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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 5,823

Re: Potential Multi-World Future

Really a good article Calliban.  Many things lately are emerging to change the older views of realities.

I consider us fortunate to have the asteroid belt available, including the Jupiter Trojans.  These could give an approximation for a potential future human drift outward, into the void to many other worlds.

Most Kuiper/Oort/Interstellar objects will not be "Dry", so the outer belt, Hilda's, and Trojans will be good training for it.  And of course, Ceres will be Dwarf Planet practice.

In another post of yours in another topic, you indicated that Eris, could support the current population of Earth for billions of years.  That is presuming that Fusion was possible to use effectively.

I think it is likely that it will be possible "Down The Line", to tap the atmospheres of at least Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune for Fusion fuels.

And since Helion claims (Probably truthfully), that they can manufacture Helium 3 fuel, then I am going to guess that even p-p fusion will be available in some form eventually.

The view that small Oort Cloud objects will consist only of ices, is being challenged.  I read an article that indicated a value of 1-20% of the Oort Cloud objects will be "Metals", (As in star content), heavy elements.

To be lazy, I will imagine a 100-kilometer sized object which is cubic.  (Maybe the space aliens were amused to confuse us and so built one).  Am I correct for a volume number 100 * 100 * 100 = 1,000,000 cubic km?  So then, if 1% metals, then 10,000 cubic km of rock (with metals), if 20% then 20 times that or 2,000,000 km of rock.  (I try not to do more math that is needed for a visual).  So, we probably have not identified 100 km objects in the Kuiper Belt, but each might be a world in itself for humans who have the technology for it.

Estimated number of 100 km objects in the Kuiper Belt?
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/solar-syst … /overview/
Quote:

Overview | Kuiper Belt – NASA Solar System Exploration
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/solar-syst … t/overview
There may be hundreds of thousands of icy bodies larger than 100 km (62 miles) and an estimated trillion or more comets within the Kuiper Belt. 5 Spacesuit Required Some dwarf planets within the Kuiper Belt have thin atmospheres that collapse when their orbit carries them farthest from the Sun. 6 Tiny Moons See more

And that is to leave the Kuiper Belt Dwarf Planets aside, and the objects in the Oort Cloud and the objects beyond.

The material goods available before crossing halfway to the nearer stars, has to be mind boggling.  Granted at this time we are not even ready to access the Asteroid Belt very much at all, but anticipating future technological proficiency, (It is hoped), the compulsion to go to another star to establish an alternate home for the human race, lacks any kind of need.

Other practice objects for the human race could be Centaurs: https://www.fossilhunters.xyz/outer-sol … %20Neptune.
Quote:

The Centaur objects are a population of small bodies, similar to asteroids in size but to comets in composition, that revolve around the Sun in the outer solar system, mainly between the orbits of Jupiter and Neptune.
Centaur Objects - Outer Solar System - Fossil Hunters
www.fossilhunters.xyz/outer-solar-system/centaur-objects.html

https://www.britannica.com/science/Centaur-object

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur_( … stem_body)

The idea that the orbits of the Centaurs are unstable, presents danger and yet promise.

In the event that one represents a kill shot to a world humans inhabit, then the ability to manipulate them might be important.

If humans wanted to bombard a planet with something, I think the choice would be to use things much smaller.

But if it were possible to shoot a centaur by gravity assist, in the direction of a star, that might be an interesting notion.  It would take thousands of years to make the passage, but it might have a civilization of its own, and might access other rogues in its passage to, by, and beyond that star.

But good chances the star itself, may be of a lesser interest, except for science than the object itself, and the rogues it might "Infect" with humans.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-04 12:12:17)

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Done.

Calliban

Member

From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 2,619

Re: Potential Multi-World Future

Proton-proton fusion appears to take place too slowly to be useful in reactors.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton% … oton_chain

That means reactors must be huge (planet sized) to provide enough confinement time and power density will be poor.

I wonder if P-P fusion could be muon catalysed?  Apparently not.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest … -be-viable

'Note that p-p fusion to deuterium is a weak-interaction process, whose cross section is too low to observe in any terrestrial experiment. Muon-catalyzed fusion is d-d or d-t fusion, where the strong interaction permits a neutron to escape from the nucleus; the weak interaction is not involved (apart from the muon decay).'

Still there is enough energy in the deuterium to fuel a colony for billions of years.

Last edited by Calliban (2023-01-04 14:40:59)

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"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 5,823

Re: Potential Multi-World Future

Thats a pity about the p-p fusion.  I had hoped that if it were true, that Helion can manufacture Helium 3 using two Deuterium's, they could process protons also, but I need to learn more about it, it appears.

Gas giants appear to have equal parts Deuterium, and Helium 3, so finding and tapping those would be an increasable resource is Helion actually goes to production.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bDXXWQxK38  Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune would of course be easier than Jupiter.

Perhaps the interstellar void has some of the desired fuels as well.

You have made me realize that a Brown Dwarf is the least useful object, as its gravity field is so strong relative to gas giants, and they burn up their Deuterium.  Stars at least shine and burn regular Hydrogen.

So, it may be the Mini-Neptunes may be very valuable objects in space, particularly if they might have a rocky body accessible near them.

Thanks for your assistance to cause learning Calliban.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-04 20:43:26)

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Done.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 5,823

Re: Potential Multi-World Future

Since I ran into this, I decided to place it here.

I have straitened my head out in realizing that the Gas Giants have plenty of easy nuclear fuels Deuterium, and Helium 3, and yet before resorting to that there is plenty of Deuterium on Earth in in various moons, and then it may prove true that Helion can create Helium 3 using Deuterium.

Still, I wanted to place this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmC9KCz3xtg

I think that it is good to have awareness, almost always.

They talk about the CNO process, (carbon–nitrogen–oxygen).  I am not trying to educate you.    I am aware that you know much more.

But some members might benefit.

The CNO process sounds like it is a more active process than p-p, but we really don't need to burn actual Hydrogen as the Deuterium and Helium 3 method will do just fine, provided it actually works at a practical level.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-01-06 21:47:42)

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Done.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 6,250

Re: Potential Multi-World Future

NASA's Europa Clipper gets its wheels for traveling in deep space

https://phys.org/visualstories/2022-11- … s-deep.amp

NASA is continuing to build the Titan Dragonfly helicopter, with a focus on its rotors

https://phys.org/news/2023-01-nasa-tita … focus.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-02-09 13:35:25)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 6,250

Re: Potential Multi-World Future

NASA's Snake-Like Robot Could Look for Life on an Icy Saturn Moon

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne … 180982149/

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 6,250

Re: Potential Multi-World Future

We have a number of 'Elevator' threads, hopefully I will have time to post stuff again during the week

'Space Elevator for Space-Resource Mining'
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … rce_Mining
Yoji Ishikawa