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#1 2016-09-24 22:20:49

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,862
Website

The state of US Education

Everyone has good times, everyone has bad ones. Many people encounter an ass-hole like the manager I described at New Flyer. That's what Social Security is for. It's insurance: you pay into it while employed, when you lose your job you draw from that to survive while looking for your next job. In Canada "Employment Insurance" and "Canada Pension Plan" are separate things, with separate premiums. That means if you have to apply for Employment Insurance benefits, which is an insurance claim, then it doesn't detract from your pension. In the case of New Flyer, I was unemployed so long that Employment Insurance benefits ran out. A friend from high school talked to his older brother, who hired me to work in his salvage yard. Their demolition business brought truck loads of material from demolished buildings. I was hired to pick through that rubble, remove intact boards, remove nails, then neatly pile the boards on a pallet. I was paid piece work, per pallet, which worked out to less than minimum wage. Do you know what it's like working before dawn outdoors in winter? January in Winnipeg, north of North Dakota? It's cold! But I had to do it to pay the mortgage and buy food. I've since paid off  my mortgage, but this was before. The nails tore up my winter jacket. I didn't accept welfare or groceries from a food bank. Canada doesn't have food stamps. Food banks are organized by private charities, they don't get government funding. But you claim the Employment Insurance I received is wrong, bad, evil?

Socialism is employment insurance. Socialism is labour unions. Socialism means education should be affordable. I'm not a left-winger, my views are more libertarian, but everything in moderation. Labour laws exist because of abuse by some employers. And when those employers use abuse for competitive advantage, employers who are ethical are pressured to duplicate unethical behaviour. It's contagious.

I gave you the story of the canal. Labour unions like to cite that as the beginning of unions in America. I believe unions have grown too powerful, cause more damage than they solve today. But when you read about stories like that canal, that's why unions exist.

I have argued for education reform. Education in Canada isn't as bad as America. Canadian public schools in low income areas are almost as good as well-to-do suburbs. Not quite, but almost. Canadian schools in suburbs are about the same as American schools in similar neighbourhoods, the difference is low income areas. At least from what I'm told, have read. Some people in my province have argued for nursery school. That's similar to kindergarten, but for 4-year-olds instead of 5-year-old. In the neighbouring province of Ontario, they call that junior kindergarten. Currently there's only one school division in my province that has nursery school. I've argued for advanced learning. When I lived in Toronto in 1989, my fiance had a daughter in advanced learning. That relationship didn't work out, but I was impressed how well the girl did in school. I have argued my province should have the same advanced learning program as Ontario had in 1989. I have also argued for a made-in-my-province version of Advanced Placement for highs school. There was nothing when I went to school. Starting in the 1990s, some schools have adopted the Advanced Placement program, which comes form a commercial corporation based in New Jersey. Other schools have adopted the International Baccalaureate program, which comes out of the education system of Switzerland. Other schools tried to cobble their own program together by working with universities directly. It's inconsistent, a mess. I want a province-wide AP program. I have also argued to convert at least one full university to a 10-month 3-semester calendar. That would be the same school year as high school, so students are already used to it. Currently 2nd 3rd & 4th year is taught as 2 semesters per year, with only 3 months of class time per semester. By teaching 3 semesters per year, those 6 semesters are completed in only 2 years. That would not reduce class time by even a minute, it would only reduce vacation time. Combine AP with the 10-month school year and you complete a bachelor degree in the time it currently takes to complete an associate degree. Complete a master degree in the time it currently takes to complete a bachelor. And there's no excuse to charge students more per year. Professors get paid the same salary per year, administration staff, janitorial staff. The cost for the building, utility bills, all the same per year. Charging students the same annual tuition, but completing a degree in 2 years instead of 4, it reduces the cost of a degree. This is just efficiently managing the education system. But bureaucrats want to protect their empire. And some people see the high cost of education as a way to ensure only students from rich families can get a degree. It's elitist and unfair.

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#2 2016-09-25 07:44:46

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: The state of US Education

I find that College Education is highly over-rated, it costs too much for what it gives you! Maybe the money we spend on College education would be better spent on healthcare. I've been to college, got an Economics and a Computer Science degree, and I couldn't find the jobs for them afterwards, and I still owe a lot of money for college and I'm 49 years old! I looked for work from 1995 when I graduated to 2001 when I gave up. My mother died in 1995, I inherited her Florist shop, an was able to keep it running till 2001 with the help of my uncle, the rent got too high, had to close. So I started work as a limousine driver, and it barely pays the bills. So I'm not terrible impressed with college education and what it gives you. The price of college is terribly inflated, I see classes full of 20 to 30 students going deeply into debt to pay some professor's salary, I don't know why that salary costs so much when you divide it up among all those students! Maybe the professor uses expensive chalk! The prices of those textbooks are absurd! There is a huge difference between the price of a regular hard cover book which may cost between $30 to $50 in the Nonfiction section and the price of a College Textbook which can cost upwards of $250 or more, same paper, same hardcover, as far as I could tell, they weren't encrusted with expensive gems and gold leaf! Why are we taking out these huge loans t pay for this college rip-off! I think that money could be better spent on health insurance, as I think saving a life is more important than giving one an expensive over-priced college degree! College could be a lot cheaper without subsidy from the state! What if we returned college loans to the free market? What if we allowed people to use bankruptcy to discharge their college loans just like their other loans and credit card balances? It would be harder to get a college loan then, the interest rates for people who could get them would be higher, an a lot of colleges would have to close their doors because of fewer students attending, or they could try lowering their tuition rates! I don't think colleges need to cost nearly as much as they do! I think a college should be run as a business without subsidy from the government. Teaching people in college shouldn't be any more expensive than teaching people in high school! I see the same textbooks, the same chalkboards, the same classrooms, and the same teachers. Sure they teach more advanced stuff, but I don't know why it should cost more! I think the colleges are ripping us off with the help of subsidized college loans made by the government! The government should get out of that business, return it to the banks, and the Colleges will be forced to reduce their tuition rates if they want to stay in business! Does that sound reasonable to you?

Also on the point of socialism, I distinguish a social safety net from socialism. Socialism attempts to replace capitalism. I figure we should budget a certain amount for that social safety net and stay within that budget, rather than bankrupt ourselves to pay for every social program we can imagine. My Economics degree didn't help me to get a job, but it did improve my understanding of economic relationships, my father was an Economist besides. Seems what professors teach is highly slanted towards the left. There is something called the multiplier effect for instance, it seeks to justify government spending as a driver of the economy, it states that when the government takes money out of your pocket and spends it there is a multiplier effect, the money paid to government workers gets spent in grocery stores that pay their workers and so on, but this is a sleight of hand, as you don't pay attention to the person who got his pocket picked by the government, there is a negative multiplier effect in that the money that gets taken out o the taxpayer's pocket does not get spent at the grocery store, the grocery store doesn't hire people and pay its employees salaries with that money the government took. The two multiplier effects cancel out and its simply a redistribution from a productive sector of the economy to he government sector. Too much government means less economic growth, as performance in the government sector is not determined by economic productivity as it is determined in the private sector, this slows down economic growth as we have seen over he past 8 years. It would be nice if I could get a job with all the stuff I know about economics, as it seems that the people running the government know so little, and they are messing up the economy big time!

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#3 2016-11-10 17:49:03

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

Posts moved:

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
kbd512 wrote:

What's strange about today, Terraformer?

It's Wednesday.  More importantly, SpaceX figured out what happened to their rocket, science is still moving technology forward, and the world did not end just because we elected our next President.  All election day nonsense aside, we're on the other side of it.  We won't have to hear about it for at least another three years, or so I hope.  My most fervent wish is that ALL of our politicians work together to move us forward as a country and that we can put aside our petty differences to accomplish something worthwhile.  We have a long list of problems to solve that's not getting any shorter.

On a more personal note, I hope everyone here can set aside political differences and re-focus on cracking this diamond hard problem of making humanity interplanetary and interstellar.

Probably he means something about the Media showing polls that said Trump would lose, and he wins instead. I'm not surprised.

kbd512 wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:

Probably he means something about the Media showing polls that said Trump would lose, and he wins instead. I'm not surprised.

By now everyone should realize that the entertainment media is so blatantly biased, for or against particular political ideologies, that their opinions and polling data aren't worth the paper it's printed on.

After the media expressed so much concern over Trump supporters starting a second civil war if Secretary Clinton was elected instead of President Elect Trump, there are a bunch of special snowflakes who feel entitled to use Secretary Clinton's loss in the general election as an excuse for rioting, destruction of private and public property, arson, and death threats against President Elect Trump and his supporters.  They've taken to their anti-social media accounts to let the world know how oppressed they are.  Apparently they've never taken the opportunity, with all the money that mommy and daddy waste trying to educate them, to travel to the Middle East, Africa, or a communist country to learn about what real oppression is like.

"You don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election. Push to change it. But don't break it. Don't break what our predecessors spent over two centuries building. That's not being faithful to what this country's about." - President Obama

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#4 2016-11-21 18:19:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

List of gators for the swamp:

Cabinet Watch

Here is our running list of possible candidates we've been hearing about so far. We'll continue to update it as the president-elect's team makes its choices final.

    Secretary of State: Rudy Giuliani, John Bolton, Nikki Haley, Bob Corker, Mitt Romney
    Attorney General: Giuliani, Jeff Sessions OFFERED
    Treasury: Steve Mnuchin, Jeb Hensarling
    Defense: Jim Talent, Tom Cotton
    Homeland: Michael McCaul, David Clarke
    Interior: Sarah Palin
    HHS: Ben Carson (adviser says he's declined)
    Education: Carson (adviser says he's declined), Michelle Rhee
    Commerce: Lew Eisenberg, Linda McMahon, Wilbur Ross
    Transportation: John Mica, Deb Fischer, Lou Barletta
    Agriculture: Rick Perry, Sid Miller
    CIA Director: Mike Pompeo OFFERED
    UN Ambassador: Richard Grenell
    National Security Adviser: Michael Flynn OFFERED
    RNC Chair: Ronna Romney McDaniel

I believe I heard Scott Brown was another visiting Trump....

Them there is his business holdings that need to be taken care of due to conflict of interest as the holdings are already being used for political favors.....

For those that want to know where to boycott here is the article http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politic … pp-n686716 ya they have an app for that .....

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#5 2016-12-12 11:07:34

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: The state of US Education

Okay, eliminate the Education Department, the EPA, The Department of Homeland Security, eliminate the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Eliminate the Department of Energy. We can survive without those Departments. The thing about these departments is they have counterparts in state governments. No need to duplicate the responsibilities of the States at the Federal level. What is not duplicated in the military, and the way you keep the peace is you don't give the Enemy any notion in his head that he can win if he starts a war! So we need a military that can totally destroy the Enemy, so he doesn't think he can tangle with us, that is how the peace is maintained!

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#6 2016-12-12 15:48:49

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,862
Website

Re: The state of US Education

Well, in Canada education is a provincial responsibility. We don't have a federal education department. I think Homeland Security has gone way too far. You could separate out border security and immigration, like they were before. In Canada housing and urban development is also provincial responsibility, we don't have a federal one. So I wouldn't have a problem with your country doing that. But the Department of Energy handles nuclear weapons. Atomic Energy Defense Activities have a budget of $19.001 billion for 2016, the rest is $5.34 billion. According to the budget poster, which gets its figures from the President's budget request.

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#7 2016-12-29 11:34:05

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,756
Website

Re: The state of US Education

"How can you confirm your prediction if Trump hasn't even been President yet?" -- Tom,  why would you ask this when I already wrote this? -- "and he hasn't yet been sworn in"   Your politics is so extreme it completely blinds you to what is on a written page right in front of you.  What I said predates the election,  much less the inauguration. 

My predictions were made during the campaign,  before the election.  I posted them on "exrocketman" months ago.  They have been coming true ever since then,  long before the election.  The bulk of the current chaos results from his undisciplined tweets,  which are (at best!!) factually-challenged,  in the majority of cases.  The second-largest source of chaos is his selective disbelief of factual information,  when it doesn't match his preferred beliefs or purposes.  All of this is well-documented,  and you cannot deny these facts.

The third source of chaos is his choices for many of his appointments.  His chief strategist is the at-best-charlatan who runs Breitbart News to cater to (and stir up) the racist,  neo-Nazi,  xenophobe crowd.  Chief White House strategist and counselor?  Really?  God help us!  Because his other White House counselor will not:  Kellyanne Conway,  who reminds me of no one so much as Joseph Goebbels in the way she twists and spins.

Such as a woman who never attended public schools,  never sent her kids to public schools,  and who never spent a single minute in front of a class at any level at all,  as the head of the Dept of Education.  Talk about completely unqualified!  The fact that we don't really need a Dept of Ed that has assumed police powers is beside the point.  This woman will not shut down that dept,  she will use it to force states to destroy public schools in favor of charter schools,  of which the majority operate without accountability for the tax dollars they get.  That non-accountability is also documented.

But the real chaos will come in the coming years,  as Wall Street bankers he appointed to the cabinet feather their own nests instead of improving the lot of his angry-left-behind voters,  in any significant way.  Doing something for them was nothing but a campaign lie to get their votes.  Just like it was with Clinton.

Mr. Trump has never been accountable for anything he ever did.  The 6 bankruptcies-of-record in which he stiffed all his creditors is proof enough of that.  In many ways,  even at age 70,  he is still a spoiled,  unruly child,  one never disciplined or made to behave. 

But even so,  like all incoming presidents (whether I voted for them or not),  I hope he succeeds.  He will need a lot of help.  I just hope he learns how to evaluate advice that runs counter to his preferred views.  That is his biggest shortcoming right now.

What I detect from you is that you are very defensive of supporting Trump when someone else criticizes him.  I see that in most of the people that I know,  who voted for him.  I suspect that deep down,  they know Trump was a poor choice to be president.  The defensiveness comes from having voted for him while knowing that.  It's called "cognitive dissonance". 

There,  did I surprise you by knowing that term and that bit of psychology,  in spite of having been a really heavy-duty engineer?

As for the choices facing us last November,  I think that rock-and-a-hard place situation was no accident,  due to the corruption that big money brings to politics and government.  Of all the Republican candidates in their primary,  Trump was the only candidate Clinton might realistically beat (and she did in the poplar vote).  Of all the Democrat candidates in their primary,  Clinton was the only one that Trump could realistically beat (and he did in the electoral college).  These tickets were arranged by the rich and powerful to create a diversion,  so that we the people wold not see how they mis-rule us for their own gain.  It's an old tactic,  known as "bread-and-circuses".

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2016-12-29 11:51:28)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#8 2017-01-09 18:02:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

Much like the legitamacy of electors did not seem to matter as precedural rules were not followed to stop the process, the democrats and republics alike that could contest the election needed a signed document of what they were contesting from both congress and senate to make the voice heard.
The procedual process for the cabinet, agencies and major positions are to follow key rules as well. Senate Confirmation Hearings: Everything to Know

Will Trump Have the Votes?

The GOP barely kept its majority in the Senate after this year's elections, and rejections of major appointments are rare. Republicans have 51 seats right now and will likely have 52 by January.
When Do Hearings Start?

Hearings are set to start this week. A nominee may not be confirmed, however, until after the president is sworn in on Jan. 20. The full list of scheduled hearings is posted below.

Schedule

    Attorney General: Jeff Sessions - Jan. 10-11, 9:30 a.m.
    Homeland Security: John Kelly - Jan. 10, 3:30 p.m.
    Secretary of State: Rex Tillerson – Jan. 11-12, 9 a.m., 10 a.m.
    CIA Director: Mike Pompeo – Jan. 11, 10 a.m.
    Secretary of Education: Betsy DeVos – Jan. 11, 10 a.m.
    Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao - Jan. 11, 10:15 a.m.
    Secretary of Commerce: Wilbur Ross - Jan. 12, 10 a.m.
    Secretary of Housing: Ben Carson, Jan. 12, 10 a.m.
    Secretary of Labor: Andy Puzder – Jan. 17 (tentative)
    U.N. Ambassador: Nikki Haley – Jan. 18 (tentative)

Now its time for the shoe to be on the other foot Chuck Schumer turns tables on Mitch McConnell on confirmation process

The request says that before the consideration of any time agreements for a confirmation vote, Democrats want the following to be complete for each nominee: FBI background checks, Office of Government Ethics office reviews, financial disclosure statements and committee questionnaires. They are also demanding that each nominee has had a hearing, each nominee is willing to engage in committee staff interviews, each nominee agrees to courtesy visits with lawmakers and each nominee has committed to cooperating with the top Democrat on the relevant committees on requests for transparency and information.

Schumer’s request comes a few days after the director of the Office of Government Ethics sent a letter to Senate Democrats Saturday in which he expressed concerns with Republicans ramming through the confirmation hearings for Mr. Trump’s nominees.

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#9 2017-01-12 12:44:49

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,756
Website

Re: The state of US Education

These controversies are just another part of the chaos that I predicted Trump would bring.  The evidence so far is that this chaos will continue past the inauguration and for however long he serves.  It is just in his nature to go defensive and grab at any straw to hit back against anything he perceives as a threat to his image as a winner. 

Trump is not a businessman,  he is a self promoter.  His own banks (who bailed him out instead of letting him go bankrupt,  as a means to more profit for themselves) say that about him.  He pays no taxes not because he is astute about tax law,  but because he hires people who are.  He stiffed everybody in 6 bankruptcies-of-record not because he is astute about abusing the bankruptcy laws that way,  but because he hired people who were. 

The self-promoter thing means he is liar,  and we already have seen that.  He is factually-challenged about nearly all issues,  and then lies egregiously to people about all things,  aided and baby-sat by that evilly-glib Kellyanne Conway,  his propaganda master.  He promised laid-off blue-collar factory workers he would help them,  and then stuffed his cabinet with the same greedy wall street bankers who have cost them their jobs by offshoring and automating everything.  Not to mention causing the Great Recession with their mortgage shenanigans.  Saving a few thousand jobs here and there by tweet-shaming is a drop in the bucket compared to the 50 million factory jobs his supporters need. 

He named a anti-vacciner to the health and human services position,  and has ordered an investigation into vaccine safety,  when all the science says the link between vaccines and autism is total bullshit.  The one and only paper that ever claimed such a link was long ago completely debunked and discredited,  and retracted.  All that does is demonstrate (1) how totally uneducated Trump is,  and (2) that he values political advantage very far above any sort of objective truth. 

There's more,  but why belabor the point?  The man is totally unfit to be president,  and will do this country a lot of damage.  While he is really a RINO,  the party that selected him will also prove its unfitness to govern,  because the various factions cannot agree,  and will try to out right-wing-extremist each other.  For the most part,  they value political advantage far above objective fact,  just as Trump does.  And that is very dangerous in lawmakers as well as presidents.

Time to start a new conspiracy theory in a tit-for-tat scenario.  Trump is the man who led the Obama-is-foreign-born conspiracy theory.  But Trump is quite evidently a Russian spy.  Look at his connections to the Russians.  They tried to help him win,  and among his investors are the Russian mafia who support Putin.  He wants to cozy up to Russia,  and destroy NATO,  he already said so. 

Go have fun with that!

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-01-12 12:52:50)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#10 2017-01-12 16:50:50

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,756
Website

Re: The state of US Education

Comey was forced to do what he did by the same group of rich giants who pay no taxes but own all the lawmakers and regulators.  Whether it really tipped the election,  who knows?  I think a far larger effect has been the dumbing-down of education the last 4 decades,  as ordered by those same rich giants.  Stupid people are easier to mislead and to dominate. 

After spending 20 years in aerospace defense development engineering of new products,  I was forced to seek other employment,  because the aerospace corporate elite refused to hire anyone over 45 after about 1985 or thereabouts.  3 of the subsequent 20 years I worked in various civil engineering specialties.  The rest I spent teaching,  and even doing R&D work at one school.  I taught at every level from 7th grade to gradate school,  in math,  physics,  and engineering. 

Having actually figured out how to teach totally unprepared and unmotivated kids algebra,  and having been extraordinarily successful at it,  I can tell you that standardized tests are complete bullshit,  not a measure of anything,  much less teacher "accountability",  whatever that really is. 

Too many agencies at the state and federal level have arrogated police powers to themselves,  which made the education system vulnerable to control by the monied elites,  via their excessive bribe money.  They demanded the dumbing down,  with all the totally-parasitic test writing industries,  and totally parasitic test-preparation industries that standardized testing has spawned.

In actuality,  what we did for over 150 years at the totally-local level was quite adequate.  Of a 185 day school year,  185 days were spent actually learning,  unlike the less-than-90-days now.  Principals had time to observe their teachers,  instead of filling out reams of bullshit paperwork for the state and feds.  Principals were accountable to their superintendents,  who had time to actually visit and inspect records,  instead of filling out reams of bullshit paperwork and searching for law firms to keep them out of trouble.  Superintendents were accountable to their school boards,  who actually had the time (and the knowledge) to evaluate how the system was working,  since they weren't under constant lawsuits from the state and the feds.  And school boards are accountable to the people who elect them.  Who the f**k needs state and federal agencies meddling in that?  True in both public and higher ed.

The ONLY useful purposes the state and feds can possibly serve are to set broad (not detailed!!!) standards for what should be taught in each course,  and at what levels of difficulty these skills should be mastered by students.  Uniform standards really are a good thing.  We already have that now.  States (not feds) should be requiring textbooks written to teach to those standards and levels,  and they already do,  except that the boards that do this are filled with political appointees instead of knowledgeable people.  THAT'S the mistake.  True in both public and higher ed,  but more egregiously miscarried in public ed. 

It doesn't take much money to teach kids very well.  Best way out of this is stop accepting money from state and feds,  and tell them to go shove their paperwork up their collective ass. If they don't back off,  well,  that's what the Second Amendment is really for.  Says so in the Federalist papers.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-01-12 16:53:11)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#11 2017-01-12 17:12:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

Main streaming the less capable into ordinary classrooms is as well a dumbing down of education as they require aids for the more sever cases and this leads to also slowing down what does get taught....
I do agree that standardized testing does not prove anything as most classes these days are learn and flush mode just for the taking of a test and little for making use of what is taught for you to make use of in life.

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#12 2017-01-13 06:47:35

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,149

Re: The state of US Education

My college lecturer daughter would love you, Dr Johnson. BS and paperwork and political meddling are not confined to the US.

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#13 2017-02-05 09:45:34

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

That makes us no better than the terrorist thinking as in an EYE for an EYE way of thinking.....
We are already changing parts of there culture as woman can drive in places, get education ect...
A wall is a Maginot line not just a border divider...when there are observatory posts along it.....

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#14 2017-02-23 13:38:53

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,120

Re: The state of US Education

SpaceNut wrote:

kbd512, What is in the "state and federal governments paid $113B in benefits to illegal immigrants" as there should be getting nothing for assistance if they are not in the process of becoming American...So after amenesty there should be a paper trail for those that are trying other wise send them packing....

SpaceNut,

We don't let people starve, we pay for education, and we don't sit and watch people die from health-related issues when there's something we can do about it.  That's not who we are, no matter what narrative you choose to believe.  Every state sets money aside to pay for people who can't pay for themselves.  Even with the money illegal immigrants earn, most fall solidly into the category of people who can't pay for themselves, as virtually none of them have health insurance.

I don't blame poor people for being poor, but I do blame governments colluding with corporations to facilitate institutionalized poverty.  It's not racism or xenophobia, it's just pure greed and nothing more complicated than that.  If you don't want to have an underclass of exploited people, then you enforce equality before the law for everyone in the land.  It is equally important to understand that equality of input does not ensure equality of output and all attempts to produce equal outcomes will fail as long as humans are involved.

I worked for a healthcare services company that provided reimbursements to hospitals across the country, from state and local governments, after my wife graduated from college in Austin and we moved to Houston for better job opportunities.  That is how I know with certainty that there is money set aside to pay for illegal immigrants, irrespective of any other documentation on the subject matter.

Those with health insurance and our tax payers pay for the health care provided to people who are not here legally or are otherwise unable to pay.  We do not turn people away from hospitals simply because they can't pay, don't have an ID card, or aren't here legally.  Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying or ignorant.  I spent two years in a business working with government entities whose activities were directly contrary to any such claim.  Hospitals do send patients to other hospitals (technically, not providing service, but you still get service at the other hospital) that have arrangements with the government for reimbursement.  Hospitals that do have the arrangement with the government will be taken to court by the government if they refuse to provide service.  In any emergency deemed life threatening, no hospital can refuse service.

SpaceNut wrote:

The trouble with "The Affordable Care Act costs $300B over the top of MEDICAID." is the insurance companies rules to not pay after you have paid there high premium and the Hospitals/ Doctor practices that are over charging even for simple care...

The entire problem with The Affordable Care Act is that they let the insurance companies dictate rates.  How was that ever expected to be anything but giving authority to the insurance companies to charge people more money?

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#15 2017-03-17 18:31:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

Trump's budget says hundreds of programs and agencies would be eliminated — with more than 50 in the Environmental Protection Agency. But his first budget proposal identified 62 specifically. The list:

Department of Agriculture

Water and Wastewater loan and grant program ($498 million): "Rural communities can be served by private sector financing or other federal investments in rural water infrastructure, such as the Environmental Protection Agency's State Revolving Funds," the budget says.

McGovern-Dole International Food for Education program ($202 million): Trump's budget says the program — a sort of Third World school lunch project — "lacks evidence that it is being effectively implemented to reduce food insecurity."

Department of Commerce

Economic Development Administration ($221 million): Obama's 2017 budget touted the agency as " the only federal government agency with a mission and programs focused exclusively on economic development." The Trump budget says it has "limited measurable impacts and duplicates other federal programs."

Minority Business Development Agency ($32 million): The White House says this minority business incubator program is "duplicative" of other programs in the Small Business Administration.

Department of Education

Supporting Effective Instruction State Grants program ($2.4 billion): The White House says the program is "poorly targeted and spread thinly across thousands of districts with scant evidence of impact."

21st Century Community Learning Centers program ($1.2 billion): The formula grants to states support before- and after-school and summer programs. "The programs lacks strong evidence of meeting its objectives, such as improving student achievement," the budget says.

Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant program ($732 million): This financial aid program, known as SEOG, help give up to $4,000 a year to college students based on financial need. The Trump administration says it's a "less well-targeted" program than Pell Grants.

Striving Readers Comprehensive Literacy Program ($190 million): The grants are targeted toward students with disabilities or limited English proficiency.

Teacher Quality Partnership ($43 million): A teacher training and recruitment grant program.

Impact Aid Support Payments for Federal Property ($67 million): Obama also proposed the elimination of this program, which reimburses schools for lost tax revenue from tax-exempt federal properties in their districts.

International Education programs ($7 million): This line item funds a variety of exchange programs, migrant schools and special education services abroad.

Department of Energy

Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy ($382 million): This alternative energy research program was established by Congress in 2007 with the goal of funding projects that the private sector would not.

Title 17 Innovative Technology Loan Guarantee Program: This loan fund finances projects that combat global warming.

Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Program: Helps finance fuel-efficient vehicle research. "The private sector is better positioned to finance disruptive energy research and development and to commercialize innovative technologies," the White House says.

Weatherization Assistance Program ($121 million): The program helps homeowners make their homes more energy efficient with grants of up to $6,500.

State Energy Program ($28.2 million): Gives grants to states to help them work on energy efficiency and anti-climate change programs.

Department of Health and Human Services

Health professions and nursing training programs ($403 million): Trump's budget says these programs "lack evidence that they significantly improve the nation's health workforce." Instead, Trump wants to provide scholarships and student loans in in exchange for service in areas with a nursing shortage.

Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program ($3.4 billion): LIHEAP helps the elderly and low-income people pay their heating and power bills.

Community Services Block Grants ($715 million): CSBG is an anti-poverty grant program that the White House says duplicates emergency food assistance and employment programs.

Department of Housing and Urban Development

Community Development Block Grant program ($3 billion): CDBG has been a bread-and-butter funding source for local communities for 42 years, totaling more than $150 billion in grants over its history. "The program is not well-targeted to the poorest populations and has not demonstrated results," Trump's budget says.

Section 4 Capacity Building for Community Development and Affordable Housing program ($35 million): The affordable housing program supports organizations like the Local Initiatives Support Corp., which the White House says should be privately funded.

Department of the Interior

Abandoned Mine Land grants ($160 million): The Trump administration wants to eliminate a discretionary grant program that it says overlaps with a $2.7 billion permanent fund.

National Heritage Areas ($20 million): These are state-and-federal partnerships to preserve natural, historic, scenic, and cultural resources.

National Wildlife Refuge fund ($13.2 million): This is a revenue-sharing fund that makes payments to counties where wildlife refuges are located from fees the Fish and Wildlife Service receives.

Department of Justice

State Criminal Alien Assistance Program ($210 million): Four states receive the bulk of the funding from this program, which reimburses states for the cost of incarcerating criminal immigrants.

Department of Labor

Senior Community Service Employment Program ($434 million): SCSEP is a job training program for low-income people 55 and older that the White House says is "ineffective."

Occupational Safety and Health Administration training grants ($11 million)
Department of State and U.S. Agency for International Development

The Global Climate Change Initiative ($1.3 billion) was an Obama administration proposal to support the Paris climate agreement. It includes the Green Climate Fund ($250 million), the Strategic Climate Fund ($60 million) and the Clean Technology Fund ($171 million).

Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance Fund ($70 million): The account allows the president to "provide humanitarian assistance for unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs worldwide," but Trump said the mission is best left to international and non-governmental relief organizations

The East-West Center ($16 million): Chartered by Congress as the Center for Cultural and Technical Interchange Between East and West, the Honolulu-based nonprofit has a mission of strengthening relations among Pacific Rim countries.

Department of Transportation

The Essential Air Service program ($175 million) provides federal subsidies for commercial air service at rural airports. EAS flights are not full and have high subsidy costs per passenger. Trump's budget says several of those airports are close to major airports, and that rural communities could be served by other modes of transportation.

Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery grants ($499 million): The Obama-era TIGER program funded multi-modal and multi-jurisdictional projects, but the White House wants to cut existing infrastructure spending in favor of his own $1 trillion infrastructure proposal.

Department of the Treasury

Community Development Financial Institutions grants ($210 million): Trump's budget says the 23-year-old program to support community banks and credit unions is obsolete.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Geographic watershed programs ($427 million) like the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative ($40 million) and the Chesapeake Bay Restoration Initiative ($14 million): The Trump budget would turn over responsibility for those efforts to state and regional governments.

Fifty other EPA programs ($347 million) including Energy Star, Targeted Airshed Grants, the Endocrine Disruptor Screening Program, and infrastructure assistance to Alaska Native Villages and the Mexico border.

National Aeronautics and Space Administration

Office of Education ($115 million), which the Trump budget says duplicates efforts by the agency's Science Mission Directorate.

Independent agencies and commissions

African Development Foundation ($26 million): An independent foreign aid agency focusing on economic development in Africa.

Appalachian Regional Commission ($119 million): A 52-year-old agency focused on economic growth in 420 counties.

Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board ($11 million): The agency was created by the Clean Air Act of 1990 and investigates chemical accidents.

Corporation for National and Community Service ($771 million): The agency is best known for its Americorps community service program.

Corporation for Public Broadcasting ($485 million): Supports public television and radio stations, including the PBS television network and, indirectly, National Public Radio.

Delta Regional Authority ($45 million): An economic development agency for the eight-state Mississippi Delta region.

Denali Commission ($14 million): A state and federal economic development agency for Alaska.

Institute of Museum and Library Services ($231 million): Provides money to the nation's 123,000 libraries and 35,000 museums.

Inter-American Foundation ($23 million): Promotes "citizen-led grassroots development" in Latin America and the Caribbean.

U.S. Trade and Development Agency ($66 million): Promotes U.S. exports in energy, transportation, and telecommunications.

Legal Services Corp. ($366 million): A 43-year-old congressionally chartered organization that helps provide free civil legal advice to poor people.

National Endowment for the Arts ($152 million): Encourages participation in the arts.

National Endowment for the Humanities ($155 million): Supports scholarship into literature and culture.

Neighborhood Reinvestment Corp. ($175 million): Better known as Neighborworks America, the organization supports local affordable housing programs.

Northern Border Regional Commission ($7 million): A regional economic development agency serving parts of Maine, New Hampshire, New York and Vermont.

Overseas Private Investment Corp.($63 million): Encourages U.S. private investment in the developing world.

U.S. Institute of Peace ($40 million): Government-run think tank focusing on conflict prevention.

U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness ($4 million): An independent agency coordinating the federal government's efforts to reduce homelessness.

Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars ($11 million): A program to provide scholarships and fellowships in social sciences and humanities.

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#16 2017-03-18 21:49:08

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whiteh … eprint.pdf

Ten of Trump's budget's cruelest cuts

Community Development Block Grant program to state and local governments, many of which use the money to fund services for poor seniors, including Meals on Wheels, a food assistance program

Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant, which provides financial assistance for poor college students

Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP) helps families afford heating and cooling costs. LIHEAP is an essential tool for preventing the occurrence of "heat or eat" situations where families must cut back on food to offset increased energy costs.

21st Century Community Learning Centers provide before and after school and summer programs for children in low-income communities.

Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) is not eliminated in Trump's budget, but is substantially reduced.

Community Services Block Grant (CSBG) provides a range of services in partnership with community-based organizations, include emergency food assistance through food banks.

Choice Neighborhoods takes a community-driven approach to the revitalization of neighborhoods with public housing.

Legal Services Corporation provides funding for legal aid groups to support the low-income households in civil cases, such as securing restraining orders for victims of domestic abuse and helping homeowners prevent foreclosure.

Trump voter who uses Meals on Wheels surprised by proposed cuts which delivers nearly a million meals a day to the sick and elderly.

“We can’t spend money on programs just because they sound good… to take the federal money and give it to the states and say, ‘Look we want to give you money for programs that don’t work,’” White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said.
“Excuse me?! I see these people waiting for their food to come every day. It works,” Bush said.
It works for 56-year-old Linda Preast, who signed up for the program two years ago after a stroke left her in a wheelchair.

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#17 2017-03-21 00:46:50

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,862
Website

Re: The state of US Education

Tom and kbd512: yes ever single president since WWII contributed to the debt. That doesn't make it Ok. Wednesday is Canadian federal government budget day. Right now I'm obsessed with the Canadian budget. Guess what? They're spending too much.

Yes, I said military spending has to be sustainable. The last year the US federal government had a balanced budget was year 2000. Every budget since has to be compared to that. The military and national security budget that year was $288 billion. Apply inflation from that year to today, you get $398 billion. I said you have to cut military spending to that. It would still leave you with 60% more than Russia plus China plus North Korea combined. Canada's military budget last year was CAD$19.7 billion. Canada's population is 35 million, the US has 324.7 million. The American equivalent based on population and exchange of the dollar would be $182 billion. So the US military budget I asked is still generous.

And I didn't say cut military spending alone. I pointed out the US budget for 2016 had a $427 billion deficit. So balancing the budget requires cutting $200 billion of domestic spending as well. Voters had great hopes for Barack Obama, but he spent the US into an even greater hole.

Education - I spoke with one woman who claimed West Virginia spent all their education money on football stadiums. She claims they don't intend to teach students, just keep them quiet until they're old enough to be sent into coal mines. I don't know if that's true. When I lived in Chester Virginia, in Chesterfield county outside Richmond, I read newspaper commentaries about education, and locals claimed inner city schools received the same funding per student as suburban schools. Yet inner city schools looked like a war zone. No answer why.

Housing - yea, your point is the "junk mortgage scam". You realize Congress demanded the banks find a creative way to fund the deficit, and this is what they came up with. Yes, I blame Congress. Banks aren't blameless, but they're a known evil. The source of the financial melt-down of 2008 is government deficit.

Military - you said "no one person should ever have authority to take our country to war". The Constitution of the United States says Congress has that authority. The President administers the war once declared, but only Congress can decide to go to war. This has been abused more time than I can count. Congress must defend its authority.

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#18 2017-03-22 01:50:24

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,120

Re: The state of US Education

Rob,

Education - If that's actually true, then that's one more reason to add to the list of reasons why our federal government should not have federal tax money allocated to education.  If there is no federal money for state and local politicians to abuse, for which they are accountable to the federal government vs state or local government, then there is one less opportunity for unscrupulous politicians to abuse the tax payers.  Apart from setting standards for curriculum, education is not an issue that the federal government needs to be involved in.

Housing - Congress enabled the banks to make egregiously poor lending decisions that would not otherwise have been legally permissible.  That was my point.  Every time government makes a new law, corporations find ways around the law or find ways to pervert the original intent of the law.  This goes back to my point about the government that governs effectively and efficiently is best.

Military - We're not asking for military spending advice from a country that can't adequately defend itself if its primary adversary ever attacks.  We could certainly close all of our overseas military bases, which are egregiously expensive to maintain, and that would cut at least $100B from our military budget, if not $150B.  I completely agree with the sentiment that the US does not need to maintain military bases overseas.  If a country wants us there, then it can pay to have us there.  If their citizens don't want us there, then we should leave.  If the world changes overnight, and it will if we leave, then the few who live will understand what not having us there is like.

We also have no way of knowing exactly what Russia or China actually spend on their militaries.  Those two nations are the only credible threats to US sovereignty, but the objective of our defense spending is to achieve capabilities overmatch rather than simply out-spending everyone else.  That said, we can still maintain overmatch without spending so much.

Regarding who can start wars and when, are you unfamiliar with the War Powers Act?  POTUS may legally conduct military operations for up to 90 days prior to receiving written approval from Congress.  That was a bad idea, in retrospect.

Regarding ways to reduce military spending, I provided a number of proposals for doing that.  I have communicated this information to our representatives, but I may as well be talking to a wall.  If anyone is interested, I'll post some tidbits from my proposals.

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#19 2017-03-26 10:08:58

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,756
Website

Re: The state of US Education

Connections between Team Trump and Russia are long confirmed (for one thing the Russian mafia is one of The Donald's biggest investors).  Collusion between Team Trump and Russia to sway voter's opinions with fake news stuff:   lots of smoke,  no fire.  Worth continuing to dig,  though,  just because of the smoke.  As for monkeying with vote tallies,  it's scary:  they could have done it,  but the evidence says they did not.  Yet.

The fake news thing is a serious threat,  and is partially attributable to the dumbing-down of education in recent decades.  Few today could pass a 3rd grade test from a century ago.  Stupid people are easier to rule,  and to fool with propaganda:  that's why the dumbing-down was done.  That needs reversal,  but it will take generations to fully correct.  Until it is corrected,  idiotic political ideologies will continue to substitute for practical policy suggestions,  and we will continue to be awash in venal politicians,  with no statesmen around at all. 

Monkeying with vote tallies (by anyone,  foreign or domestic) is stopped by using paper ballots.  It may be slow and inconvenient,  but it cannot be hacked,  if no computers are involved.  But it has to be done right:  no more of that hanging-chad or misprinted butterfly-ballot bullshit.  Graphite marks in ovals on paper can be read pretty reliably.  There ought to be some sort of national standard for ballot format that the states can use,  improve-on,  and enforce for themselves. 

As for Russian tampering-by-hacking or fake newsdissemination,  may "tit for tat" is something we should do. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-03-26 10:14:53)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#20 2017-04-02 18:21:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

We talked some time ago about entitlements and federal fundings sent to states to make use of and how all needed to go according to the GOP and Trump....

Which States Rely the Most on Federal Aid?

Such aid takes many forms. It includes federal Medicaid payments, education funding assistance, support for infrastructure projects, housing grants, and more.

2013 percentages:
FedAidtoStates_hi-res.png

2017’s Most & Least Federally Dependent States

The idea of the American freeloader burst into the public consciousness when #47percent started trending on Twitter in 2012. And while the notion is senselessly insulting to millions of hardworking Americans, it is true that some states receive a far higher return on their federal income-tax contributions than others.

Most Federally Dependent States is something that is very interesting to see the comparison for what should be wealthy states and which are poor.

Which kind of makes me wonder which states are takers and which can afford to give.. Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers? And is that even the correct way to frame the question?

The page gives food stamps or snap as its called now as well a poverty map....

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#21 2017-04-04 02:42:41

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,120

Re: The state of US Education

I don't care if our President previously lived on the street or in a gold plated palace.  All I care about is that our President has the right sort of policies for our country.  I don't vote for people because they have a sliver tongue or based upon what their previous position in our government was, if any.  I want to know that our new hires have the requisite motivation to do whatever the job requires and that they have demonstrated the ability to lead.

"America First" is absolutely the right policy to have.  Our President is not the President of the World.  That means he or she shall represent Americans first, the rest of the world second, and humanity always.  The leader of the free world needs to value individual liberties, free market principles, and equality before the law.  The man or woman selected must respect their fellow Americans as well as people from foreign countries, even people they don't like.

As I've stated previously, the government that governs best is not the government that governs most or least.  The government that governs most effectively and efficiently governs best.  We haven't had a government that's governed effectively or efficiently in quite some time.  President Trump seems more than willing to listen to anyone willing to compromise, so long as that compromise is in the best interest of the American people.

Here's a list of things that are definitely not in the best interest of the American people:

1. An energy policy that increases energy costs for American families and companies
2. A trade policy that favors foreign products and services over domestic products and services
3. A taxation policy that incentivizes American companies to move their manufacturing operations to other countries
4. An education system that does not adequately prepare students to become globally competitive workers
5. A byzantine regulatory policy that is nearly impossible to comply with
6. A failing health care system that incentivizes immoral behavior from insurance providers
7. A military used for purposes other than defending our country and our allies
8. A procurement system that incentivizes irresponsible behavior on the part of government contractors
9. An infrastructure investment plan that does not improve the flow of people and products
10. A scientific investment plan that does not address the most pressing issues first, namely energy independence

If those issues are adequately addressed, then Americans will live long and prosper.  President Trump has a herculean task set before him.

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#22 2017-04-08 19:57:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

I hope you are going to like the new levels of costs for the security of this administration as its coming from all the cuts to agency fundings but its still going to cause the tax rates to increase for less services.

The education security is costing about $1 million a month. The Marshals Service has hired about two dozen guards for her security detail. That includes 20 positions at from $95,000 to $123,000 each annually and two at an annual salary of $112,000 to $146,000.

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#23 2017-07-01 08:53:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

The science division of the White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) was unstaffed as of Friday as the three remaining employees departed this week. Science division of White House office left empty as last staffers depart all three employees were holdovers from the Obama administration. The science division was staffed with nine employees who led the charge on policy issues such as STEM education, biotechnology and crisis response.

The president signed an executive order Friday to revive a council last in place in 1993.
President Donald Trump is forming a National Space Council to be led by Vice President Mike Pence.
Trump says the announcement sends a clear signal to the world about the United States' leadership in space. He says space exploration would help the economy and national security.

Members of the council are to include the secretaries of state, defense, commerce, transportation and homeland security, as well as the head of NASA, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the national security adviser and the director of national intelligence. The council will also draw on insights from scientists and business leaders.

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#24 2017-09-06 17:47:46

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

Trump sides with Democrats to raise debt limit and fund government for 3 months...
California to file separate suit on immigration protections

What Congress could do to protect young unauthorized immigrants The last full-scale effort to tackle the issue came in 2013, when the Senate passed a bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill that included provisions for Dreamers. The bill stalled in the Republican-controlled House over GOP divisions on immigration.

Trump administration's plan to phase out the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, has put Congress under the gun to put forward a legislative fix.

Democratic-controlled House bill passed in 2010 but failed to advance in the Senate.
The bipartisan bill, modeled on earlier proposals, would allow Dreamers to obtain permanent residency and American citizenship if they graduate from high school or obtain a GED and work for at least three years, serve in the military or pursue higher education. The bill would require applicants to demonstrate English proficiency, have no history of serious crimes and pass law enforcement and security background checks.

Eighteen moderate House Republicans have endorsed a proposal to create a path to permanent residency and citizenship for high school graduates who do not rely on public assistance. Applicants would be eligible to apply for permanent residency if they pursue a college degree, serve in the military or stay employed for five years. Eventually, they would be permitted to apply for citizenship. Military personnel would be eligible to apply for naturalization immediately and skip applying for permanent residency.

Then again this Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas does not seem to know what a negative is as he is viewing the Legal status for young immigrants would have "negative consequences", I ask how so as they become able bodied to pay there way and so much more but if you take them out of the equation your schools will need less teachers, your colleges will be a little bit less full, the amount of open jobs will stay unfiled ect... those are negatives....

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#25 2017-12-25 22:26:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,417

Re: The state of US Education

Just a few faces of those saying that you are wrong.....

BBHm52x.img?h=492&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1276&y=1928

“The Republicans have become an anti-science, anti-fact, anti-immigrant, anti-cosmopolitan party, and that is just very unappealing to college-educated voters,” So look out GOP in 2018 as College graduates in America’s suburbs have turned hard against Republicans in elections around the country and threaten to upend the party’s control of Congress in the 2018 midterm elections.

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