New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#26 2018-01-03 19:54:03

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,001
Website

Re: The state of US Education

I submitted two policy documents. Not to the party policy process, that's useless. I submitted my finance document directly to the federal Finance Minister of Canada, with a note directly to the Prime Minister. They advertised strongly on Facebook that they want input to the 2018 federal budget, Ok, so I game them my input.

The second document was to the provincial Education Minister. Not my party, but although my party is currently the federal government of Canada, they haven't been in office for this province since the 1950s. But I didn't mention my party affiliation, just criticized the opposite party to the one currently in power provincially. Since the current government likes to brag about being good at business, and good at cutting costs, I emphasized that it cuts cost by better managing the education system. And mentioned I used to be an instructor at the largest local community college. That should help get credibility for an education policy.

We'll see if anything happens with either.

Offline

#27 2018-01-03 20:04:34

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

Was watching my towns public broadcast of the budget meeting, to which they were reviewing the coming school year budget and a note to the schools panel was to come up with a 10 year plan to which they should learn why the cost of educating the towns children have continued to sky rocket and are causing the towns population to leave it which continues to drive up the taxes on the property you own....

Offline

#28 2018-01-06 00:43:16

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,001
Website

Re: The state of US Education

kbd512 wrote:

You still haven't learned how this "golden rule" thing works, have you?  He who has the gold makes the rules.
...
You may think it's your money, the tax collectors may think it's their money, but the rich don't give a damn what you think and they have enough money to buy off, coerce, imprison, or kill anyone who disagrees.  Anyone who believes the rich don't think that way has another thing coming.  Life at the top engenders a degree of ruthlessness you clearly don't understand.

You think the rich can threaten or kill the IRS? Try it. They can call the US military if necessary. You think a rich guy can out-do the military?

But you just contradicted yourself. You said "the rich...have enough money to buy off...anyone who disagrees". That's what I said. Tax money doesn't matter. Tax collectors really do think it's their money. But campaign donations or other bribes are are everything. That's what corrupted the US government.

kbd512 wrote:

If you want to demonstrate how much you care about poor people, then figure out how to employ them in better paying jobs.  Handouts don't work.  If they did, then we wouldn't have so many poor people, would we?

I have suggested that. Canada has higher literacy rate than the US. When I lived in Virginia and Miami, I read newspaper articles and heard people go on and on about how bad the public school system is. But I also heard that at least in Virginia, money per student in core areas was the same as wealthy suburbs. Why? I don't have an answer. Canada's public school system isn't better than an American middle-class or wealthy suburb. The difference is that Canadian core area schools may not be as good as those in wealthy neighbourhoods, but the difference isn't nearly as great as in the US. Why? Better education means better jobs. I ran into people from poor neighbourhoods who complained that school was "mind control", and hated school. But it isn't. Or isn't supposed to be. School is there to provide you with skills and knowledge to get a good job.

I have submitted my ideas for post-secondary education reform to the provincial Minister of Education. When I was a university student starting second year in the fall of 1981, I complained to one professor that first year was a waste of time and tuition money. University entrance high school science covered all of first year university science and some of second year. Turned out that professor took my complaint to heart. He raised the idea of coordinating curriculum with high school so we could skip first year entirely. He brought the idea to university senate. However, administrators treated first year students as cash cows, so instead formalized first year. A little over a decade later, some high schools adopted Advanced Placement, others International Baccalaureate, still others cobbled something directly between that high school and local universities. Then during the 1999 provincial election, I wrote a formal document to the Minister of Education. They proceeded with their plan, not even reading mine. But voters were outraged, they had to back off. They had to do something different, so that's when they read my document. I had been an instructor at the largest local community college, so that gave me some credibility. The Minister started to implement my whole plan. But since it meant reducing tuition in a practical way, and it meant the largest university in the province would no longer have a monopoly on certain degrees, administration for that one university hated it. They got it all killed. Now the other major party is in power in this province, I sent my document to the new Minister. Let's see if he does it. If you want, I could post a copy here. You could convince American high schools and universities to do it.

I have also posted several ideas to reduce American government spending. Reduce spending, eliminate the deficit, reduce the debt, that will reduce debt service charges (interest). Doing that will allow government to reduce taxes without cutting services. Why waste tax dollars on interest to banks? Canada did it in the mid-1990s. The first few years the cuts hurt. People complained, but then the economy responded. People love having a good paying job. Eventually government spending on certain crucial programs could be restored. But every time I do suggest this, you argue against everything I say.

Offline

#29 2018-01-08 12:36:19

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,001
Website

Re: The state of US Education

kbd512 wrote:
RobertDyck wrote:

I have submitted my ideas for post-secondary education reform to the provincial Minister of Education.

If you still have it, then I'd like to see it.

Here it is: Education 2018

Offline

#30 2018-03-20 13:09:46

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,496

Re: The state of US Education

SpaceNut,

It's certainly nothing I'd ever consider doing to myself, but I wouldn't lift a finger to stop someone else from doing it to themselves, either.  What I will not tolerate is someone else demanding that I pay for their lifestyle choices.  That goes equally for individuals and corporations.  If there is not some well defined requirement, then I really do want the government out of everyone else's personal lives.  They have enough of their own problems to resolve prior to ever concerning themselves with micromanaging our lives.

Government is force, period.  Force should only be used when there's an overwhelming need to undertake some sort of governance activity at the business end of a gun.  There are very few activities that fall under that category.  We need enforced behavioral rules, better known as laws, for society to function at all.  We need a military that defends everyone else by defending us from the jackals of this world.  We need a taxation system to maintain and build public use infrastructure, everything from basic education to research to improve life for everyone in our society and throughout the world.  That's about it.

Our system of government was never intended to be a cradle-to-grave solution to all of life's problems and The Founders warned us of the results of trying to turn our government into such a system.  People need to be permitted to make mistakes and learn from their failures.  That's part of growing up.  Outcomes are never guaranteed under any system of governance, no matter how well-intentioned nor how well devised.  A system that permits failure is inevitably the best teacher, even if it's not the best for some of those who fail.

Ultimately, I take a rather simple approach to this.  I don't pretend to know how anyone else should live their life and I won't tolerate anyone else telling me how to live mine, so it's best for everyone involved if we stay out of each other's personal lives, unless there is some overwhelming societal need to intervene.  In the majority of cases, there simply isn't such a need.  Beliefs about that will vary from person to person, but nearly to a person you'll not find many people who want someone else dictating to them how they should live their lives.

Offline

#31 2018-04-18 18:06:36

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,496

Re: The state of US Education

SpaceNut,

Citizenship may or may not be a strange animal, but our politicians have unscrupulously used it as a political issue instead of the moral and economic issue that it truly is.  We need people to come here who have a skill, trade, and/or education that they can immediately use to their own benefit to support their families and to become net additions to the local and national economies instead of net losses.  Bringing in people who have no ability or intention (doesn't matter which it is if the result is the same) of learning the language and culture, thus leading productive lives, is not useful to America or them.

It's not moral or ethical to bring uneducated people from foreign countries who live in abject poverty, only to drop them into a culture that requires lots of money and more sophisticated knowledge / indoctrination / education in order to successfully join with the rest of the society and not be at a severe disadvantage in comparison to the native population.

Example 1:

I bring a Spanish speaker from Mexico who doesn't speak a word of English, his education is limited to a few years of grammar school, and now he has to find a job and a place to live in a society that requires literacy, understanding of how to use computers and cell phones just to purchase products to use or pay bills, and he has no money.

Example 2:

I bring a Spanish speaker from Mexico who understands enough English to get by, he has a high school education, has used a computer or cell phone in school or for business purposes, and he's a skilled carpenter.  He doesn't have much money, but he's employable in a trade that needs skilled workers and therefore his prospects for economic prosperity in this strange new land called America look much better for him and his family.

I don't give a damn about importing people from foreign countries or what they look like so long as they share our cultural values, learn the language, the laws, and have the capability to support themselves once we bring them here or if they come here of their own choice.  Diversity for diversity's sake is not necessarily a good thing.  If we bring people here who believe it's acceptable to murder or steal to get what they want, then that sort of diversity does nothing useful for us and could even be viewed as harmful to us by people who are not ideologically motivated to have their diversity at any price.

Offline

#32 2018-09-15 11:19:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

Coruption removal or just plain dumbing down our education... Texas State Board of Education votes to erase Hillary Clinton from history curriculum was made by [Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills] work groups.

volunteer work group was tasked with creating a rubric for grading historical figures to deem who was "essential" to learn about and who wasn't. Clinton reportedly scored a five on the 20-point grading rubric, and Keller scored a seven. The State Board of Education in Texas voted on Friday to eliminate several historical figures, including Hillary Clinton and Helen Keller, from the state's social studies curriculum.

Well if its essentail knowledge needed to be able to work we can keep going for many of the jobs we have....

Offline

#33 2018-09-15 12:03:17

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,287
Website

Re: The state of US Education

Do Texas students learn about every single Secretary of State? Or even every President, beyond what their name was and when they served?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Online

#34 2018-09-15 18:00:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

That is usually a high school class containing US history of sorts not the American history or revolutionary era details.
But it would seem that none of that matters to some as Taco Bell employee fired for refusing to serve English-speaking customer
Should have tried harder to learn English as it cost you Florida Taco Bell employee fired after refusing to serve customer who wouldn't speak Spanish

Offline

#35 2018-09-16 02:40:00

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,287
Website

Re: The state of US Education

Why were they hired in the first place, if they can't speak English?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Online

#36 2018-09-16 09:39:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

https://www.census.gov/topics/populatio … e-use.html

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article … ed-states/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … population

US indicated as   80–100% must be inflated...

The issue of America and english language is Limited English Proficient (LEP) and while you could fill out an application it could have also been in the alternative language since we do not enforce english and make just about everything in multiple languages.

Offline

#37 2018-09-16 11:09:03

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,997
Website

Re: The state of US Education

Why is Spanish important in the US?  Because about 40% of the territory now part of the lower 48 was formerly Mexico,  until 1848,  not so very long ago.  Local culture and ways of doing things came from Mexico,  not Anglo sources.  They got mistreated while being absorbed,  but they really are still there,  propaganda from the white supremacists notwithstanding.  Which means cross-border ties with related culture in modern Mexico is still quite strong. 

I see the Texas State Board of Education is one issue or offender being discussed here.  White supremacists and similar have been appointed to that board under one-party rule by right wingers for a long time now.  Among other things,  they have attempted time and again to rewrite the story of the Alamo and the Texas war for independence. 

The main thing they want to suppress is the knowledge that many Texas heroes fighting for independence were of Hispanic origin,  not Anglo. The war started initially to resist Santa Anna the recent dictator,  not to secede from Mexico. It morphed into independence later.   The flag that flew over the Alamo was a modified Mexican flag with the Eagle and Cactus replaced by the date 1824,  referring to the Mexican constitution of that date,  which Santa Anna overthrew.

In my time,  we were actually taught some of these things in the public schools,  because the far right had not yet risen to power and packed the state board with its minions.  Again,  I really DESPISE one-party rule!!!  The first thing to fail is unbiased education,  leading to a dumbing-down of the population (because stupid people are easier to subjugate).  Same path Germany followed becoming Nazi. And the others I mentioned.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#38 2018-09-16 15:26:12

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,496

Re: The state of US Education

GW,

Is anything to the right of a belief in the supremacy of the proletariat "white supremacy"?

Is education where you live really that different from what it is here in Houston?

You'd be hard pressed to find teachers here in Houston who aren't registered Democrat voters.  The idea that they're engaged in teaching white supremacy to their students strains credulity.  The only concerted effort to rewrite history comes from our not-so-friendly socialists.  The handful of nazis or kkk groups / members that still exist these days control virtually nothing, which is a good thing, and are about as involved in education as bankers are involved in feeding poor people.  The fact that you can merely find a white supremacist somewhere doesn't mean it's a normative belief.

When I learned Texas history, both from my father and in school, one could not help but notice all the Spanish names of the people who fought for Texas Independence from Mexico and all the contributions of people who formerly called Mexico or Spain home.  If that simple fact has recently been removed from Texas history, then that's news to me.

In California, the regressive far left (sadly, what used to be the Democrat Party before the regressive socialist extremists drove them out) have a super majority in government, the judiciary, and education.  The notion that the ideology doesn't permeate is absurd.  You have to pick which is worse since both political parties in modern America have attempted to eliminate their opposition.  Thus far, a good number of Californians are voting with their feet and moving to Texas.  The opposite is not true.  I have to wonder why they'd come to a place they believe is full of hateful right wing regressives unless that is simply not true.  Maybe they've come to realize that's just the brain droppings fed to them by left wing regressives.

I'm sure we can find some swastika waving goose steppers in former President Obama's home state, but the idea that those people in any way represent the general beliefs held by the people who live there is an absurdity.  That same type of belief, projected onto people who live in the southern states, is an equal absurdity two decades into 21st century America.  Schools in the southern states were integrated in the 1950's.  I went to school in the 1980's.  Nobody from my generation even knew what a segregated school was.  The only way in which we knew anything of the practice of segregation or racism in society was because we were taught about it in school or by our parents.

I think Morgan Freeman was right when he said that the best way to eliminate any remaining racism in America is to stop talking about it and stop pretending that racist ideology has any further power over our society.  I, for one, would like to leave that part of our history in the past.  What is equally important is that we not try to erase or otherwise ignore our history, lest we forget the lessons of our past.

Offline

#39 2018-09-16 16:13:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

This is why the US is having all of its troubles with a border that really is just a line in the sand.

Scrubbing the heritage from those that where here before the 1850's will not change how these and others feel about what nations they were or are part of only time will do that.

It is up to the people that live there to demand from those that keep going over that imaginary line to go back and do it the right way.

As much as we can try to say, once you do cross over the border legally; you are american and must adapt. That does not mean throw away your culture only that one needs to have that as a second part of your life and not the primary anymore or just go home.

This goes for little tokyo, china or any others that have come here as you did not come here to be your nation that you are running from. You did make the choice to come and that is to be american, not american chinese, american japanese ect.....As much as I am french plus Indian from the past I am American english speaking and all that goes with that....

Offline

#40 2018-09-17 16:30:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

Teachers in my state have a board that tells them what they will teach from a required state level and the individual towns/ cities have boards that make sure that they are.

Offline

#41 2019-05-01 06:35:18

citizen0215
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2019-04-30
Posts: 1

Re: The state of US Education

The American education system is very weak for the most part. It is very well-funded but fails to produce results in most places. And it’s basically the fault of the liberal minded professionals who control the system.

First eliminate the teachings and philosophy of John Dewey from our education system and return to teaching the basics. Get rid of such ridiculous policies like “no tolerance” and punishing students for resisting aggression. Eliminate the NEA, the Department of Education, teacher certification programs, and state boards of education. Get rid of the overload of over-payed bureaucratic administrators. Return the curriculum and financing to the local level.

At the university level, make student loans and federal financing of education illegal, so it is no longer a fountain of money for bureaucratic administrators and tenured professor. Eliminate the financial exploitation of adjunct professors. Most tenured professors make from $10,000 to $30,000 per class with full benefits. Adjuncts are about $2,000 a class with no benefit.

I could go on but it would take a book to expound on the corruption and inefficiencies of our current system, so I have just mentioned a few things to consider. I know that those with a vested interest in our current system may be offended by what I have written here, so I encourage everyone to consider why I have posited such radical changes.

The main consideration should be results, not theory and philosophical approaches. Currently the expense is high and the results are meager.
To get Citizenship You start by getting a greencard permanent residency. That is the tough part. The four most common ways to get a greencard  Through an immediate family member who is either a citizen or has a greencard. Citizens can apply for a greencard for their married spouse, minor child or parent (no waiting period), or for their adult child or sibling (waiting periods apply). Greencard holders may apply for a greencard for their married spouse or their child (waiting periods apply).

Offline

#42 2019-05-01 08:57:21

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,892

Re: The state of US Education

For citizen0215 re #41

By any chance, are you persuadable to help the forum to start serious thought about designing an education system from scratch?

This forum is focused on Mars, so it will be valuable to have some groundwork laid for a few decades out, when population on Mars is great enough so that children are not a rarity.

However, the need for a well designed education system for application on Earth is immense.  There are billions of people already on this planet who would benefit from improvements in their education situation.  I'll start with the ones who are in refugee status, all over the planet.

I note that your comments about tenured professors mirror those of Adam Smith, who I re-read recently.  He was complaining about compensation for professors 200 years ago, and (obviously) the arguments continue.

(th)

Offline

#43 2019-05-01 17:52:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

The federal side of the education system is not paying there far share for the requirements and when it come down to the state level requirements it also falls back on the property owner within the towns to pay for what is happening with in them.
The simple 3 R's are not going to cut it any more and with some college education needed you are just getting to costly for the benefit.
Then we have the college level crap that is just a money maker and not an educator be for the most part.

Offline

#44 2019-05-02 03:05:22

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,001
Website

Re: The state of US Education

In Canada, provincial governments have jurisdiction over education. The is no federal department of education. The federal government does grant some money to universities, and the federal government administers student loans, but all student loans must be repaid. Looking at the budget for my school division (K-12), provincial government contribution has increased, now they provide 64.8% of revenue. School tax provides 34.6%, other school divisions provide 0.1%, private organizations and individuals 0.244%, and "other sources" 0.216%. Rounded, which is why it adds up to 99.96%.

I have complained. I wanted to go to school when I was 4 years old. Now there is nursery school for 4-year-olds, but only in one school division in province. Ontario is the next neighbouring province, they have "junior kindergarten". I wanted to attend advanced learning in elementary school, but there was not such thing, and there still isn't today. When I lived in Toronto in the late 1980s, my step daughter was in Ontario's most advanced learning program. I have argued my province should have what Ontario had in the 1980s, but it still doesn't. When I was in grade 2 & 3, I learned the only thing available was to skip a grade, so I tried to study ahead. I was held back, teachers tried to prevent me from learning the next grade. I did learn some math in grades 4 & 6, but when I gave an answer a grade or two ahead of the class, it was marked wrong. They dropped my grades in an effort to prevent me from getting ahead of the class. For grade 6 they actually transferred me to remedial class. The remedial teacher was condescending, wanted to transfer me to a "special needs" school. My mother took me to students services to be tested. Since my school division didn't have one at that time, she took me to the school division office of the largest school division in the city. They found my IQ was 132 on average; I did poorly in English and arts, much better in STEM. For STEM my IQ was 155. The school division said I was "bored", so they transferred me back to regular classes.

In high school the only student allowed to even apply for Advanced Placement was the daughter of the chemistry teacher. Only available to a child of a teacher. In the 1990s my high school and several high schools in the province provided either Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB), but it was still treated as something only for elite students, and my schools no longer offer it. When I attended high school, physics taught 100% of first year university physics and some of 2nd year. That was "00" physics, university entrance track. We weren't even allowed in the same room as computers until grade 11, yet grade 12 computer science covered all of first year except computer hardware. I studied computer hardware with a fellow student; turned out we had studied all of 2nd year hardware class. Chemistry was a bit different, first year university chemistry was based on university math. But grade 10 science taught absolutely nothing, it was a review of junior high while waiting for math to catch up. Back then set theory was taught in junior high math, so geometry and algebra was delayed. I was held back in math from grade 1, so I was frustrated. In the 1990s and today pre-calculus is taught in high school, and AP math teaches first year university calculus, statistics, and linear algebra. My point is first year university is a review of high school, so replace all "university entrance" high school courses with a local equivalent to AP. All students can skip first year university entirely. "Local equivalent" means no additional cost; treated as just a curriculum for grade school, paid through school tax as any other grade.

University only has classes 3 months per semester, with 2 semesters per year. That means 6 months of productive class time, the other half of the year is wasted. I argue to teach university from the first day in September when high school classes begin, until end of June. Schedule exams over 1 week instead of 2½, reduce Christmas vacation to 1 week instead of 2, and keep spring break. That will provide 3 semesters per year. Currently 2nd, 3rd & 4th year have 2 semesters per year for 6 semesters. Teaching 3 semesters per year will reduce that to 2 years. Combine that with AP high school, and you complete a 4-year bachelor degree in 2 years. This will not reduce class time per semester by a single day or a single minute. It will not reduce lab time, or time for assignments by a single minute. It only reduces vacation time. University professors will not get paid the same amount per year, administration and janitorial staff the same per year. Utility bills and other expenses for the building will be the same per year. So there's no excuse to increase total tuition per year. That means tuition per class will be cut by 1/3rd. With the same tuition per year, but 2 years instead of 4, that makes cuts total cost for a degree in half. This isn't hard on professors, because in order to get a full salary, professors currently teach 2 of intersession, summer day session, or summer evening session. Teaching a 3rd regular session instead of intersession means a professors work load isn't greater, just shifted. It does mean intersession will be gone, but most students who currently take the intersession will simply take summer day session instead. Will elimination of intersession affect university revenue? Maybe a little, but tough! Universities get too much money right now.

Offline

#45 2019-05-02 06:52:21

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,892

Re: The state of US Education

For SpaceNut #43 ... thank you for the reminder of difficulty of figuring out how to pay for education.

For RobertDyck #44 ... thank you for your comprehensive review of the Canadian provincial system, as you experienced and have observed it.

I have a perspective that (I now realize) is a bit unusual.  My first two grades were spent in a rural part of the state, where one room school houses were still in use. That school covered all grades from 1 through 8, and we had a population of 8 students, cared for and led by a single teacher.  My recollection of that experience is mostly positive.  The district created a consolidated school, so I learned soon enough about large classes.

Where I am headed with this is the possibility that with modern electronics, modern needs for worker skills, and perhaps other factors others on the forum may think of, it might make sense to return to the one room school concept. 

RobertDyck in particular, I am hoping your perspective will give you the ability to visualize how such a concept might work in practice.

SpaceNut ... since you have led with discussion of costs, please think about whether this concept might improve things in your State.

Because cost is such a consideration, I'm wondering if returning to small multi-year school populations in walk-to-school environments would allow for money to be shifted from buildings and buses to better or possibly even competitive pay for teachers, and a dramatic improvement in outcomes for students.

Certainly, as we look forward to Mars, such a concept seems likely to be attractive during early years, but even today, in every part of the planet, it might turn out that the concept would prove useful.

RobertDyck  .... I ran across reference to native schools in Alaska last year, and would imagine the situation in Canada might be similar ... The context was (as I remember it) the use of advanced technology (eg, 3D printers) to help Alaskan students to master the survival skills needed there, which are not required in lower latitudes.  It would not surprise me to learn that native schools follow a similar pattern to what I saw, because consolidation is often not an option.

(th)

Offline

#46 2019-05-02 06:59:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,958

Re: The state of US Education

What I can speak to is My state NH, one that does not tax income and uses the lottery to subsides the education system in the state using an equation to spread the money out to the towns and cities there in. This is intended to relieve the costs faced by the poor proptery towns but many have seperated up the operating expense of education from the remaining government cost of the towns which plays to an us versus them confliction for the budget processes as the sum of both when added together looks out of balance to what we get for education versus what we have for other services.
.

Offline

#47 2019-05-02 08:58:06

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,892

Re: The state of US Education

For SpaceNut #46 ....

The wiki article at the link below shows a preserved one room school house in Maine.  By any chance, are any preserved in your state?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-room_school

Do you think the restoration of one room schools would help with outcomes in New Hampshire?  The wiki article above offers the observation that consolidated schools allowed grades to be placed in separate rooms.  What I am trying to visualize is how a "modern" electronic one-room school might meet the needs of individual students, without regard to how others are doing.  In this, I am trying to address the situation RobertDyck reported, in which individuals were required to progress at the same pace as the slowest students.

The ideal education environment is one pupil and one student, as demonstrated by Aristotle and Alexander the son of King Phillip II of Macedon.

http://mgbs.com/alexander-the-great-and … -aristotle

I don't think we need to memorize the poems of Homer today, but there is plenty of knowledge having stored in the brain is helpful.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-05-02 09:21:30)

Offline

#48 2019-05-04 07:33:07

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,892

Re: The state of US Education

For citizen0215 ....

I hope you are hard at work designing a better education system for the young people on Earth today ...

Here is someone who had decided to vote with his feet, after 20 years ...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teacher … 39592.html

I have proposed returning to small one-room-schools, augmented by use of the Internet to provide individualized education for youngsters from what in the US is called first grade through what is called eighth grade.

Your design may well be much better.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you recommend.

(th)

Offline

#49 2019-05-04 15:18:09

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,287
Website

Re: The state of US Education

For the most part, students up to the age of 12 should be receiving a good grounding in the basics. Humans max out learning at about three hours per day, so it would be better to cut hours down and use the extra teaching available to shrink class sizes. Three hours a day with one teacher and a class size of ten is eminently feasible, and would cost a lot less than is currently spent on education.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Online

#50 2019-05-04 16:31:43

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,892

Re: The state of US Education

For Terraformer re #49 ...

Thank you for your contribution to this topic!  Your observation about 3 hours per day of learning is one I had not heard before.  Could you (please) provide pointers to more reading/research about it?  I think the concept is quite interesting, depending upon what you are discussing!  My own view is that self directed discovery is more beneficial than formal presentation, but (on the other hand) well designed exposure to increasingly advanced concepts is the foundation upon which self-discovery can then build.

For some reason, you have chose not to reinforce the idea of using the Internet as a resource to assist with learning, but perhaps I have simply missed something in your post.

(th)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB