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#1 2019-11-09 21:01:32

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 782

97% CO2 atmosphere

Can a parachute open if there is no atmosphere on Mars?? The parachute would be useless. This is a good question, I think it is another show of NASA to laugh at us.

True, l went through a PDF of Viking, but mars supposedly has a 97% CO2 atmosphere, and it is supposedly thin, so eventhough a supposed near vacuum atmosphere, would be pushing three parachutes, it is a hard one to prove, especially to the faithful. And since Viking had mini rockets for the last 3000 feet, not something that is worth bringing up.


louis wrote:

There's a very, very thin atmosphere on Mars. Everyone knows that! What are you claiming? Just be specific. Are you claiming there is no atmosphere, some atmosphere, an Earth-like atmosphere or something else.

jorgear wrote:
Tmcom wrote:

Agreed, the Viking probes used several parachutes, to land in the 70's, which should require massive parachutes if the atmosphere is so thin?

I might do a comparison to see just how much oxygen and supposedly high levels of CO2, is needed for a landing of such probes.

Can a parachute open if there is no atmosphere on Mars?? The parachute would be useless. This is a good question, I think it is another show of NASA to laugh at us.

Can't have tree's on a near vacuum atmosphere or animals, or rain, so l am going with Earth like atmosphere, although Mars probably has less gravity than earth, and slightly less oxygen.

Strange being on Mars?

Nice, but not a strange being jorgear, it is another letterbox or totempole to signifying a house or business, (you can see the framework supporting this, just).

Or more good evidence to support current habitation, and that the rover quite ironically is driving on a dirt road.

smile

Last edited by Tmcom (2019-11-09 21:04:02)

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#2 2019-11-10 09:33:35

jorgear
Member
Registered: 2019-07-22
Posts: 185

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

If the climate change is true and we are fighting against more CO2 in the atmosphere, if CO2 contributes to the global warming... how is it possible that almost all the atmosphere of Mars is composed by CO2 and it does not have extreme temperatures??? Mars should be a very hot planet!! However this is not certain. Is the climate change a lie and more CO2 does not contribute to more hot temperatures?? or maybe the atmosphere of Mars does not contain too much CO2 such as NASA tells us????

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#3 2019-11-10 15:48:05

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 531

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

jorgear wrote:

If the climate change is true and we are fighting against more CO2 in the atmosphere, if CO2 contributes to the global warming... how is it possible that almost all the atmosphere of Mars is composed by CO2 and it does not have extreme temperatures??? Mars should be a very hot planet!! However this is not certain. Is the climate change a lie and more CO2 does not contribute to more hot temperatures?? or maybe the atmosphere of Mars does not contain too much CO2 such as NASA tells us????

The atmosphere is thin, contains very little water vapour and the planet is 50% further from the sun than Earth.  Without oceans, the surface of the planet has very little thermal inertia, causing temperatures to drop to very low levels at night.  Whilst carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, it is not the only heat trapping mechanism at work in Earth's atmosphere.  And being 50% further from the sun, it would take huge amounts of greenhouse gases, shutting off the entire infrared spectrum, to make Mars as warm as Earth.


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#4 2019-11-10 20:45:14

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 782

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

Calliban wrote:
jorgear wrote:

????

The atmosphere is thin, contains very little water vapour and the planet is 50% further from the sun than Earth.  Without oceans, the surface of the planet has very little thermal inertia, causing temperatures to drop to very low levels at night.  Whilst carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, it is not the only heat trapping mechanism at work in Earth's atmosphere.  And being 50% further from the sun, it would take huge amounts of greenhouse gases, shutting off the entire infrared spectrum, to make Mars as warm as Earth.

Groan, l would advise you to go to post #1, (mars stealth thread) and then comment. Can't have water drops on the rover, or a blue sky or...... Mars 97% CO2 is rubbish, as are a lot of other things, the truth is, the desert areas of Mars can drop down to -2 or maybe -4 at night, as the plant life could not exist with -200. And the atmosphere, (which is thicker than ours, going by Hubble images) is closer to 18% oxygen, with whatever, probably 15 - 17%, (Earth has 18%), and a lighter gravity. And rain!


jorgear wrote:

If the climate change is true and we are fighting against more CO2 in the atmosphere, if CO2 contributes to the global warming... how is it possible that almost all the atmosphere of Mars is composed by CO2 and it does not have extreme temperatures??? Mars should be a very hot planet!! However this is not certain. Is the climate change a lie and more CO2 does not contribute to more hot temperatures?? or maybe the atmosphere of Mars does not contain too much CO2 such as NASA tells us????

Last edited by Tmcom (2019-11-11 20:16:25)

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#5 2019-11-10 21:18:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,690

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

I guess the question is whether the air pressure sensors did read the content correctly with the cold that we see on mars or was it damaged in some way while going through the landing phase of the mission.
Are there more sensing on mars that show something diffent than what we are being told is true?
The droplet seen on mars polar lander are well known for evaporation as it appears out of what seemed like no where.
Not sure of the others for droplets...
Noted how low the solar really is and that's just the fan out effect and distance that lowers the value.

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#6 2019-11-11 14:08:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,690

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

jorgear wrote:

Somebody has deleted my message about the CO2 in the Martian atmosphere.

The density of the Martian atmosphere is 100 times less that that of the Earth. So... how can a parachute open with a weak atmosphere? it is almost impossible that a parachute opens with a weak atmosphere. The spacecraft would fall over Mars' surface suffering damages.

I repeat: If CO2 really causes climate change on Earth ... what about the 97 percent of CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars? Shouldn't it be a planet burning with heat? Is it real that CO2 causes global warming? is a lie? However, Mars has very cold temperatures, at least in the night. Who understands this? who gives a thoughtful response?

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#7 2019-11-11 14:11:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,690

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

I believe there is a series of smaller ones that open to pull the larger unit out so that it can work.
Where the parachutes are band gap style the pressure is collected over time and released in the gap area to allow for it to inflate.

We can carry on about the mars inconsistancy in that topic which is the question of if the gas is a warmer than why is mars so cold.

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#8 2019-11-11 20:15:33

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 782

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

SpaceNut wrote:

I guess the question is whether the air pressure sensors did read the content correctly with the cold that we see on mars or was it damaged in some way while going through the landing phase of the mission.
Are there more sensing on mars that show something diffent than what we are being told is true?
The droplet seen on mars polar lander are well known for evaporation as it appears out of what seemed like no where.
Not sure of the others for droplets...
Noted how low the solar really is and that's just the fan out effect and distance that lowers the value.

Arrm, no, NASA had a lot of data about temperature ranges, and just moved the decimal place so -2, (typical desert night temp on earth) was -200.

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#9 2019-11-11 20:35:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,690

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

That is what is inconsistent with Nasa; is how stuff works and then by magic its got errors that can not be explained away....

Ran accross the magnetic field images and it suggests that mars is more active than what Nasa wants to admit to.
Its sad how INSIGHT has so nearly failed to execute its mission.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 … avity-map/

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#10 2019-11-12 06:27:51

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,868

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

It would help if you gave a link...are you talking about average temperature? I've never seen a figure as high as -2 (celsius???) for Mars at night.


Tmcom wrote:
SpaceNut wrote:

I guess the question is whether the air pressure sensors did read the content correctly with the cold that we see on mars or was it damaged in some way while going through the landing phase of the mission.
Are there more sensing on mars that show something diffent than what we are being told is true?
The droplet seen on mars polar lander are well known for evaporation as it appears out of what seemed like no where.
Not sure of the others for droplets...
Noted how low the solar really is and that's just the fan out effect and distance that lowers the value.

Arrm, no, NASA had a lot of data about temperature ranges, and just moved the decimal place so -2, (typical desert night temp on earth) was -200.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#11 2019-11-13 20:53:15

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 782

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

louis wrote:

It would help if you gave a link...are you talking about average temperature? I've never seen a figure as high as -2 (celsius???) for Mars at night.


Tmcom wrote:
SpaceNut wrote:

I guess the question is whether the air pressure sensors did read the content correctly with the cold that we see on mars or was it damaged in some way while going through the landing phase of the mission.
Are there more sensing on mars that show something diffent than what we are being told is true?
The droplet seen on mars polar lander are well known for evaporation as it appears out of what seemed like no where.
Not sure of the others for droplets...
Noted how low the solar really is and that's just the fan out effect and distance that lowers the value.

Arrm, no, NASA had a lot of data about temperature ranges, and just moved the decimal place so -2, (typical desert night temp on earth) was -200.

Moved as in faked!

Siberia, Russia was the coldest day ever recorded, l think in the 80's, and was minus 80 below at night during a fierce blizzard. So minus 200 a few times a week all year, would kill anything organic, including algea, (only some Death Valley type fungus may cling onto life).

If you don't believe in the plant life idea from me, then go to Googleearth/Mars and look around til you find some.

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#12 2019-11-13 22:33:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,690

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

Nasa is admitting to not only a seasonal methane fluctuation but an Oxygen level change as well indicative of life....

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#13 2019-11-14 05:03:17

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,868

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

True, but the amount of methane is tiny.  I can't recall the figure now but I think it was in the hundred of tons...It certainly wasn't a major signal of life. I don't know about oxygen levels.

SpaceNut wrote:

Nasa is admitting to not only a seasonal methane fluctuation but an Oxygen level change as well indicative of life....


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#14 2019-11-14 05:15:36

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,868

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

I think you'd have to provide some links to convince me NASA is deliberately faking Mars temperatures. Does it conspire with the ESA to do so? Because ESA satellites also provide temperature data.

The point about extremophiles on Mars would be that they don't just "accept" the prevailing conditions on Mars. Through evolution on Mars, organisms might gain the ability to withstand temperatures as low as -200 celsius. They might do so, for instance by hiding in rock or ice niches and generating heat during the night or winter. Some plants on Earth generate heat at night. I'd call this the igloo principle -Inuits in an ice house protect themselves from very cold temperatures by generating heat within a small enclosed space.  One could imagine sub surface ice colonies that can generate energy from solar radiation and use that to generate enough heat to keep them alive but not melt the ice. Then perhaps in summer they live the high life during the day when temperatures are often above freezing.

Tmcom wrote:
louis wrote:

It would help if you gave a link...are you talking about average temperature? I've never seen a figure as high as -2 (celsius???) for Mars at night.


Tmcom wrote:

Arrm, no, NASA had a lot of data about temperature ranges, and just moved the decimal place so -2, (typical desert night temp on earth) was -200.

Moved as in faked!

Siberia, Russia was the coldest day ever recorded, l think in the 80's, and was minus 80 below at night during a fierce blizzard. So minus 200 a few times a week all year, would kill anything organic, including algea, (only some Death Valley type fungus may cling onto life).

If you don't believe in the plant life idea from me, then go to Googleearth/Mars and look around til you find some.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#15 2019-11-14 17:43:29

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,690

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

If the images are of frost from co2 its going to be -200c but if its water frosts then a -2c is more like reasonable for that event.
So which was what we have seen?

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#16 2019-12-05 04:31:55

qraal
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2008-01-02
Posts: 63

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

SpaceNut wrote:

If the images are of frost from co2 its going to be -200c but if its water frosts then a -2c is more like reasonable for that event.
So which was what we have seen?

Water ice frost in the old Viking pictures. Or is there more recent pictures you guys are discussing.

TmCom seems to be smoking something pretty potent. Oxygen and plant life? What the??

The thinness of the Martian atmosphere has been known since 1964 - even before the flyby of Mariner 4. Astronomers measured it from Earth. Until that time most couldn't accept the idea the atmosphere was almost all CO2 - most assumed the CO2 was a minor component and there was a lot of N2. But once they measured the atmosphere with just about every probe since 1965, the thin atmosphere has been confirmed every time, by every probe. To imagine anything else is just *nuts*.

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#17 2019-12-05 07:04:26

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,868

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

I agree. There's simply no way such a "conspiracy" could work.

qraal wrote:
SpaceNut wrote:

If the images are of frost from co2 its going to be -200c but if its water frosts then a -2c is more like reasonable for that event.
So which was what we have seen?

Water ice frost in the old Viking pictures. Or is there more recent pictures you guys are discussing.

TmCom seems to be smoking something pretty potent. Oxygen and plant life? What the??

The thinness of the Martian atmosphere has been known since 1964 - even before the flyby of Mariner 4. Astronomers measured it from Earth. Until that time most couldn't accept the idea the atmosphere was almost all CO2 - most assumed the CO2 was a minor component and there was a lot of N2. But once they measured the atmosphere with just about every probe since 1965, the thin atmosphere has been confirmed every time, by every probe. To imagine anything else is just *nuts*.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#18 2020-01-16 19:39:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,690

Re: 97% CO2 atmosphere

Impressive cloud formations over Mars' northern polar ice cap

The Red Planet's polar axis is inclined at around 25 degrees, roughly the same as Earth's tilt. As such, Mars has the equivalent of our polar nights, without any sunlight in winter, and an Arctic or Antarctic summer, when the Sun does not set for months. Temperatures during the night and day vary just as dramatically on Mars, which affects the ice cover.

The appearance of Mars' north polar ice cap changes constantly over the course of a year. During the summer half, we see a permanent ice cap, part of which can be seen in this image. It essentially consists of water ice and has a diameter of approximately 1100 kilometres. It is estimated to have a volume of 1.6 million cubic kilometres, which equates to slightly over half the Greenland ice sheet, and is over two kilometres thick in places.

During the winter half of the year, temperatures at the Martian north pole fall to below minus 125 degrees Celsius, and even in the temperate latitudes of the hemisphere in which it is winter, temperatures can drop to minus 40 degree Celsius or even lower during the day. At these low temperatures, a considerable proportion of the carbon dioxide from the thin Martian atmosphere condenses into ice ('dry ice') close to the poles and precipitates onto the surface.

This enlarges the ice cap, forming what is known as the seasonal ice cap, consisting of a one- to two-metre-thick layer of carbon dioxide ice. This extends to 70 degrees north latitude. As a result, at this time of year the polar cap is often enshrouded in thick carbon dioxide clouds, making it difficult to observe from orbit. When spring sets in, the season layer of carbon dioxide ice quickly sublimates once again, turning directly into gas

The dark fissures between the gleaming white deposits of water ice are part of an impressive system of valleys that spiral outwards from the centre of the polar region in a counterclockwise direction. In places, these are up to two kilometres deep, making them similar in scale to the Grand Canyon, and cut through the layered deposits of the polar cap, which consists of a mixture of ice and dust.

https://www.dlr.de/content/en/missions/marsexpress.html

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