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#1 2020-09-18 12:44:28

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,284

Wastewater Treatment

This topic is offered because (a) a newsletter arrived with a reminder of its importance and (b) a search of the forum archives for a topic containing the two words in the title gave a null result.

Q&A: Getting the Grit Out for Wastewater Treatment
For wastewater treatment operations at municipal treatment plants and industrial sites, grit can be a major problem, gathering in digesters, clarifiers and aeration basins and requiring removal by staff. Operations rely on grit removal systems to keep this from happening, but not every technology is the same.

It isn't so much "wastewater" that is going to contain grit on Mars, although I suppose it might contain ** some **.

It is is the "original" water extracted from where-ever it may be on Mars that will contain grit, along with many other contaminants.

(th)

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#2 2020-09-18 17:47:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,305

Re: Wastewater Treatment

There are posts in topics that have details and even work that has been done on this very key element such as to not rely on earths supply train. That said Water processing and waste management systems supporting critical needs not only for lunar mission architectures but for Mars as well. The Iss has done quite a bit of work to improved technologies for recovery of water and other resources. It as well includes the safe long term stabilization and storage inside and outside the habitat are needed.

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducat … _Moon.html

https://sbir.nasa.gov/content/advanced- … processing

Efficient, direct treatment of wastewater and product water consisting of urine, brines, wash water, humidity condensate, and or product water derived from in situ planetary resources, to produce potable and hygiene water supplies. Technologies that contribute to closing the water loop will be given higher priority.

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/396719main_WLM … _Guide.pdf

http://marsforthemany.com/project/livin … r-on-mars/

Making Water on Mars from CO 2 In The Case for Mars, Zubrin laid out a simple chemical process for producing methane from the Martian atmosphere. His intent was to show that by bringing along additional hydrogen on the trip from Earth, it would be a simple, and frankly, quite elegant, way of producing fuel for the trip back to Earth.

The real trick is to know when to Reject, Reuse, or Recycle The amount of waste generated on long-duration space missions away from Earth orbit creates the daunting challenge of how to manage the waste through reuse, rejection, or recycle.

https://waldenlabs.com/extreme-do-it-yo … ent-plant/

http://marsjournal.org/contents/2006/00 … on2004.pdf

RobertDyck could tell you more about such work that he was part of and You will find documented work here
http://www.marshome.org/documents.php

The Mars Homestead: a Mars Base Constructed from Local Materials

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#3 2020-09-18 18:27:29

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Wastewater Treatment

I would differentiate between waste water from kitchen/bathroom  use and waste water from either EVA wash downs or industrial processes.  The former would be pretty grit free and could probably take place within automated water recycling facilities within residential habs. The other water recycling facilities would require industrial type treatment facilities, but more automated than on Earth.

I think technology on Mars will be AFWHALR - Automation First With Humans As Last Resort. So yes, in the final analysis, humans might have to get in there and poke around with a stick.


tahanson43206 wrote:

This topic is offered because (a) a newsletter arrived with a reminder of its importance and (b) a search of the forum archives for a topic containing the two words in the title gave a null result.

Q&A: Getting the Grit Out for Wastewater Treatment
For wastewater treatment operations at municipal treatment plants and industrial sites, grit can be a major problem, gathering in digesters, clarifiers and aeration basins and requiring removal by staff. Operations rely on grit removal systems to keep this from happening, but not every technology is the same.

It isn't so much "wastewater" that is going to contain grit on Mars, although I suppose it might contain ** some **.

It is is the "original" water extracted from where-ever it may be on Mars that will contain grit, along with many other contaminants.

(th)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#4 2020-09-18 19:17:38

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,284

Re: Wastewater Treatment

For Louis and SpaceNut ... thanks for giving this new topic a vigorous push at the start!

My hope for this topic that it will become a repository of specific advice and recommendations for a Mars Mission planner to study, to help with selection if materials and equipment to pack for the trip to Mars.

The links provided by SpaceNut seem (to me at least) like a great place to start.  However, I am looking for more than links to end up in this topic.  I would like for future Mars mission planners to be able to read this topic from the top, and find specific advice and guidance, supplemented by links for authentication.

Louis, your point about wash downs as explorers return to the habitat is a good one.  I think the need for that is even greater on the Moon, where the fine regolith is sharp because there is no weather to grind down the tips of shards of rock.  That said, the need for a wash down at the entrance to a Mars habitat is a possibility.  Perhaps there might be an alternative using clean air to blow dust away from the arriving worker, or perhaps a vacuum system would be a better solution.

In any case, if water is used, then it would clearly become contaminated with whatever the worker brought in from outside.

(th)

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#5 2022-05-09 02:11:45

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,289

Re: Wastewater Treatment

Mars astronauts will create fuel by having a shower

https://phys.org/news/2022-04-mars-astr … hower.html

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#6 2022-05-09 06:42:56

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,284

Re: Wastewater Treatment

For Mars_B4_Moon re #6

Thank you for your substantial contribution to this topic!

For kbd512 ... following up on our Zoom session last night ...

This company might become a design partner for a solar powered plant to make "fossil" fuel ...

Headquartered in northeastern Spain, Tekniker is a non-profit research, development, and innovation (R&D&I) organization that specializes in advanced manufacturing and information and communications technology (ICT). This photoelectrochemical system relies on high-efficiency catalytic materials to produce hydrocarbons like methane, carbon monoxide, or alcohols from atmospheric CO2 and wastewater.

You are in a position to consider a variety of options for focus of your energy in the future...

One option is to create a company to make "fossil" fuel using solar power that has a world-class plant in Texas.

You would need to develop the leadership skills necessary to develop trust so that ** very ** capable people are willing to follow your suggestions.

I got the impression that making diesel from CO2 and water (sea water preferably) might be the activity for which there would be the most demand.  You and your team would be in competition with traditional from-the-ground providers, but the "Force" is with you, because from-the-ground hydrocarbons are going away.

(th)

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#7 2022-05-09 18:42:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,305

Re: Wastewater Treatment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel

Synthetic diesel can be produced from any carbonaceous material, including biomass, biogas, natural gas, coal and many others.

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#8 2022-08-26 05:26:01

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,289

Re: Wastewater Treatment

Sewage sludge contaminated with toxic forever chemicals spread on thousands of acres of Chicago-area farmland
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/env … story.html

Recycling for Moon, Mars and Beyond
https://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducat … _Moon.html
Device used to recycle waste in a reduced-gravity environment

Polio virus detected in New York City wastewater
https://www.digitaljournal.com/world/po … er/article

Lunar, Martian Greenhouses Designed to Mimic Those on Earth
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/lunar-mart … e-on-earth

Monkeypox Added to Wastewater Screening Panel
https://www.technologynetworks.com/immu … nel-364603
water system architectures for moon and mars bases

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20160001260

Water systems for human bases on the moon and Mars will recycle multiple sources of wastewater. Systems for both the moon and Mars will also store water to support and backup the recycling system. Most water system requirements, such as number of crew, quantity and quality of water supply, presence of gravity, and surface mission duration of 6 or 18 months, will be similar for the moon and Mars. If the water system fails, a crew on the moon can quickly receive spare parts and supplies or return to Earth, but a crew on Mars cannot.

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#9 2022-09-12 14:21:40

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,289

Re: Wastewater Treatment

Milton eyes wastewater dryers to turn waste into sellable fertilizer

https://www.miltonindependent.com/news/ … 78295.html

Australian scientists to develop technology to harvest resources from wastewater

https://english.news.cn/asiapacific/202 … 817/c.html


Some places have a suction toilet but What of a flowing litter box toilet for humans or animal?

some pets on Mars might stink

This $19 Hassle-Free Tool That Eliminates Litter Box Odor Has Been Dubbed a ‘Game-Changer’ For Cat Owners
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/19-hass … 07187.html

There are resources to be used as fertilizer for animal feed

Making fuel from pee waste, animal or human poop

Stanford engineers create a catalyst that can turn carbon dioxide into gasoline 1,000 times more efficiently
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/09/tu … ficiently/
Captured CO2 can be turned into carbon-neutral fuels, but technological advances are needed. In new research, a new catalyst increased the production of long-chain hydrocarbons in chemical reactions by some 1,000 times over existing methods.

“We can create gasoline, basically,” said Cargnello, who is an assistant professor of chemical engineering. “To capture as much carbon as possible, you want the longest chain hydrocarbons. Chains with eight to 12 carbon atoms would be the ideal.”

On Mars perhaps people will pollute with more Global Warming gasses because Terra-forming people have a desire to warm Mars.

Methane emission from waste water treatment plants can earn carbon revenue

https://greencleanguide.com/methane-emi … n-revenue/

Methane (CH4) is emitted from both anthropogenic and natural sources.  Fossil fuel production, rice cultivation, biomass burning, and waste management are some of the activities that release methane.  In the case of organic waste, it is produced from microbial decomposition of organic matter in the absence of oxygen (Anaerobic decomposition).
Wastewater from domestic (municipal sewage) and industrial sources are treated in municipal sewage treatment facilities and private effluent treatment plants (ETPs). If the wastewater contains loads of organic constituents (with high Chemical Oxygen Demand- COD) then it is treated anaerobically. These treatment processes produce methane which is one of the potent Green House Gas. Methane emissions can be avoided, however, by treating the wastewater and the associated sludge under aerobic conditions or by capturing methane released under anaerobic conditions. Projects with technology that can capture methane from the wastewater and utilize it for power generation or just burn it in open flare can earn carbon credits for the avoidance of releasing it into the atmosphere.

Wastewater: The Best Hidden Energy Source You’ve Never Heard Of

https://www.wri.org/insights/wastewater … ever-heard

It’s no secret that the world’s need for energy is increasing—but what many don't realize is that a promising potential energy source is being flushed down our toilets every day. Increasingly, this wastewater—as well as other organic waste from sources like gardens and kitchens—is being used to heat homes, provide electricity, and even power cars.

Sewage treatment systems begin treating wastewater by collecting the solid sludge. In a sludge-to-energy system, this sludge then undergoes a pretreatment process called thermal hydrolysis to maximize the amount of methane it can produce. Next, the treated waste enters an anaerobic digester, which finishes breaking it down. The resulting product is a methane-rich gas, or biogas, that can be used for on-site energy needs, or processed further and used in place of natural gas. In addition, the solid remnants of the waste create a nutrient-rich “digestate” that can be added to soil to boost plant growth.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-12 15:29:57)

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#10 2022-09-12 17:22:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,305

Re: Wastewater Treatment

One of the issues for wastewater is the separation of liquid from solids and then a further reduction of that water content from it so that you get most of the water back to start a process of filtration and aeration to aid in changing it back to usable water with the least amount of energy.
At which time you can place bacterium into it and add heat to get it to break down not only for the water but for the solids as well.

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#11 2022-09-12 17:30:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,305

Re: Wastewater Treatment

One of the issues for wastewater is the separation of liquid from solids and then a further reduction of that water content from it so that you get most of the water back to start a process of filtration and aeration to aid in changing it back to usable water with the least amount of energy.
At which time you can place bacterium into it and add heat to get it to break down not only for the water but for the solids as well.

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