Error on error - debunker debunked...

louis · 2019-04-29 18:34:10

Thunderfront specialises in debunking groundless claims often ones with a tech aspect.

But he's taken a mistep with this video suggesting Mars colonisation in the next few years is a bogus claim:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfrlfYQw_d4

His analysis is full of distortions, errors, false comparisons and irrelevances:

1. He makes vague references to Mars One and Space X mixing the implausible and plausible.

2. He goes on a very long detour about humidity on Mars. NASA might be lumbering but they aren't stupid. They've studied extraction of water from the Mars atmosphere and I think we can assume they understand the relationship between pressure, temperature and yield. They find such extraction technologies are perfectly feasible on Mars. Of course he ignores the other possibilities: extraction from an equatorial glacier or ice lake; extraction of water from the permafrost-type regolith; transfer from the Polar region; or chemical production of water.

3. He claims there will be no spare parts. Space X are planning to take about 500 tonnes on Mission One. Plenty of mass allowed for spare parts plus 3D printers and materials processing machinery, so we can manufacture parts using Mars ISRU if necessary (though I doubt it will be necessary on Mission 1).

4. He references Biosphere. No one, unless an idiot, is proposing setting up a closed complex ecosystem on Mars. There will be people habs and agrihabs but the latter will be entirely plant based for the foreseeable future. So this objection about the Biosphere is nonsense.

5. He references the cost of the ISS for a Mars mission - $150 billion. No one who wanted the lowest price ISS would build it the way it was actually built - involving several space bureaucracies, one time use rockets and a kind of organic growth over, what, 20 years. So this cost reference is meaningless.

6. Then he's on to nonsense about lemons to ISS costing $2000 each. Well (a) I am sure Space X will get them up to ISS far cheaper than that and (b) cost of cargo to Mars is irrelevant if revenue covers the cost.

7. Then nonsense based on the Mars One proposal about people living out their lives in tiny tin cans on Mars.

8. He then mixes up several separate Space X programmes rendering his comments meaningless.

9. He makes a great deal of the fact we will be living in caves on Mars. That is not a necessity. We have discussed here plenty of ways of protecting habs from radiation on the surface including ice and regolith layers. Caves are more likely to be used for storage.

10. Then he's on to some irrelevant comparisons with Scott of the Antarctica's ill fated mission.

It's incredible how much ignorance is still around about colonisation. Space X could do more to educate people I think. The reality is:-

-Water supply is not a big issue. There are several solutions and I am sure Mission One will have a lot of water on board plus a very advanced water recycling facility with back-up.

- Spare parts will not be an issue. Mission One will carry hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of spare parts I expect. It will have 3D printers available.

- No one is going to try and develop closed ecosystems in the early stages of colonisation. Accommodation habs, farm habs and industrial habs will be kept very separate.

- The Mars Mission and colony will be highly profitable. No need to worry about the cost of getting there.

- Early colonists will have a great time on Mars. They will know they are at the leading edge of history. They are the pioneers whose deeds will be remembered down the ages. They will be engaged in exploration of the planet making important new discoveries. They will see sights never seen before by humans. There will be recreational facilities: gyms, basketball courts, badminton courts. In time there will be enclosed natural habitats replicating Earth-like environments. They won't be cooped up in tin cans. There will be work to do. They will be moving from one hab to another, addressing problems, finding solutions...checking on energy installations...meeting with fellow pioneers to discuss future action. They can engage in art - maybe some will be artists. Or maybe they will help realise the structural designs of Earth-based artists. They will have a full range of audio-visual entertainment. They will be in communication with friends and loved ones back on Mars via e mail. Eventually they will return to Earth as heroes.

Void · 2019-04-29 19:21:16

Yes, this guy is depressive to a manic. That is yes there are those who overhype Mars achievability, and of course we should be concerned not to follow them blindly, but I do agree as an example that his criticism of Biosphere whatever, is not a reasonable one. As, the did have to tap the Earths atmosphere to correct an imbalance inside the Biosphere, on Mars, you could similarly but of course not as easily tap the Martian atmosphere to rebalance your environment.

I found his understanding of Relative Humidity to be quite questionable. And indeed, a human on Mars is not going to stand outside and exhale their moisture into the Martian atmosphere. So, like a cactus, any Martian habitation will give up moisture very grudgingly. And so, even a rather small input of moisture from the Martian environment will go much further than it would in the examples he has given.

As I have said he either does not understand Relative Humidity, or chooses to misrepresent reality in order to publish. A lot of that goes around both Manic and Depressive. It sells the news, so it is done.

I myself can see methods to do it on a large scale. But SpaceX to my knowledge intends to mine water. I have reservations about that, might seek a more easy plan, but he does not with decency address mining water from ice deposits. That discredits his article all by itself.

He has cherry picked worst cases for the best case in order to validate himself, and his arguments.

Having said all of that I value his video, as it is indeed a reality check. However it has to be contrasted to the manic version of the possible. And somewhere in between may be discovered what is worth a try.

As I see it, SpaceX per Elon Musk does give the best case optimism, but then really tries step by step, and when they fall off their bikes and skin their knees, they heal up and try again, and eventually seem to get there. At least so far.

Are Elon Musks goals too optimistic in the timeline. Very likely. But that is not all because of physical reality. Quite a lot of it will have to do with social reality. There are a lot of entities that stand to benefit by damaging what he and SpaceX are trying to do.

Their is a type and group, that has always existed by plundering shipwrecks. When they see activity towards the positive, rather than pitching in they instead try to predate on that process.

This is the problem of circular vs linear human activity. They are both needed. When you are under deep stress the circular may help you hold your position under very bad circumstances, so that is it's value. But when it simply like rotting tissue seeks to feed on the living and active advancements of the linear (Point A to Point B), they are the potential death of the human race.

The key is to understand when it is best to be circular and when it is best to be linear. Not easy to decide. But don't let snake oil salespeople of ether type succeed in deception if you can help it.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-04-29 19:34:27)

SpaceNut · 2019-04-29 21:18:36

Biosphere's failure was the biology that got brought in without the consideration as to what it would do.

Mars has limited biology, to which man will bring with them and build the habitat within for mars use.

The iss is closer to mars than the biosphere was in that we know we need to resupply it as its not perfect in that sense.

Mars however will need to be even better than the biosphere as the time to getting help will mean death if we can not correct any issues that we might have. Having all the power in the world will not fix a food problem. Having a power failure for extended periods of time will not fix the cold, the lack of food, breathable air...

louis · 2019-04-30 00:56:31

Biosphere was an incredibly complex ecosystem (including insects and animal life) put into a box, so to speak. There's no way anyone will
attempt that on Mars at any date in the near future. We'll have very controlled environments, much more like the ISS (where people have been living for I think it's a couple of decades now) than Biosphere. The farm habs and industrial habs on Mars will be separate from the accommodation habs. Initially the range of plants grown in the farm habs will be fairly limited. No one's going to try for a replication of the Amazonian jungle at the off. In time we will learn how to create more complex environments replicating natural habitats on Earth but it's not a top priority.

Sorry, I missed the reference to mining ice deposits. But, as you say, that in effect cancels the long discourse on water extraction from the atmosphere, which isn't as conclusive as he thinks in any case.

What he doesn't seem to appreciate, ironically, is that there isn't a big issue with water for living on Mars. With basic recycling and usage minimisation (wipes instead of showers), you could essentially just take your water with you on a 500 tonne mission. Of course the real challenge is that Mission One needs to secure thousands of tonnes of water on Mars in order to be able to make the fuel/propellant that will enable the crew to return to Earth. That is probably the key challenge of Mission One. Space X haven't yet explained in detail how they will bring it all together: ice mining and transportation , chemical separation and propellant production. Or indeed, how they will refurbish rockets on Mars and then launch them (launch pads and so on).

Yes, a lot of "bad cherry" picking going on.

I have to admit that the 2024 goal, while still feasible, is unlikely to be achieved not least because I feel the Crew Dragon debacle is going to drain a lot of energy (and possibly money) away and also raise doubts more generally over reused hardware that will have to be addressed. But given the rapid development of the Starship a 2026 date is certainly achievable.

Void wrote:

Yes, this guy is depressive to a manic. That is yes there are those who overhype Mars achievability, and of course we should be concerned not to follow them blindly, but I do agree as an example that his criticism of Biosphere whatever, is not a reasonable one. As, the did have to tap the Earths atmosphere to correct an imbalance inside the Biosphere, on Mars, you could similarly but of course not as easily tap the Martian atmosphere to rebalance your environment.
I found his understanding of Relative Humidity to be quite questionable. And indeed, a human on Mars is not going to stand outside and exhale their moisture into the Martian atmosphere. So, like a cactus, any Martian habitation will give up moisture very grudgingly. And so, even a rather small input of moisture from the Martian environment will go much further than it would in the examples he has given.
As I have said he either does not understand Relative Humidity, or chooses to misrepresent reality in order to publish. A lot of that goes around both Manic and Depressive. It sells the news, so it is done.
I myself can see methods to do it on a large scale. But SpaceX to my knowledge intends to mine water. I have reservations about that, might seek a more easy plan, but he does not with decency address mining water from ice deposits. That discredits his article all by itself.
He has cherry picked worst cases for the best case in order to validate himself, and his arguments.

Having said all of that I value his video, as it is indeed a reality check. However it has to be contrasted to the manic version of the possible. And somewhere in between may be discovered what is worth a try.
As I see it, SpaceX per Elon Musk does give the best case optimism, but then really tries step by step, and when they fall off their bikes and skin their knees, they heal up and try again, and eventually seem to get there. At least so far.
Are Elon Musks goals too optimistic in the timeline. Very likely. But that is not all because of physical reality. Quite a lot of it will have to do with social reality. There are a lot of entities that stand to benefit by damaging what he and SpaceX are trying to do.
Their is a type and group, that has always existed by plundering shipwrecks. When they see activity towards the positive, rather than pitching in they instead try to predate on that process.
This is the problem of circular vs linear human activity. They are both needed. When you are under deep stress the circular may help you hold your position under very bad circumstances, so that is it's value. But when it simply like rotting tissue seeks to feed on the living and active advancements of the linear (Point A to Point B), they are the potential death of the human race.
The key is to understand when it is best to be circular and when it is best to be linear. Not easy to decide. But don't let snake oil salespeople of ether type succeed in deception if you can help it.
Done.

louis · 2019-04-30 01:11:39

Yes, I made the same point about the ISS being the model more rather than Biosphere in my reply to Void.

Indeed we need to ensure that there is full back up on Mars. Doubling up is a good principle. So you might for instance split your crew of 6 into two three person Starships that each have the capacity for 6. And each Starship should have a complete back-up life support system it can switch to.

Then, as I mentioned, you will want a huge number of spare parts, 3D printers, raw material stock and so on to ensure just about anything of reasonable size can be replicated or manufactured on Mars. Obviously for the trip there and back you want to ensure there is a full range of spare parts for the life support system.

Mission One will have a large food store comprising fresh food (e.g. apples preserved over a long period), powdered food, energy and protein bars, frozen food, chilled food, tinned food, vacuum pack meals, oils, grains, pulses , preserves and vitamin/mineral pills. A 6 person mission might need something like 7 tonnes. Again you are going to take at least double that to allow for a rescue mission if they get stranded for two years (return launch failure) and probably double again since you will want to allow for Starship failures. So maybe take something like 30 tonnes of food spread across four Starships.

Mission One is really the most hazardous part of the settlement enterprise. Once the base is secure and propellant production is up and running,and you have a more or less permanent human presence on the planet, things become much easier.

SpaceNut wrote:

Biosphere's failure was the biology that got brought in without the consideration as to what it would do.
Mars has limited biology, to which man will bring with them and build the habitat within for mars use.
The iss is closer to mars than the biosphere was in that we know we need to resupply it as its not perfect in that sense.
Mars however will need to be even better than the biosphere as the time to getting help will mean death if we can not correct any issues that we might have. Having all the power in the world will not fix a food problem. Having a power failure for extended periods of time will not fix the cold, the lack of food, breathable air...

Void · 2019-04-30 08:39:09

The relative differences between;
1)-Biosphere
2)-ISS
3)-Moon Base>>>Eventual maturation
4)-Mars Initial Settlement>>>Partially terraformed planet.

1) For Biosphere, it was considered shameful, when it became necessary to bring in supplies from outside of Biosphere. If we do something in space however, there is no shame in doing what works for the best. In retrospect, Biosphere was a tree-hugger, artistic dream. Not un-useful, but really had the wrong goals. To simulate Mars, they should have provided a Mars mix gas through an intake, and also solar energy, so that they could rebalance a small hard to balance terrarium with outside make-up resources. That would have been a better simulation.

2) The ISS clearly uses a make-up materials support system. It is very hard to accomplish, and is very expensive. That is resupply ships.
Of course the price of a Lemon is ~$2000.00 under those circumstances. Vitamins at first could help and be lighter than Lemons I should think, as another member has mentioned. However if we assume that a Lemon delivered by Falcon 9 costs $2000.00 (And I think it can do better than that), then the hope for Starship is that it can reduce that cost by a factor of at least 10. So 'Lemon cost =<$200.00'. The ISS does not have "Make-Up" materials to use in growing lemons in space however. The Moon to some extent and Mars for sure does have such. However to grow something most likely Lemons would be replace by an easier crop on the Moon and Mars.

3) The Moon potentially has most or all of the needed "Make-Up" materials to sustain an established Moon Base>>>Eventual maturation. And the Earth and or NEO's, or even possibly Mars/Phobos/Demos can supply what else is necessary. Carbon comes to mind as a defficite, but I think I recall that there may even be Carbon Monoxide in the polar deposits. The Moon technically has a better solar flux than the Earth. Of course that also being harsh to life, if you don't handle it correctly.

4) Mars very likely has the full spectrum of needed materials to "Make-Up" for fluctuations in the terrariums which might be included in an expanding infrastructure of the habitation. It will obviously be dependent on a resupply from Earth/Moon in the early days, but as time would go by and asap per cost imports should be brought to a minimum. We are not going to be shipping Lemons to Mars I should think. Surely there would be a way to prevent nutritional ill health by more economic and likely local means.

I will shorten my blabermouthing to express the opinion that indeed the Moon is a centerpiece of the hopes of going to Mars with a civilization expansion.

Yes, if you just want to do a prance and dance on the surface of Mars around flag(s), then do skip the Moon. But if you want to develop space economics that are more to be sustained, and later develop gymnast level lifting capability do include the Moon in your plans. While it will be initially a bit of a diversion, it also will be a testing ground for hardware, and a gymnasium to develop skills, and in the long run, "Make-Up" materials from the Moon will be of great assistance in getting Massive amounts of "Stuff" to Mars. Laying an egg on Mars like a reptile, is not the model. We are human and propose to be more nurturing to the young than even the best Mammals. Or we should be, and in this case we should imagine what a >Human might do to initiate a procreative activity of making Mars alive. Short term thinking is not the way to go.

A little more about the Moon, and Starship.....
https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-dro … -the-moon/

In some ways the Moon is more merciful than the Mars requirements obviously.
As in any childhood where you are learning to ride a bike, you might consider training wheels. For the Moon this could be allowed. You could fix additional landing gear to the base of the ship. Deploy/Attach it in LEO, use it to also hold additional cargo. If you have too much cargo, then just don't go to the Moon with as much cargo in the upper cargo compartment. If you want to repurpose the frame, then you can leave it behind on the Moon to help build the Moon base. If you want to re-use it for another mission, then I guess it has to be able to detach from the Starship in Moon orbit and have it's own propulsion system to return to LEO.

Again like a gym starting with the easier and getting towards a better skill of heavy lifting needed to go to Mars.

However Elon says that Starship will....Be able to land on uneven ground of the Moon safely.

……

This article is just one of many imagined routes to getting useful Hydrogen. However it shows that we might look for a source of Hydrogen on Mars though a method such as it. That "Make-Up" material could be the foundation for rebalancing small artificial eco-systems.
https://techxplore.com/news/2019-04-sol … light.html

If you have Hydrogen, you can make Methane. Presumably the process also produces Oxygen as well. If you have Methane you can make liquid Hydrocarbons, and many other needed chemicals. So, again not the Biosphere, or the ISS.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-04-30 09:19:52)

louis · 2019-04-30 13:43:29

I've always been keen on creating pleasant Earth-like natural space on Mars as soon as possible where you can walk, run and cycle for Kms at a time. I've argued for using natural or artificial gorges to create these recreational spaces. I think they will be crucial to creating an inviting environment on Mars which will attract people to permanently settle on the planet. The gorges could be connected by tunnels with air locks, so extending the area you can explore and exercise in.

These spaces could be thought of as terrariums. I very much doubt though we would rush to create complex ecosystems. We'd probably start with something much more basic: grass, a range of flowers, small range of shrubs and trees. The atmosphere would consist of oxygen, CO2 , inert gases and water vapour. The atmosphere would be monitored constantly. When out of balance, it would be partially vented and rebalanced from gas storage tanks.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-30 18:15:06

The Iss is getting an upgrade for life support but I would not call it food.

Photobioreactor: oxygen and a source of nutrition for astronauts

It does look some what like the current units at least for some of its components.

The Life Support Rack (LSR) of the European Space Agency (ESA) has been on the ISS since October 2018. The rack, which was built by Airbus and was formerly known as the ACLS (Advanced Closed Loop System), collects the carbon dioxide (CO2) exhaled by the astronauts and uses a Sabatier process to convert this back into oxygen by means of electrolysis. The ISS experiment 'PBR@LSR' is a technology demonstration designed to convert CO2 into oxygen and biomass. To achieve this, the PBR will be connected to the LSR physicochemical system (hybrid approach) and operated for up to 180 days, during which time the stability and performance of the system and the algae culture will be recorded and evaluated.
The Chlorella vulgaris microalgae was selected as the photosynthesiser, which is already being used as a food (supplement), as it is very rich in protein. In future, some 30% of the astronauts' food could be replaced by this algal biomass.
The CO2 required is, for the most part, to be supplied by the LSR. In the event that no CO2 is available, the algae can also be supplied with the CO2 it needs from a bottle carried on board. The algae is fed with a nutrient solution every 14 days, while at the same time being thinned out to allow new algae space to grow. Once the experiment is complete, the performance and life cycles of the culture will be evaluated, with several samples sent back to Earth for genetic analysis.

Void · 2019-04-30 18:27:17

Very good Louis and Spacenut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorella_vulgaris

I pretty much think that AS-THE-TICK places will be needed. What Louis likes falls more into that. And then we need a bio-pyramid.

That is a massive ability to grow crud foods, and a smaller ability to grow aesthetic foods. The various habitats should as is possible also all be pleasing to humans, except in the case where productivity is prohibited.

It happened again. Lost a whole page of stuff, trying to do a save. Not in the mood this time.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-04-30 18:38:13)

SpaceNut · 2019-04-30 19:25:59

Ouch been there plenty with my clunker of a computer....maybe santa will be good to me this year.

I think that I posted about an algea brownie mix a long time ago so its going to be a filler to make things like floor from earth strech out further until we can grow our own for sure.

Lots of buzz words in the wiki but what I notice is that its quite useable for a variety of building blocks such as fuel, medicines, of course food, dietary suplement as in vitamins and protiens.

louis · 2019-05-01 05:30:45

It's annoying when that happens. If I know I'm going to produce a long screed I try to remember to produce it in Word first!

Thanks for the link re the algae...all was going well till the last line about why it hasn't been more widely adopted: "dark green colour and its smell, which is close to that of fish."

I was thinking it could be used as a general additive to soups and buckwheat pancakes. We certainly need protein substitutes for meat. But perhaps it should just be taken as a "hold-your-nose" additive.

We will need large natural light facilities eventually - the energy input for agriculture in the absence of natural light is just insanely high.

I suspect that initially these are more likely to be pressurised inflatables imported from Earth which can be interconnected by inflatable pressurised tunnels. They would similar to polytunnels on Earth. They might be pressurised to a few bar of CO2 - I seem to recall 14MB being mentioned as the minimum but it might be lower with 100% CO2 mix. Anyway, I think the lower pressure would allow for transparent plastic inflatable farm habs. There would be robot monitors that could be operated from outside by Mars colonists. For many crops robot harvesters could be used but obviously farm monitors would need to make personal interventions on a regular basis. I think at 14MB just a tight body suit would be fine. Clearly breathing apparatus would be required.

I think we would need to use reflectors to maximise the solar radiation falling on the farm hab. This is one of the problems I have with the idea of a large farm dome. It would be difficult or impossible to arrange reflectors for such a large structure - although putting in the middle of a crater might help.

Void wrote:

Very good Louis and Spacenut.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorella_vulgaris
I pretty much think that AS-THE-TICK places will be needed. What Louis likes falls more into that. And then we need a bio-pyramid.
That is a massive ability to grow crud foods, and a smaller ability to grow aesthetic foods. The various habitats should as is possible also all be pleasing to humans, except in the case where productivity is prohibited.
It happened again. Lost a whole page of stuff, trying to do a save. Not in the mood this time.
Done.

Void · 2019-05-01 11:28:54

Well your notions in the previous post seem reasonable. And I agree, over time, productive methods using direct and/or reflected sunlight are desired.

Where the example you gave was practical for startup, that is U.V. tolerant inflatables imported from Earth, down the road, I see a best practice to include multi-layered glazes. And the jury will be out on that for some time, until a reality based technology is appropriated from learning/testing. But my reasoning is that we do not want to at first reject the U.V. photons. They ultimately hold energy which can be converted to heat.

So, down the road when the Mars civilization is capable, an outer shell of glass glaze which does not particularly block U.V. light, to allow it into a "Heat Trap".

Then somehow another layer which absorbs the U.V. but preferentially allows visible light to pass.

If we are going to go low pressure, then each layer of glaze, could allow for a "Fan" pressurization of outside Martian atmosphere into them. Perhaps bumping the interior pressure up maybe 20-65 mb??? In such a situation you are not so concerned about small leaks in the glazing, although it should be possible to have "Squirt" robots which would plug such small leaks with a squirted material. I presume they should be able to detect the leaks with sound and thermal variations. If they cannot hear through the attenuated atmosphere, then they could have a vibration monitor which they could press against the glaze, to detect leaks, and to identify which direction to go to in order to pinpoint them.

Such a system would leak moisture under many situations however, so inside, I propose a bladder pressurized and moisture protective.

So, really you would have one layer to allow U.V. in and yet allow a small additional pressurization in the interior. A second with U.V. protection, and a third of common U.V. intolerant "Plastic" web. The final layer being moisture protective, and also another pressurization layer. However inside of the bladder, although you might pass Martian atmosphere into it, you would not tolerate small leaks.

Therefore, as CO2 is converted into Oxygen and Plant mass, Nitrogen and Argon will accumulate as a percentage. So the output would be something like "Air" as we know it, and also plant mass.

Frankly before being able to have the infrastructure to achieve the above, I anticipate that we would if we were there on Mars want to before that work with a different technology working with LED's, and very low quality materials such as Salt Bonded arches of Martian materials, and a rather easy to make metal of relatively low quality. Perhaps I will talk of that at some point.

Done.

This time I won. The stupid process again tried to dump my last paragraphs, but I had stored the text. So, it worked out.

Last edited by Void (2019-05-01 11:46:30)

louis · 2019-05-01 19:41:37

I agree the "heat trap" multi-glaze approach makes sense.

I have previously dabbled with the "fan pressurisation" idea wondering if you can thereby mitigate the pressurisation problem. It's certainly something that needs looking at.

I think initial farm habs (probably over the first decade) will all be artificially lit using LEDs. A colony of even 100 people only requires about 55 tons of food per (Earth) year.

Void wrote:

Well your notions in the previous post seem reasonable. And I agree, over time, productive methods using direct and/or reflected sunlight are desired.
Where the example you gave was practical for startup, that is U.V. tolerant inflatables imported from Earth, down the road, I see a best practice to include multi-layered glazes. And the jury will be out on that for some time, until a reality based technology is appropriated from learning/testing. But my reasoning is that we do not want to at first reject the U.V. photons. They ultimately hold energy which can be converted to heat.
So, down the road when the Mars civilization is capable, an outer shell of glass glaze which does not particularly block U.V. light, to allow it into a "Heat Trap".
Then somehow another layer which absorbs the U.V. but preferentially allows visible light to pass.
If we are going to go low pressure, then each layer of glaze, could allow for a "Fan" pressurization of outside Martian atmosphere into them. Perhaps bumping the interior pressure up maybe 20-65 mb??? In such a situation you are not so concerned about small leaks in the glazing, although it should be possible to have "Squirt" robots which would plug such small leaks with a squirted material. I presume they should be able to detect the leaks with sound and thermal variations. If they cannot hear through the attenuated atmosphere, then they could have a vibration monitor which they could press against the glaze, to detect leaks, and to identify which direction to go to in order to pinpoint them.
Such a system would leak moisture under many situations however, so inside, I propose a bladder pressurized and moisture protective.
So, really you would have one layer to allow U.V. in and yet allow a small additional pressurization in the interior. A second with U.V. protection, and a third of common U.V. intolerant "Plastic" web. The final layer being moisture protective, and also another pressurization layer. However inside of the bladder, although you might pass Martian atmosphere into it, you would not tolerate small leaks.
Therefore, as CO2 is converted into Oxygen and Plant mass, Nitrogen and Argon will accumulate as a percentage. So the output would be something like "Air" as we know it, and also plant mass.
Frankly before being able to have the infrastructure to achieve the above, I anticipate that we would if we were there on Mars want to before that work with a different technology working with LED's, and very low quality materials such as Salt Bonded arches of Martian materials, and a rather easy to make metal of relatively low quality. Perhaps I will talk of that at some point.
Done.
This time I won. The stupid process again tried to dump my last paragraphs, but I had stored the text. So, it worked out.

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