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#1 2019-03-11 19:45:02

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 313

Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

Dr. Robert Zubrin, President of the Mars Society, will be visiting China in late March to give a series of public lectures on planning for human Mars exploration and the importance of international cooperation in exploring space. He will also be attending the inaugural meeting of the Mars Society China chapter and discussing his premier book on Mars exploration, "The Case for Mars", which was published in Chinese. For more details, please visit the Mars Society China Facebook page at: https://www.facebook.com/TheMarsSocietyInChina.

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#2 2019-03-12 02:00:51

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,357

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

How has the Chinese Communist government repaid international co-operation with the US over the last 50 years? I think we know the answer. Very naive.


EdwardHeisler wrote:

Dr. Robert Zubrin, President of the Mars Society, will be visiting China in late March to give a series of public lectures on planning for human Mars exploration and the importance of international cooperation in exploring space. He will also be attending the inaugural meeting of the Mars Society China chapter and discussing his premier book on Mars exploration, "The Case for Mars", which was published in Chinese. For more details, please visit the Mars Society China Facebook page at: https://www.facebook.com/TheMarsSocietyInChina.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#3 2019-03-12 07:41:37

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,656

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

SearchTerm:ChinaVisit

As reported by EdwardHeisler in Post #1 of this topic, Dr. Robert Zubrin will be visiting China in late March of 2019.

It is possible that Chinese audience members may learn of the NewMars forum, which is an activity of the Mars Society.  It would be beneficial for all members of the forum, and for readers who are not presently members, if the point of view of the Chinese Space Program were to be represented in this forum.

The history of China goes back more than 3,000 years (of course) but written records are (apparently) available for 3,000 years or so.  The last authoritarian dynasty was overthrown in 1912.  Dr. Zubrin's initiative is an opportunity for members of this forum to thoughtfully consider the history of China, and particularly the role played by western agencies, such as Great Britain.  My top level interpretation of events in the 20th century is that in the struggle between the Republic of China and the movement started by Mao Zedong, the Mao led contingent did a better job of enlisting the peasants, who made up the majority of the population at the time.

Again at the top level, it appears to me that the people of China have become accustomed to authoritarian rule under a series of dynasties, and that in recent decades they have embraced it in an updated form, with the simultaneous development of capitalism harnessed in pursuit of national goals.  One consequence (of many that might be discussed here) is that if the leadership of the country decide to expand into space, they will do so in a methodical way which will set a standard other nations may struggle to emulate.

It might be interesting for forum members to consider Chinese Space Policy as it has evolved in recent years.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-03-13 10:39:07)

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#4 2019-03-12 19:10:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

Thread lightly with what is shared as it can come back to haunt you...

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#5 2019-10-31 08:14:16

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,656

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

This is for SpaceNut ...

SpaceNut wrote:

Thread lightly with what is shared as it can come back to haunt you...

Some time has gone by and I'm hoping you will revisit what made you uncomfortable about my post.

(th)

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#6 2019-10-31 16:33:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

Only the casual caution as some that were in the topic tend to be confrontational.
The topic its self is sort of stail in that not much was meantioned of any out come or path to the future which is still a no go on the Nasa side of launch business.

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#7 2019-10-31 16:48:41

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 240

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

I would have to agree with Spacenut and Louis.  The Chinese are geopolitical rivals to the western world, that have stolen huge amounts of intellectual property. They fully intend to dominate the world and spread their authoritarian control everywhere.  I would not personally do anything to help these people, nor would I give them anything that I didn't have to.


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#8 2019-10-31 17:28:47

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,798

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

I can only agree with Calliban and SpaceNut, re: cooperation with Chinese and thefts of intellectual property. I was victimized by the ChiComs about 20 years ago, and it severely affected the retirement I was building at the time.

I simply say F*ck 'em. Sorry, but this is one of my "hot buttons."

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#9 2019-10-31 20:38:18

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,120

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

I simply fail to see what the Chinese bring to the table when it comes to space exploration.  If they even made an attempt to act like partners instead of adversaries, then maybe we could work something out.  Thus far, they've shown no inclination to actually behave like a trustworthy partner acting in good faith.  Their only demonstrated interest in our space program is exploiting it to improve their military capabilities and it's not in America's interests to advance Chinese military capabilities.  Despite the fact that both the American and Russian governments are constantly playing stupid military games with stupid prizes, our space agencies have shown the ability to cooperate for mutual benefit.  I could see going to Mars with the Europeans and Russians.  The potential Chinese contribution to that effort remains a giant question mark.  It really would be beneficial to have an expert-level mass-manufacturing base available when the time comes.  I just wish they would stop seeing international cooperation as some sort of zero-sum game that it's never been.  That's the primary problem with having a dictator running a country.  They're constantly paranoid about things they don't need to be paranoid about, so they behave accordingly.

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#10 2019-11-01 03:42:29

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,170
Website

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

At least they have confidence in their civilisation. Possibly. Which is more than can be said for the West.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#11 2019-11-01 23:47:02

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,120

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

Terraformer,

People who have confidence in their society don't require a Police State to mass murder their own citizens any time a few of them dare to question or protest poor treatment received from their government.  The communist system is a dead end, figuratively and literally.  It's no different than the most capricious dictatorship or monarchy in actual practice whenever humans are involved.  Eventually, it always devolves into anarchy.  Thereafter, as a function of ignorance, the "democracy cycle" repeats.

As poor as our leadership is, "communist leadership" is virtually non-existent.  I could never make such a remark as the subject of a communist government without being imprisoned, tortured, and/or murdered.  Oddly enough, despite the often petty nature of the people in our own government, they have no such authority to curtail my freedom to criticize their behavior.  Furthermore, any attempt to do so would result in a swift rebuke by both our Judiciary and, if absolutely necessary, our own military.

Thuggery, which is what "communist leadership" amounts to in practice, is most definitely not concerned at all with the welfare of its people.  It's about maintaining a power structure that benefits those in power.  We citizens may choose to vote any of our leaders out of office at any time and for any reason.  The subjects of communist governments have no such recourse.  As I recall, China's President Xi was simply declared President for life without any input from the people.  Americans would bust a gut if our government ever made such a declaration, before promptly voting every sorry one of them out of office.

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#12 2019-11-02 02:56:14

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,170
Website

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

Having confidence in your civilisation doesn't mean the elites having confidence in the masses. You have confused the two.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#13 2019-11-02 08:50:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

Fear of reprisal for thinking that one has the same rights as the elites is not confidence its survival for you and family.

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#14 2019-11-02 10:37:14

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,170
Website

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

I'm not talking about that, either. Who's on top at the moment is a separate issue to whether or not you believe your culture, and the civilisation of which it is part, is good and deserves to continue existing.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#15 2019-11-02 12:46:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin, to Visit China

People in and of themselves are not normally or inherintly evil of corruption to which being elite or poor does not change whom will do selfish acts to hurt others. To which those that do feel they have the right to do so versus those that do not which have the same right to not be harmed. That's inner belief that all are equal and that you do have rights to be happy but not at the expense of others.

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