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#1 2003-10-31 10:12:40

Hazer
Member
From: Texas/Oklahoma
Registered: 2003-10-26
Posts: 173

Re: Critical mass - Population

A question comes to mind.  What is the minimum number of colonists required to create a self-sustaining Martian colony? 
Many of us do not realize how interconnected we are. You will need enough doctors to keep the population healthy, enough engineers & machinists to keep the technology working, enough farmers (Biologists) to keep the population fed as well as geologists.  Did I mention you'll need programmers, as well as educators? A lawyer or two would be helpful.
Assuming little supplies from Earth, how many people does it take to support a high-tech colony?  This ain't homesteading folks.


In the interests of my species
I am a firm supporter of stepping out into this great universe both armed and dangerous.

Bootprints in red dust, or bust!

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#2 2003-10-31 16:37:25

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Critical mass - Population

I would think it would depend greatly on the level of technology of the colonists. It could conceivably be as few as one.

But there is also the question of what one defines as a colony. I would suggest that a viable breeding pool would be a minimum requirement, but again those numbers are debatable.

The only thing I can say with certainty is that I'd like to keep lawyers off the planet as long as possible. big_smile


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#3 2003-11-01 01:33:20

Hazer
Member
From: Texas/Oklahoma
Registered: 2003-10-26
Posts: 173

Re: Critical mass - Population

Whether or not we want it, I think there will eventually be lawyers-from-Mars.

"I would think it would depend greatly on the level of technology of the colonists. It could conceivably be as few as one.

But there is also the question of what one defines as a colony. I would suggest that a viable breeding pool would be a minimum requirement, but again those numbers are debatable."

The technology of the colonists must be at a high enough level for them to breed and survive in such as hostile environment.  Everyone on the board speaks of technologies that enable humans to live on Mars, yet I wonder how many Martian colonists it would take to maintain and create those technologies.  How highly trained would they have to be?  And could they pass on their vital scientific skills to any potential offspring?

As just a hypothetical number, I suggest 500 colonists would be required for the colony to be self-sustaining.


In the interests of my species
I am a firm supporter of stepping out into this great universe both armed and dangerous.

Bootprints in red dust, or bust!

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#4 2003-11-01 10:01:43

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Critical mass - Population

As just a hypothetical number, I suggest 500 colonists would be required for the colony to be self-sustaining.

It's as good a guess as any.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#5 2003-12-10 03:36:30

Hazer
Member
From: Texas/Oklahoma
Registered: 2003-10-26
Posts: 173

Re: Critical mass - Population

But from the ground up, how many people does it take to sustain a high-tech society?


In the interests of my species
I am a firm supporter of stepping out into this great universe both armed and dangerous.

Bootprints in red dust, or bust!

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#6 2003-12-10 04:09:35

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,669

Re: Critical mass - Population

From the ground up... That depends, again if you have input from earth or not (tele-education, for one)

Self-sustainment would be possible with a relatively small number of people, but it would be a stagnant society, without external input. No hi-tech society on Earth is totally isolated from the outside. Take North Korea, arguably the most isolated society on earth (i could be wrong) They have big problems, that could be 'easily' solved with some imports from abroad (physical and intellectual)

You could go far with a well equipped CAD-CAM manufacturing plant, and a well equipped hospital, and a good working greenhouse,  but the people operating it will still need some outside expert-knowledge, now and then...

Hmmm... All of a sudden i remember the Biosphere 2 project, some 8 people inside a closed-off biosphere, harvesting their own food, repairing the life support systems... they had *a lot* of expert-input from 'outside' and barely managed to survive their 2 years(!) missions... And they were ll highly trained, multi-disciplinary experts to begin with. (But they couldn't go 'outside' to harvest volatiles, ores etc, so maybe bad comparison...Biosphere 2

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#7 2003-12-10 17:23:53

jadeheart
Banned
From: barrow ak
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 134

Re: Critical mass - Population

I seem to remember reading somewhere that, in order to sustain a robust human gene pool that is resistant to the problems of inbreeding, you need like 250 individuals.  Although I just now saw a site that indicated it could be as low as 50 for short-term colony health... 500 for long-term inbreeding prevention.

This is assuming you all are talking about a breeding colony. :;):


You can stand on a mountaintop with your mouth open for a very long time before a roast duck flies into it.  -Chinese Proverb

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#8 2003-12-10 19:23:05

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Critical mass - Population

This is assuming you all are talking about a breeding colony. :;):

Is there any other kind?  cool


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#9 2003-12-11 03:38:20

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,669

Re: Critical mass - Population

Looks like 1 woman will be enough, in the future...

BBC

(Only half kidding...)

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#10 2003-12-19 21:53:46

A.J.Armitage
Member
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 239

Re: Critical mass - Population

I don't think you'd need enough of any one profession for all the needs of the colony to be met by full-time specialists. Division of labor naturally emerges with larger populations when there's enough surplus food to support non-farmers. But humans are perfectly capable of being servicably good at lots of different things. Why not train farmers in basic medicine?


Human: the other red meat.

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#11 2003-12-19 22:02:45

A.J.Armitage
Member
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 239

Re: Critical mass - Population

I don't think you'd need enough of any one profession for all the needs of the colony to be met by full-time specialists. Division of labor naturally emerges with larger populations when there's enough surplus food to support non-farmers. But humans are perfectly capable of being servicably good at lots of different things. Why not train farmers in basic medicine?


Human: the other red meat.

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