explorers busy for a while!

Commodore · 2008-05-19 07:18:34

What these plans don't include is a whole lot of surface payload. Of course the best we can do is the equivalent of scuba dive on the surface, but we can teleoperate probes from earth.

Strap that Centaur stage to the surface and set up shop.

cIclops · 2008-05-19 11:52:08

First things first. Surface payloads can be adapted from Hayabusa or even the Rosetta comet lander, that's the "easy" part. And a good way to include partners.

First a mission has to be designed, then the hard part is to get it funded. Right now there are no suitable NEOs that the "Lower Bookend" configuration can reach. Apparently a follow on study may be approved.

GCNRevenger · 2008-05-19 20:48:30

Don't forget that the Orion capsule SM is supposed to have some space for science payload.

The hard part might be getting the capsule steady with respect to the asteroid though. Could a simple "landing gear" be added to the SM or something?

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#26 2007-09-21 12:15:25

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#27 2007-09-21 15:15:08

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#28 2007-09-21 16:19:06

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#29 2007-09-21 21:29:50

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#30 2007-09-22 00:27:39

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#31 2007-09-22 04:01:21

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#32 2007-11-09 14:23:45

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#33 2007-11-11 06:20:18

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#34 2007-11-11 06:53:43

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#35 2007-11-11 07:02:55

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#36 2007-11-11 07:20:07

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#37 2007-12-02 08:59:59

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#38 2008-01-08 16:12:29

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#39 2008-05-13 08:51:41

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#40 2008-05-14 07:39:44

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#41 2008-05-14 07:43:17

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#42 2008-05-14 08:49:04

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#43 2008-05-14 15:37:29

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#44 2008-05-17 01:52:04

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#45 2008-05-17 08:36:55

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#46 2008-05-18 01:19:12

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#47 2008-05-19 04:24:07

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#48 2008-05-19 07:18:34

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#49 2008-05-19 11:52:08

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

#50 2008-05-19 20:48:30

Re: Near Earth Object (NEO) missions

Board footer