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#1 2020-01-03 22:04:42

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Red Starliner

This is a concept mission making use of the starliner for bring a payloads to the surface of mars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner

The payloads would match the 1,000 kg type for the same as the Red dragong would have performed.
Capable of being launched on the Falcon Heavy to mars would not be an issue as its already capable of doing.

Things that the ship has performed already is a landing on Earth with airbags but testing for sharp rocks of mars would they hold up?
The use of Parachutes to land with have happened but for mars might need band gap to work for mars?
The pad abort retro rockets would need calculations to see if they could perform the retro propulsion up to the air bag deployment?

Still need to pull up documents that give the parametrics for the capsule to add to the topic.

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#2 2020-01-03 22:26:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Red Starliner

Links from wiki apply of course for all to check out and have started to do so.

My closing suggestions for the Red Dragon capsule alterations apply here as well since the cargo does not need any of those items.

I got thinking about the inside of the dragon and the internal pressure vessel could be lessened or removed in its entirety as we do not need it for anything thats going to mars for cargo. This would up the mass for payload to mars. This would also include the door as well as its not needed either.

https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner- … hotos.html

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#3 2020-01-04 11:55:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Red Starliner

https://www.boeing.com/space/starliner/

I see from images of the escape pod firing that the unit which performs this is the truck portion of the craft and its normally stays until we make the return to earth.

SpaceX-Crew-Dragon-development-cost-and-Boeing-Starliner-Development-cost-1024x576.jpg

One would need to rearrange the ships components to make it work it would seem.

So this is why some say to do a clean sheet approach rather than trying to use what was not design for the purpose that you intend.

The parts and pieces of both the starliner and of the dragon when combined we do end up with a larger mass to mars surface which is the goal.

https://everydayastronaut.com/crew-dragon-vs-starliner/

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#4 2020-01-04 21:39:11

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Red Starliner

https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/11/04/b … pad-abort/

The capsule did not fly with any astronauts Monday when it launched off a pad at White Sands on a fast-paced test flight, which lasted around 78 seconds from liftoff through landing. Fuel used was a high-pressure mix of liquid hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide propellants rushed into four launch abort engines, or LAEs. The chemical propellants automatically combusted when mixed together, generating 40,000 pounds of thrust from each of the Aerojet Rocketdyne-made engines. The engines, coupled with thrust from 12 smaller orbital maneuvering and attitude control rockets, or OMACs, pushed the Starliner vehicle off the ground with nearly 180,000 pounds of thrust.

abort engines were to fire for 5.1 seconds, propelling the Starliner from zero to some 650 mph.

Then thrusters pulsed to flip the spacecraft around and fly tail first on an arc that was expected to take the vehicle to a maximum altitude of approximately 4,426 feet (1,349 meters) above ground level around 18.6 seconds after takeoff. The thrusters stopped firing 17 seconds after takeoff, and a series of pilot, drogue and main parachutes began deploying at about T+plus 20 seconds. The craft jettisoned its service module at T+plus 34 seconds to fall to the ground. The crew module then released its base heat shield, then inflated airbags to cushion the capsule’s landing at White Sands.

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#5 2020-01-04 22:04:02

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Red Starliner

28 reaction control system engines, which provide 85 pounds of thrust each to enable on-orbit maneuvering and International Space Station reboost. Twenty orbital maneuvering and attitude control engines, providing 1,500 pounds of thrust each, are used for abort, maneuvering and stage separation.

ARDÉ provides 4 fuel, 4 oxidizer and 2 pressurant service module tanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur_(rocket_stage)

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#6 2020-01-10 19:50:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Red Starliner

Working numbers is part of the issue for going to mars but getting information of past missions failure and success to mars.

A Novel Entry, Descent and Landing Architecture for Mars

The starliner in its current configuration can not land on mars as the service module is designed to seperate from the capsule which leaves the crew in spacesuits for getting to the next location once they have landed.
That makes for a very critical landing accomodation which we are unsure that man can do, let alone survive until you could walk to it as there is no rescue crew if you are the first.

There is information still be be learned but its got its limits for use.

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#7 2020-01-10 20:44:03

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,778

Re: Red Starliner

For SpaceNut re #6

The paper cited at the link "A Novel..." contains references as recent as 2018.

It reviews landers from history, and proposes an alternative to shock absorbing methods tried in the past. 

I'll be interested in any comments which other forum members may have about the proposal.

A great deal of effort appears to have been invested in this paper.

(th)

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