Musk Presentation Thread...

louis · 2019-09-27 17:33:36

So what are you expecting or hoping from Musk's upcoming presentation?

Here's a video focussed on where we are and on Musk's presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrkxbuXN0VI

Last edited by louis (2019-09-27 17:38:30)

SpaceNut · 2019-09-27 20:06:30

https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-p … -musk.html

louis · 2019-09-28 01:38:39

My appetite is certainly whetted!...Musk has released so much information in advance, makes one think there must be even more juice in the presentation! Maybe it won't just be about the rocketry but also details about orbital tourism, lunar landings and proposals for the Mars base. Let's hope so!!!

Re the six landing legs...we had a v. interesting discussion about landing legs here. We discussed the merits of 3,4,5 and 6 I seem to recall! It is a surprise that the legs are directly under the rocket base rather than being built into the fins. Maybe the legs can be actuated to some degree and work with the fins to provide complete stability ie maybe the fins will stop the rocket toppling over, but the legs can be adjusted to create full stability and support the weight of the rocket...

SpaceNut wrote:

https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-p … -musk.html

Oldfart1939 · 2019-09-28 09:02:52

NASA Director, Jim Bridenstine, had this to say:

"I am looking forward to the SpaceX announcement tomorrow,” Bridenstine said. “In the meantime, commercial crew is years behind schedule. NASA expects to see the same level of enthusiasm focused on the investments of the American taxpayer. It’s time to deliver.”

This to me, sems a veiled threat towards Boeing and SLS. Does anyone else have that same interpretation.

louis · 2019-09-28 09:09:55

Yep!

Oldfart1939 wrote:

NASA Director, Jim Bridenstine, had this to say:
"I am looking forward to the SpaceX announcement tomorrow,” Bridenstine said. “In the meantime, commercial crew is years behind schedule. NASA expects to see the same level of enthusiasm focused on the investments of the American taxpayer. It’s time to deliver.”
This to me, sems a veiled threat towards Boeing and SLS. Does anyone else have that same interpretation.

GW Johnson · 2019-09-28 14:19:57

It's a veiled threat at both contractors, Boeing and Spacex. And by extension, eventually to the spaceplane that currently does not receive government contract support.

Spacex was a few months ahead of Boeing until their Crew Dragon blew up from a failed check valve that let NTO into the helium pressurization system. The reactive oxidizer ignited with the metals it was in contact with. Now the two are neck-and-neck in a delayed test series.

What NASA really wants is both Boeing's capsule, and Spacex's capsule available. And the spaceplane if they can possibly get it "for free" of government-paid development costs. What is so hard to understand about that?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-09-28 14:23:05)

louis · 2019-09-28 14:24:12

I posted a video recently which indicated NASA were v. impressed by Space X's Crew Dragon safety/escape procedures and might have to upgrade their standards in response.

GW Johnson wrote:

It's a veiled threat at both contractors, Boeing and Spacex. And by extension, eventually to the spaceplane that currently does not receive government contract support.
Spacex was a few months ahead of Boeing until their Crew Dragon blew up from a failed check valve that let NTO into the helium pressurization system. The reactive oxidizer ignited with the metals it was in contact with. Now the two are neck-and-neck in a delayed test series.
What NASA really wants is both Boeing's capsule, and Spacex's capsule available. and the spaceplane if they can possibly get it "for free" of government-paid development costs.
GW

louis · 2019-09-28 16:42:26

Here is Felix's live feed on the presentation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8n4UVaV66w

louis · 2019-09-29 03:26:25

So...an orbital flight within six months - by beginning of April 2020 say....and the possibility of a human flight by end 2020!

Well if he keeps up that schedule we can't rule out a 2024 date for humans on Mars.

A fleet of 20 Starships to be built.

I'm pleased that Musk understands the important of exporting consciousness from this planet to another. It will be an achievement of stunning proportions, up there with the invention of fire, the neolithic revolution and the industrial revolution.

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/spacex-el … -starship/

Last edited by louis (2019-09-29 03:37:25)

louis · 2019-09-29 06:51:02

8 min summary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTPYUox41bU

SpaceNut · 2019-09-29 09:59:02

Nasa, Boeing, Lockheed; pay attention to this

“If the schedule’s long, it’s wrong,” he told a crowd of journalists, employees and fans. “If it’s tight, it’s right.”

as the constellation sls monstrosity is not quick and was way to costly....

There are some great image details from the articles picture in that the rear wings are mounted like the shuttles which makes the under body for earth entry coated with a heat shield of some sort to withdstand the heat. That would also mean the leading edge of each require a shield for heat as well.

I see that the legs are in the bumped out housings along the end.

So far not much on the ships life support....

Oldfart1939 · 2019-09-29 10:00:53

Did anyone else see the interview by CNN? I normally avoid the Communist News Network, but the reporter asked Elon a great question re: Bridenstine's recent tweet about manned flight to ISS. Elon countered by asking her "Did he say manned spaceflight was behind schedule--or SLS?" Done with a twinkle in his eye and a chuckle!

SpaceNut · 2019-09-29 10:09:35

For SLS its both just as much as the use of starliner and Dragon crewed are...If we were to have the ater 2 workign for years already then we could say its nasa that is the issue for sls but thats not where we are.

CNN also = to others the Clinton News Network....all joking aside for the biasing of the networks we need to read between the lines on all of what we read as its almost always requiring more than one news location to confirm the truth...

louis · 2019-09-29 13:29:54

I heard they are going to use the same heat resistant tiles used on the Crew Dragon...

All well and good except the tiles on the CD did look like they took a bit of a bashing...could have implications for maintenance on Mars, though I am guessing the heat build up is less in the Mars atmosphere...

Musk made the point the Starship steel 310 (?) material is better at high temperatures than aluminium, so the tiles don't need to be so heavy duty.

Yes, first time I'd noticed those leg housings...does it suggest they are hydraulic so there is instant levelling out on landing?

SpaceNut wrote:

Nasa, Boeing, Lockheed; pay attention to this
“If the schedule’s long, it’s wrong,” he told a crowd of journalists, employees and fans. “If it’s tight, it’s right.”
as the constellation sls monstrosity is not quick and was way to costly....
There are some great image details from the articles picture in that the rear wings are mounted like the shuttles which makes the under body for earth entry coated with a heat shield of some sort to withdstand the heat. That would also mean the leading edge of each require a shield for heat as well.
I see that the legs are in the bumped out housings along the end.
https://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/upl … 0x630.jpeg
So far not much on the ships life support....

louis · 2019-09-29 13:32:42

Any mention of an escape system? NASA seem to set great store by that since the Shuttle disasters and I feel they have some influence in this area with the FAA. It's not obvious what the escape system would be for the Starship is it, or am I missing something?

SpaceNut · 2019-09-29 14:11:31

As a single stage vehicle no add on to the ship is possible as what cause a need to escape is engine issues. So if there is a problem its much be able to shut down the engines and land in the water as it will not be able to use the engines to land. If speed of impact is to great the ship will be lost....
The complete BFR escape is the first stage failure allows for the second stage to not get all the way to orbit but allows for the abort once they seperate. The issue would be one of can it return to target launch site with a full load of fuel...

More related articles

louis · 2019-09-29 15:54:45

I see - so for a two stage launch the whole of the Starship is the escape vehicle.

But if there is an explosion on the launch pad, that does create a problem for a single stage Starship launch.

SpaceNut wrote:

As a single stage vehicle no add on to the ship is possible as what cause a need to escape is engine issues. So if there is a problem its much be able to shut down the engines and land in the water as it will not be able to use the engines to land. If speed of impact is to great the ship will be lost....
The complete BFR escape is the first stage failure allows for the second stage to not get all the way to orbit but allows for the abort once they seperate. The issue would be one of can it return to target launch site with a full load of fuel...
More related articles

louis · 2019-09-30 08:04:35

Nice mini doc vid from SpaceXcentric (ex Cloudlicker) on how we got to where we are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amc-x2dVVsg

louis · 2019-10-01 10:36:17

Looks to me like the "Mars City" proposed by Musk is taking on a more realistic appearance. Check out the graphic at 1:17.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpp3HQP4I4

That is much more like the sort of layout I expect with the huge arc of solar panels half circling the settlement itself and a rocket standing some way (probably still not far enough!) from the city. Looks like there are agricultural units close to the solar panels.

I also "recognise" the enclosed surface walkways connecting the domes.

Perhaps they do read New Mars Forums!

Oldfart1939 · 2019-10-01 10:55:19

Did anyone else pick up on the juxtaposition of all Musk's business ventures? Solar City = source of Solar panels; he commented that a Tesla could be driven on Mars; the Boring Company could conceivably build underground habitats
.

louis · 2019-10-01 11:09:08

I haven't seen the whole presentation yet as the live presentation ended up being a bit too late for me but yes, it has been remarked before that virtually all Musk's ventures can be deemed as Mars-related and synergetic. Starlink could presumably provide Mars with an instant internet and GPS network with a decade of the first landings. Hyperloop could provide an alternative to the airline and rail transport we have on Earth (though Starships might provide the airline role).

Oldfart1939 wrote:

Did anyone else pick up on the juxtaposition of all Musk's business ventures? Solar City = source of Solar panels; he commented that a Tesla could be driven on Mars; the Boring Company could conceivably build underground habitats
.

SpaceNut · 2019-10-01 16:51:37

Oldfart1939 wrote:

Did anyone else pick up on the juxtaposition of all Musk's business ventures? Solar City = source of Solar panels; he commented that a Tesla could be driven on Mars; the Boring Company could conceivably build underground habitats
.

Well then he needs to build a nuclear plant or buy a company that makes them....Since that is how he is getting there...

tahanson43206 · 2019-10-01 17:18:39

For SpaceNut re #22 ...

Bravo! I really like that suggestion. The answer (as I see it) would be to look in Canada, where the government appears to be much more supportive of private industry development of small fission reactors, suitable for communities or (eventually) individual homes (or space vehicles). In order to become a Level 1 civilization, and assuming it does not kill itself off, the human race MUST master atomic power in all its forms.

In the past we humans have learned to master chemical processes which are inherently dangerous, and (so far) appear to have managed to restrain ourselves from killing off thousands or even millions with biological agents.

We humans MUST learn to control our urges to do evil, but I concede it is going to be tough going for the next few hundred years, if we make it that far.

Setting aside the urge to do evil, there remains the ever-present risk of sheer stupidity, or extreme carelessness.

Will humanity survive the 21st century? - Vox
https://www.vox.com › future-perfect › 2018/10/18 › science-technology-...
Oct 18, 2018 - Why cosmologist Martin Rees gives humanity a 50-50 chance of surviving the 21st century. ... Disruptions of this kind will be a growing problem in our future, and it .... something posthuman, in order to survive for another 100 centuries? ... more than 2,000 years ago, because the character of human beings ...

(th)

louis · 2019-10-01 17:30:24

Lol! They ain't going to take no nukes with them!!

SpaceNut wrote:

Oldfart1939 wrote:
Did anyone else pick up on the juxtaposition of all Musk's business ventures? Solar City = source of Solar panels; he commented that a Tesla could be driven on Mars; the Boring Company could conceivably build underground habitats
.
Well then he needs to build a nuclear plant or buy a company that makes them....Since that is how he is getting there...

louis · 2019-10-01 17:32:05

I can't for the life of me think why people keeping going back to nuclear when it is absolutely clear Space X intend on relying on solar power as their principal energy source on Mars. It couldn't really be much clearer.

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut re #22 ...
Bravo! I really like that suggestion. The answer (as I see it) would be to look in Canada, where the government appears to be much more supportive of private industry development of small fission reactors, suitable for communities or (eventually) individual homes (or space vehicles). In order to become a Level 1 civilization, and assuming it does not kill itself off, the human race MUST master atomic power in all its forms.
In the past we humans have learned to master chemical processes which are inherently dangerous, and (so far) appear to have managed to restrain ourselves from killing off thousands or even millions with biological agents.
We humans MUST learn to control our urges to do evil, but I concede it is going to be tough going for the next few hundred years, if we make it that far.
Setting aside the urge to do evil, there remains the ever-present risk of sheer stupidity, or extreme carelessness.
Will humanity survive the 21st century? - Vox
https://www.vox.com › future-perfect › 2018/10/18 › science-technology-...
Oct 18, 2018 - Why cosmologist Martin Rees gives humanity a 50-50 chance of surviving the 21st century. ... Disruptions of this kind will be a growing problem in our future, and it .... something posthuman, in order to survive for another 100 centuries? ... more than 2,000 years ago, because the character of human beings ...
(th)

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#1 2019-09-27 17:33:36

Musk Presentation Thread...

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