Asteroid/off-Earth mining

louis · 2019-10-26 06:10:28

Interesting video on asteroid and other off-Earth mining from Bloomberg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGosZWBTF7A

I remain sceptical that we are on the verge of a space mining bonanza but there are some interesting lines of inquiry.

SpaceNut · 2019-10-26 08:47:20

Sure mining is for profit bonanza but only if those that want the ore are willing to pay.

Here are the other topics which we already had
Asteroid Mining - profit from space

This one also includes its other uses along with mining it.
Colonizing / terraforming small asteroids

SpaceNut · 2019-10-26 09:30:56

What are the costs that make mining a profitable business or not is a topic to focus on.

Launch, power, equipment, easy of operation for ore percentage processing yeild, site return for selling of materials export regulation, plus more are just some of the discussing options that would cause the business to fold...

tahanson43206 · 2019-10-29 19:06:55

For Louis .... a recent Space Show featured discussion of a free flying habitat that would be used for asteroid mining.

It's a stretch to put this post in your topic, but I'm hoping there is enough overlap so you will be willing to accept it.

Space Show:
https://thespaceshow.com/show/28-oct-20 … ny-longman

Anthony Longman graduated from Cambridge University and was licensed as an architect in the U.K. before relocating to Los Angeles where he worked initially in hands on house remodeling. This developed into a residential design practice covering 25 years, as well as collaborations in the film industry, high end litigation graphics and landscape design. In 2008 he became interested in space habitat design, focused on including landscape as a primary design driver. In 2013 he began a 6 year collaboration with Dr. Robert Skelton, the originator of the mathematics for engineering tensegrity structures, whose matchless efficiency makes them ideal for space applications. That year they were awarded a NIAC Phase I research grant to explore adding iterative structural expansion capability to landscaped rotating shielded space habitats. In 2016 an enlarged team including Dr. Joel Sercel of TransAstra Corporation was awarded a 2 Year NIAC Phase II grant to continue this research. Work continued for 12 months beyond the grant funded period, and the results will be published shortly in a report to NASA.

(th)

https://www.skyframeresearch.com/

EXPAT - Expandable Shielded Rotating Space Habitat
Growth from initial 8.5m pressure hull radius to 224m radius in 12 radial steps and 4 axial steps. 90 acres of managed woodland over 90 acres of urban outdoor mall space over 5 floors of apartments and commercial space. The mature habitat will feed and support a population of 8,000. Diurnal cycle shared between crop production in the side wall floors and habitable space in the interior. Light switching reflectors send sunlight up the light shafts to the central reflector enclosing the zero-g industrial workshop. (This work is the end product of NASA funded research under the NIAC program, in collaboration with Dr Robert Skelton and Texas A&M University.)

Calliban · 2019-11-04 15:58:45

Peak stainless steel?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 … 019-0056-9

“This study shows that there is a significant risk that stainless steel production will reach its maximum capacity around 2055 because of declining nickel production, though recycling, and use of other alloys on a very small scale can compensate somewhat. The model in this study assumes business as usual for metal production and fossil fuel supplies (though the authors note that energy limitations are likely in the future, which will limit mining). If oil begins to decline within 10 years, as many think, shortages of stainless steel and everything else will happen before 2055.”

Nickel is naturally present in meteoritic iron at concentrations of about 10%. It can be separated using carbonyl chemistry. It is of more than academic importance that asteroid mining is perfected relatively soon. It could make the difference between a prosperous future and a poor one.

Last edited by Calliban (2019-11-04 16:00:19)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-04 17:04:49

Nickle is used for electronics for the purpose of oxidation and conduction as well as in batteries.

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-12 18:52:50

For Louis re topic .... here is a paper from 1979 that appears to use a variation on Calliban's idea of spinning at habitat on an axis that runs through an asteroid.

Please note that the paper includes images that show the proposed propulsion system (for asteroid material to be sent to Earth) running on either (both) end of the axis of the asteroid.

http://www.star-tech-inc.com/papers/ast … eroids.pdf

ASTEROID RETRIEVAL BY ROTARY ROCKET* Jerome Pearson** U. S. Air Force Flight Dynamics Laboratory Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio 45433

Rather than expending 80% of the asteroid mass to bring back the remaining 20%, it may be more advantageous to launch larger masses with the proper velocity to return directly to the earthmoon system. In this case we might launch only 20% of the mass of the asteroid, but it would all be retrieved for use. This technique would have the advantage of producing the first payload in a matter of a year instead of 4 to 5 years.

I had the opportunity to attend presentations by Mr. Pearson on several occasions. At the time he was working on tethers, about which he has published several papers.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-12 20:37:47

How the OST is interpreted is the issue for how a caim can be had, Of course you can claim what is in your hands but its harder to claim what is under your feet...

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-12 21:08:57

for SpaceNut re #8

Thank you for boosting the topic!

For those who have not yet had time to review the paper by Mr. Pearson and associates, the suggestion is to disassemble the asteroid and send the pieces back to the Earth/Moon system. My question for you is: Does the OST offer any guidance for this procedure?

My assumption is that the pieces of the asteroid flung toward the Earth-Moon system would be retrieved by associates of the miners, and that "ownership" of those pieces would be claimable (and claimed) by those associates.

A precedent already exists ... in fact, at least two precedents already exist ...

The Americans brought back material they collected on the Moon, and (for all intents and purposes) the Americans claimed ownership of those objects.

The Japanese brought back material from an asteroid, and I would be surprised if they do not claim ownership.

A third example (which I am less sure about) would be an American probe which (I think) brought back sampled material.

In any case, it seems to me that since precedent often sets the conditions for conventions which are adopted by society, the materials flung from an asteroid and collected in the Earth-Moon system by associates of the miners are likely to be recognized as "owned" by those taking possession.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-13 17:01:36

But while they did bring them home they are not for sale, are given as gifts and used for science. AS a government entity was used to bring the mission to full term of funding and selection.
If its gets no cash from the government, personnel in crew then maybe you can make the claim to be private and not sponsored in any form such that you can own what you take and sell it as you wish so long as the citizenship question is ignored for the nation that you come from. Maybe dual citizenship would cause a fight amoungst them to posess what you bring back and maybe not..

tahanson43206 · 2019-12-02 19:44:14

The article at the link below reports on research that (apparently) shows increased lifetime for lithium batteries that use cobalt.

It also reports that cobalt is in short supply, and its procurement on Earth may be problematic.

For Calliban ...

I am hoping your study of asteroids (near Earth or otherwise) will help you to identify any which might contain sufficient quantities of cobalt to justify a venture to corral it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-million- … 10953.html

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-12-02 20:20:56

Just one more reason to mining for export elsewhere makes sense as man reaches for the stars....

tahanson43206 · 2020-12-21 19:13:33

For SpaceNut .... there are two topics that contain "asteroid" and "mining" in the topic title ...

This one by Louis seems a better fit for this post:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/neve … 19736.html

David Fickling
Mon, December 21, 2020 6:00 PM ET
(Bloomberg Opinion) -- Where would science fiction be without space mining?
<snip>
That might sound a disappointing prospect to those looking for excuses for humanity to colonize space — but really it should be seen as a tribute to our ingenuity. Humanity’s failure to exploit extraterrestrial ore reserves isn’t a sign that we lack imagination. If anything, it’s a sign of the adaptive genius that put us in orbit in the first place.
This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.
David Fickling is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist covering commodities, as well as industrial and consumer companies. He has been a reporter for Bloomberg News, Dow Jones, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times and the Guardian.

The article at the link above seems to me to show a decent understanding of the issues facing asteroid miners.

The skeptical tone of the article seems justified (to me at least) if one's perspective is limited to trying to serve the Earth.

However, readers of the NewMars forum may be able to see a larger picture than that.

Certainly some individual members of the forum have demonstrated an understanding of the larger picture through the posts that I have read, and I've read only a fraction of the posts on this site.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-12-21 19:20:30

Yah post 2 of this topic indicated them.....
and yet at the time not a care was taken to go find out if there were any to place a post into at that time....

tahanson43206 · 2021-10-03 12:18:41

For SpaceNut .... the article reported below is about mining on Earth, but I'm attempting to show a connection to Mars ...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/siberia-copp … 30059.html

Andrea PALASCIANO
Sun, October 3, 2021, 12:02 AM
In 1949, a Soviet expedition in Siberia was looking for uranium to supply the national nuclear arsenal when it stumbled on a vast deposit of copper.
More than 70 years later, a mining complex in Russia's Far East between Lake Baikal and the Pacific Ocean is finally due to launch operations next year.
With copper key to the world's energy transition away from carbon, the hope is it will be a boon for Russia and beyond.

In reading the article at the link above, I am doing so with Mars conditions in mind.

In overcoming the challenges of the copper mine site, modern Russians are demonstrating techniques that would probably work on Mars, if an underground concentration of valuable material is discovered.

In comparison, Mars might well seem like Miami Beach to the crews doing this work.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-15 09:02:02

Mining the Moon falls into a gray area of international law. But talks are underway to avoid conflict.

https://astronomy.com/news/2022/09/luna … d-conflict

SpaceNut · 2022-09-15 17:56:04

What you mine must be used by the one that has mined it as it's not something which can be sold..

tahanson43206 · 2022-09-15 18:04:06

For SpaceNut re #17

Your memory of whatever document you read may be excellent. I have no way of knowing.

However, your memory differs significantly from my understanding of existing "space law" (which is still in early formative stages).

Please provide links to any documents that support your position.

It is my understanding that Nation States cannot claim territory on a celestial body, but the property collected by a private citizen is theirs and it may be kept or sold or simply discarded.

This is important to have clearly established, so your efforts to find the source for your assertion would be worth while.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-09-15 18:16:14

post 31 in outer space treaty indicates the ownership and selling.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-12-28 18:16:11

'The First Secret Asteroid Mission Won't Be the Last'

https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/1 … t#comments

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-01 08:18:18

tahanson43206 wrote:

This post is about the ice injection asteroid mining concept originated by our Alaskan correspondent in the Knowledge forum.
There are several innovations to be attempted here, and I have some uncertainty about how well everything is going to work.
The link below is to a Google Document that is rendered in PDF format.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-z0UvZ … sp=sharing
If the link works, the file contains a conversation with Gemini in which two individuals participate.
The opening sequence was guided by the Alaskan, and I picked up the thread and carried it to a conclusion (of sorts)
The concluding sequence covers the use of the Moon as a suitable test environment for the Injected Ice harvesting method.
(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-04-01 08:50:53

Astronaut Rusty Schweickart On Asteroid Mining, AI, UFOs And More
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimclash/2 … ufos-more/

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-02 18:23:35

Here is a link to a Google Doc which ** should ** contain a brief conversation with Gemini about using water/steam to make ice to capture asteroid material.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hty … sp=sharing

The method could be tested on the Moon. The greater gravity would be challenging, but if equipment works on the Moon, it should work at an asteroid if the asteroid is a rubble pile.

Update after "talking" to GW Johnson ... In trying to describe the ice probe harvesting method to GW Johnson, I realized that the method could be tested right here on Earth. The test setup would be a freezer filled with small loosely bound objects such as ping pong balls. To prepare for the experiment, the freezer and it's contents would be cooled as far as the freezer can go. A perforated tube would be gently inserted into the mass of ping pong balls. Water would then be injected through the tube and the freezer would be allowed to freeze the water. After a period of time, the tube could be lifted, and a mass of ping pong balls should rise wit the tube. In space (of course) the gravity would be much less, so the quantity of material collected should be greater.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-10-09 06:06:21

A discussion of asteroid capture in a Moon topic might fit in this topic as well.

(th)

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#1 2019-10-26 06:10:28

Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#2 2019-10-26 08:47:20

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#3 2019-10-26 09:30:56

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#4 2019-10-29 19:06:55

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#5 2019-11-04 15:58:45

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#6 2019-11-04 17:04:49

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#7 2019-11-12 18:52:50

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#8 2019-11-12 20:37:47

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#9 2019-11-12 21:08:57

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#10 2019-11-13 17:01:36

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#11 2019-12-02 19:44:14

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#12 2019-12-02 20:20:56

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#13 2020-12-21 19:13:33

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#14 2020-12-21 19:20:30

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#15 2021-10-03 12:18:41

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#16 2022-09-15 09:02:02

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#17 2022-09-15 17:56:04

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#18 2022-09-15 18:04:06

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#19 2022-09-15 18:16:14

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#20 2023-12-28 18:16:11

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#21 2024-04-01 08:18:18

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#22 2024-04-01 08:50:53

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#23 2024-04-02 18:23:35

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

#24 2024-10-09 06:06:21

Re: Asteroid/off-Earth mining

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