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#1 2018-11-12 11:15:29

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

California Wildfires

California wildfires are nothing new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_California_wildfires

The 2017 California wildfire season was the most destructive wildfire season on record, which saw multiple wildfires burning across California. A total of 9,133 fires burned 1,381,405 acres, according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, including five of the 20 most destructive wildland-urban interface fires in the state's history. Throughout 2017, the fires destroyed or damaged more than 10,000 structures in the state, a higher tally than the previous nine years combined. State data showed that the large wildfires killed 47 people – 45 civilians and 2 firefighters – almost higher than the previous 10 years combined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2 … _wildfires

The October 2017 Northern California wildfires, also known as the Northern California firestorm, were a series of 250 wildfires that started burning across the state of California, United States, beginning in early October. Twenty-one became major fires that burned at least 245,000 acres. The wildfires broke out throughout Napa, Lake, Sonoma, Mendocino, Butte, and Solano Counties during severe fire weather conditions, effectively leading to a major red flag warning for much of the Northern California

This years has been no different in the number and intensity that these fires have burned with...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires

The 2018 California wildfire season has been one of the most destructive on record in the state of California. During 2018, a total of 7,579 fires had burned an area of 1,667,855 acres, the largest amount of burned acreage recorded in a California fire season, according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection and the National Interagency Fire Center, as of November 11. The fires caused over $2.975 billion in damages, including $1.366 billion in fire suppression costs. Through the end of August 2018, Cal Fire alone spent $432 million on operations. The Mendocino Complex Fire burned more than 459,000 acres, becoming the largest complex fire in the state's history, with the complex's Ranch Fire surpassing the Thomas Fire and the Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889 to become California's single-largest recorded wildfire.

California wildfires 2018

https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires-2018/

As wildfires rage, Trump attacks California

President Trump also weighed in over the weekend on the California wildfires, claiming 'poor' forest management was in part to blame for the massive fires…

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch … 8130627550

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-b … ts-2018-11

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#2 2018-11-12 17:39:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

The winds are about to shift direction which will complicate the fighting these wild fires.
death tolls are increasing

UJ74IHXEJII6RORQU7PNATMPVQ.jpg

In northern California, where the catastrophic Camp Fire became the state’s most destructive blaze on record, conditions conducive to fires are easing. The National Weather Service reports it’s still bone-dry, but winds have begun to relax, and by Tuesday, the fire risk is expected to return to normal.

gettyimages-1066254358.jpg#

In Southern California, where the Woolsey Fire has charred nearly 92,000 acres, the Weather Service describes a “very volatile environment favorable for rapid fire spread/growth” through Tuesday. In some areas, the relative humidity percentages are expected to dip into the single digits while winds roar down the mountain slopes at 30 to 40 mph, gusting even higher.

Weather menacing for crews battling deadly California wildfires

california-wildfires-ap-18315830165799.jpg#

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#3 2018-11-12 20:01:11

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,357

Re: California Wildfires

How much would it cost to have a permanent fleet of automated drones flying over the vulnerable areas of California with temperature sensors and fire extinguishers? They could also automatically call in serious firefighting craft.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#4 2018-11-12 20:38:40

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Many fire extinguishers have a range of between 8 and 12 feet (2.4 to 3.7 m). Before discharging the extinguisher, move toward or away from the fire so you're standing 6 to 8 feet (1.8 to 2.4 m) (1.8 to 2.4 m) away. You can move closer once you start dousing the fire and the flames die down. So ya no ...that is why the drop fire retardent materials and water on the flames.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_retardant

th?id=A4bf62aa4352125c22ef1126fde6a7cda&w=192&h=149&c=8&rs=1&o=5&pid=3.1&rm=2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_firefighting

Spotter (Air Tactical Group Supervisor) aircraft often orbit the fire at a higher altitude to coordinate the efforts of the smoke jumper, helicopter, media, and retardant-dropping aircraft; while lead planes fly low-level ahead of the airtankers to mark the trajectory for the drop, and ensure overall safety for both ground-based and aerial firefighters.

All states get large fires and UTAH FIREFIGHTER KILLED BY FIRE-RETARDANT AIR DROP

A Utah firefighter battling the largest wildfire in California history was killed last month when thousands of gallons of flame-suppressing liquid were dropped from a Boeing 747 mistakenly flying only 100 feet (30 meters) above the treetops, according to an official report Friday.

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#5 2018-11-13 05:10:38

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,170
Website

Re: California Wildfires

It helps a lot if you don't build your cities in wildfire prone areas. Suburban houses surrounded by dry grass and oily trees are... unwise.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#6 2018-11-13 20:07:12

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

That would seem to be the entire californian state Terraformer....

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#7 2018-11-14 18:25:10

JoshNH4H
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From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,526
Website

Re: California Wildfires

I don't think I ever understood wildfires living back on the East Coast. 

I think I understand them a little better now.

I live in Washington, between the Cascades and the Rockies.  These are some tall mountains, so tall in fact that they dominate the weather in this portion of the country.  The rain shadow from the Rockies goes as far East as the Mississippi river in some places.  Despite Western Washington's reputation for rainy weather, Central Washington is a dry desert.  It didn't rain at all from June to October.  Big portions of Western states are protected parks or forests.  When they dry out, they burn.  There was a solid week when the sky turned a gray-orange Martian color and the air smelled like ash, and there wasn't even a big fire within 100 miles of me.

Washington is not known for its fires because they're worse both to the South and the East.  In total, the US has about 1,000,000 square kilometers of protected federal land (IE National Park + National Forests).  Much of this is in fire-prone areas of the West.  There's also a smaller amount of state land and lots of open grassland, which I believe can burn at times.  Canada has even more, I believe, and fires don't stop at international borders.  Neither does the smoke and ash they generate.

1,000,000 km^2 is 4 times the area of the entire United Kingdom, and most of this land is very sparsely populated, which is why fires so rarely cause human casualties.


-Josh

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#8 2018-11-14 18:37:46

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

The deadth toll is what is troubling in that there was less time to evacuate for many and many drove through the fire to escape it.
There are a few that are calling its situation one that is being seen as a global warming action.

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#9 2018-11-18 20:38:08

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Trump went to see the devastation and as usual stuck his foot in his mouth.. saying that Norway rakes leaves.....

Trump 'needs to listen to the experts because clearly he isn't one of them:' California Rep. on wildfires

wildfires-1-ap-er-181115_hpMain_4x3_992.jpg

The rains are coming and they will be met with thanks and prayers.

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#10 2018-11-19 14:56:19

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Northern California wildfire where the rain could help and hurt the battle for control. With a total missing of a 1,000 plus and confirmed dead 77. The fires are devastating to all that it touches.

Forestry management is a state, County and city township issue where a selective cutting not just clear cutting of patches for materials are done with yearly management cutting of other areas to control under growth from causing such issues. The sale of the materials offsets taxation and make a funding revenue stream for the forestry department.

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#11 2018-11-20 20:02:15

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Forecasted rain threatens wildfire recovery in Northern California

Officials battling the largest wildfire in California history say the rain forecast to arrive this week may complicate search and recovery efforts. Heavy rain expected this week could snuff out the risk of new wildfires for the rest of the year. But flash flooding, mudslides and rivers of debris could hit cities already devastated by flames.

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#12 2018-11-21 21:57:31

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

A story of children that made it out School bus driver hailed a hero after delivering 22 students from raging California Camp Fire

The big issue facing the people of the wild fires is 'Where's everybody going to go?' Survivors of California's Camp Fire struggle to find housing

FEMA has given out $4.95 million in housing assistance so far in Butte County, but many fire survivors are still scrambling for a place to live.

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#13 2018-11-22 12:16:34

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Thankful they are not dead but are now as the Fire and Rain: California Storm Brings Relief to Some, Misery to Others Wednesday afternoon, the storm had already cleared the air of smoke that had closed many schools.

Making due with what they either have or can afford for now:
BBPXYpp.img?h=533&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1509&y=1068

“I’ve had mice in my tent, spiders, it’s freezing at night and now this rain,”

California summers are almost always dry, but the rainy season begins in October and by this time of year, Mr. Rasch said, Northern California should have received around 10 percent of its precipitation.

“We had dry winds and low humidities — and it extended that dry period,” Mr. Rasch said. It also created ideal fire conditions. Driven by extreme winds, the Camp Fire swept through the town of Paradise on Nov. 8, burning more than 153,000 acres and destroying more than 13,500 homes. The death toll, already at 83, is likely to rise, and 563 people are still missing. The fire is now about 85 percent contained.

Years of drought have parched California’s forests, killing more than 100 million trees this decade. Although a wet winter two years ago helped fill the state’s reservoirs, most of California is classified as being in a “moderate drought.”

What FEMA Is Doing, and Not Doing, in Response to California’s Fires

Shelter and food but this will not last....

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#14 2018-12-01 19:43:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Repost:

tahanson43206 wrote:
louis wrote:

I think in terms of Mars, it's:

Your post does make me think for the early Mars Missions we need to think in terms of a buried emergency supply point some distance from the base with oxygen, food, an emergency battery and emergency shelter.

Louis,

Your earlier post in this topic came up when I was looking for "emergency shelter".  There were a number of citations in several topics.

My question is:

Can planning for emergency shelter on Mars lend itself to similar planning for Earth.

For example, is it possible to design an emergency home shelter for use in California and other Western US states, where wild fires can and do consume almost everything above ground?

The environment in a forest fire has some overlap with or similarity to that of Mars, in that the atmosphere is not appropriate for breathing in an emergency.

As usual, I am looking for the business opportunities which may arise from a need for emergency shelter, both on Mars and on Earth (or other locations).

(th)

Thats sort of a great question for earth fires.

Many a story of near dead when the fire over road the area a person was in had a deep water pool to protect the individual and animal alike. The issue of air quality can only be solve with preplanned air sources stored. Just not sure how much air supply you would really require. Of course that was the purpose of the old root cellars near a home that had just the door to enter in. Which would be stocked with all of what you would need to wait a fire underground.

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#15 2018-12-02 21:06:18

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Posting replay in Buy america topic where it really belongs.

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#16 2018-12-02 22:21:31

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Where we have had fires we are also seeing water loss..

water-loss-in-global-landlocked-regions-hg.jpg

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#17 2019-06-08 19:05:01

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Of course West Coast braces for heat wave, raising fears of wildfires in Northern California

I believe that last years wild fires were also continued in part by electrical systems not being shutdown.... PG&E shuts power to lower wildfire risks in Northern California:

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#18 2019-10-11 17:43:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

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#19 2019-10-12 17:27:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

tahanson43206, I too have family in a step brother that lives in that area of california...
The fires are still spreading Fast-spreading wildfire prompts evacuations in Southern California

California experienced the deadliest and most destructive wildfires in its history in 2017 and 2018. Fueled by drought, an unprecedented buildup of dry vegetation and extreme winds, the size and intensity of these wildfires caused the loss of more than 100 lives, destroyed thousands of homes and exposed millions of urban and rural Californians to unhealthy air.

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#20 2019-10-27 12:58:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Calif. wildfire explodes, burning properties; more areas evacuated Winds top a stunning 93 mph in Calif. fire zone, causing havoc

AAJqE5M.img?h=194&w=300&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=t&l=f

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#21 2019-10-29 14:35:15

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,862
Website

Re: California Wildfires

I'm a technology nerd. I came up with ideas for a fireproof house.

  • concrete exterior wall from basement footing to roof, using ICF (Insulating Concrete Forms)

  • ICF made of silicone resin foam instead of Styrofoam. Because silicone is non-flammable. That's similar to silicone rubber, the same stuff as silicone oven mitts, but more firm. Could be reinforced with glass fibres

  • non-flammable siding: brick, stucco, field stone, limestone, fibre cement, stone veneer, metal. Definitely *NOT* polyurethane.

  • silicone rubber bladder between ICF and siding. Yes, this requires siding that can stand on it's own. Brick can do that. If you choose siding that requires backing, do *NOT* use plywood or OSB, nothing flammable. You could use cement board.

  • non-flammable roofing: steel, clay tiles, concrete tiles, slate, fibre cement

  • interior walls made with galvanized steel wall studs (used for an office building)

  • if any further insulation is needed, such as between ICF and drywall, use rockwool such as Comfortbatt by Roxul

  • use drywall with fibreglass felt facing, not paper. Such as that by Georgia Pacific. And "mud" seams with real plaster, not polymer compound. Use fibreglass tape, not paper tape.

The idea is when fire burns next to your house, water in the bladder boils, ensuring the insulated wall of your house never gets above the temperature of boiling water. And thermal insulation ensures even that takes time to get into your house. The house interior should remain livable until the trees or other flammable material outside your house are consumed/gone. So yes, a water wall surrounding your house.

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#22 2019-10-29 16:12:24

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

The list of what would be put into new building regulations is what happens to flood and tornado as well as huricaneeffected zones. Most can not afford the rebuild costs to the new regulations and just restore what they had. The second part of rebuild after a devistating total wipe out of all buildings in an area means the insurance companies fail and can not pay even for the level of restoration of what you had minus deductible.
I agee that the list is a good first step but at what comparible construction costs?

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#23 2019-10-29 16:43:38

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,862
Website

Re: California Wildfires

If you can afford this, you can afford descent protection to ensure it doesn't burn down. And yes, I am talking about homes that require total rebuild.
OCR-L-CORELOGIC-DEC-0131-02-kjs-1.jpg?w=525

To rebut someone who continues to say "but but but...", I would like to point out my home was built in 1907, is two story (technically 1 and 3/4 story), with 342 square feet per floor measured from the outside of the stucco. That's 684 square feet total. Part basement: large enough for the furnace, water heater, full size washer and dryer, and I can turn around. There's a dirt floor crawl space under the rest of the house. My house has one normal size bedroom, and one small bedroom. I once had someone stay in the small room, he put a king size bed in there; jammed into one corner, you couldn't open the closet door on the other side of the bed. I use the small bedroom as a home office. One bathroom: toilet, small vanity, bathtub with glass shower door. The tub is tucked under the 45° ceiling, so the shower surround is plastic panels, including the 45° ceiling. Single detached garage: 10'x20'. Lot is 25' wide by 107' deep, with a back lane. My house has stucco on all 4 sides.

So if you can afford something like the picture, then you can afford upgrades to ensure it doesn't burn down.

Ps. The image looks like houses already have stucco and clay tile roofs.

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#24 2019-10-29 17:42:24

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,862
Website

Re: California Wildfires

Prices: Lowe's in Santa Rosa, CA; near the fire.

Drywall: 1/2" x 4' x 8', "Gold Bond" brand. $10.98 per sheet, buy 35 get 15% off
3/8" x 4' x 8', "ToughRock" brand by Georgia-Pacific. $12.58 per sheet, buy 48 get 15% off

studs: 2x4 (actual size 1.5" x 3.5" x 8') Douglas Fir wood. $2.38 each.
3.625" x 1.25" x 8', "D ProSTUD" galvanized steel. $6.17 each, buy 70 get 17.5% off.

Insulation: Johns Manville R-30 Fiberglass Batt Insulation with Sound Barrier (24-in W x 48-in L) unfaced, 11 pieces/package. R 2.9268 per inch. $88.77
ROCKWOOL COMFORTBATT R-30 Stone Wool Batt Insulation with Sound Barrier (23-in W x 47-in L) unfaced, 4 pieces/package. R 4.2 per inch. $62.92

Plaster: ProForm 47-lb Premixed All-purpose Drywall Joint Compound, $9.84
USG 50.5-lb bag, Foundation plaster, $16.73

I list the large size of plaster since this would be to rebuild an entire house.
I'm a little surprised at the difference in cost for studs. Rona in this city charges the same price for wood vs steel studs. But this really doesn't look like a big cost difference.

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#25 2019-10-29 19:03:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: California Wildfires

Thanks for the thoughts and details...
This is the sort of thing that can be put together for quick fab installations on site. If nothing else it should be put together with detailed plans that meet the codes of the area and published as a means to make an income from all of the thoughts.
It would make a good base article concept for the mother earth magazine...

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