New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2018-09-12 07:11:28

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,854

Starlink - Space X's space internet project

We haven't focussed much on the Starlink project, which ultimately will involve a 12,000 satellite space internet project...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_ … tellation)

Things seem to be going well:

https://www.space.com/39785-spacex-inte … ation.html

It's an interesting topic in relation to Mars.  Firstly, because previous projections from Space X have suggested this is supposed to generate a huge revenue stream. I can see how that might be, especially if it undercuts existing ISP charges. If it does, it could easily pay for infrastructure investment on Mars over the next few decades. Secondly, I am wondering if it would have any use in communication with Mars. Would it mean you could beam radio message toward Earth and the Starlink network could pick it up?

Any thought on Starlink?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#2 2018-09-12 16:31:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

First Space x is a launch provider and not a satelite manufacturer but that said I sure would like a cheap internet.

spacex-falcon-9-e1519206757548.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780

Here’s everything you need to know about SpaceX Starlink

Between sexy electric cars, “hyperloop” transit systems, reusable rockets, and Mars colonies; there’s certainly no shortage of things to look forward to from the guy. The project is expected to cost around $10 billion in total. There are currently only 1,459 satellites currently in orbit around earth, along with 2,600 inactive. SpaceX will need to launch 4,425 satellites into orbit to achieve its desired coverage. On February 22, 2018, SpaceX and Starlink took a huge step: The project successfully launched the first two Starlink test satellites (named Tintin A and Tintin B) from the Vandenberg Air Force base in California.

SpaceX’s Starlink Satellite Internet: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

SpaceX's plan to beam down internet from space comes with a big debris problem

ouch traffic jam....

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F725040%2F0d14b0de-9ee2-469b-9c09-37290c19da89.jpg

The derelict Russian satellite Cosmos 2251 had been aimlessly spinning around Earth for nearly 15 years when, in 2009, it slammed into a functional Iridium telecommunication satellite at 26,000 miles per hour.

This collision sprayed an estimated 200,000 centimeter-sized bits of debris into orbit around Earth. Another 3,200 broken pieces from the crash were much larger, at 10 centimeters or greater in size.

Not every nation deems that they should send the satelites and other space items into the oceans of the world before it is to late to do so.

Sure we could collect and do so but at what cost and technology?

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F726236%2Fc89ef765-2650-45f5-a7bb-1ad4a42ae940.jpg

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech … 554028002/

https://www.space.com/39755-spacex-used … lites.html

Offline

#3 2018-09-13 04:24:21

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,294
Website

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

If your costs are low enough, you can launch into very low orbits that are cleared of debris byatmospheric drag, and just replace satellites whenever they run out of propellant and fall out of the sky.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#4 2018-09-13 06:14:28

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,854

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Re Spacenut's comments, although Space X won't be manufacturing the satellites, it does look like it is their project - so they are buying them in I presume.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#5 2018-11-11 21:14:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Offline

#6 2019-02-28 21:13:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Offline

#7 2019-05-24 19:37:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

SpaceX's 60-Satellite Launch Is Just the Beginning for Starlink Megaconstellation Project

May 23, 2019 · On Thursday night, SpaceX launched a batch of 60 internet communications satellites from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. More than one hour later, some 270 miles above Earth, the cluster of satellites — part of a system called Starlink — pushed off from the rocket that carried it to orbit.

SpaceX won regulatory approval to launch nearly 12,000 Starlink broadband relay stations in multiple orbital planes. Equipped with high-speed satellite-to-satellite communications links, the eventual network is designed to seamlessly hand off internet traffic as required to provide uninterrupted access.

Offline

#8 2019-05-31 08:53:19

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,475

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

I am watching the "Hysterical Manic/Depressive" news about this.

Astronomers are upset about light pollution.

And there is some hysteria about the Kessler Syndrome potential.

I think that SpaceX has already proposed to pigment their future editions, to reduce the astronomical concerns.

As for the Kessler Syndrome, I have to imagine that for SpaceX to have gotten permission to do Starlink, the powers that be, are satisfied that a run-away Kessler Syndrome can be avoided, if proper concern is applied.

I also feel that since I have seen mention of a Starship type that can clean space junk, and also other entities such as the ESA, are also looking into cleaning methods which could involve harpoons, that in the future, who makes the junk will be responsible to clean it up.  Not a guarantee, (I would be very disappointed by a Kessler Syndrome actually happening), but any tool we use can have bad effects if badly used.

……

But back to Astronomy....

I have wondered if something like these Starlink devices could possibly be used to do some Astronomy.

So far, I have two things in mind.

1) I seem to recall that Japan, had an incident where an asteroid occulted a star, and in this event, it was possible to extract information about the star.  So, could a device similar to a Starlink satellite be able to be maneuvered in such a way as to occult a star, in hopes of doing the same I would presume that ground based telescopes would be the seeing devices.  Of course size, distance, and position would need to be set correctly, and the event would be very quick.  However, the device might be able to be used many times for many stars.  For this version of the device, I should think that it would be desired to give the device extra propellant, and to make it have a long functioning life time.

2) The other thing would be a ring of these devices around the Moon.  Some orbits of the Moon are relatively stable, I understand, but many are not.  However these devices would have active propulsion, and so could fight to stay in an aligned orbit while they were functioning.  I am imagining that some part of the ring would be on the far side of the Moon during parts of their orbits.  And yet I would expect that the entire ring could communicate with itself, so information appropriated by the devices could be extracted from the devices which were currently on the near side.  Another method would be that the far side devices record some information, and then transmit it to Earth when they passed to the near side of the Moon.

The instrumentation for this is quite a bit beyond my comprehension, but even though this would not necessarily be as good as a radio telescope, perhaps there is something of importance that could be discovered by such a device.  It also obviously does not require landing on the Moon, and setting up on the Moon's surface.

And of course such a ring around the Moon could also facilitate communications with activities of machines and crews operating on the far side of the Moon.

Anyway, why not at least consider the notions?

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-05-31 09:21:09)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

Offline

#9 2019-10-11 21:25:38

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

I see to many topics and stuff not of the topic as always....

Here is the next up and coming event.

SpaceX To Launch 60 More Satelites To Space Next Week

Offline

#10 2019-11-11 22:31:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Offline

#11 2019-11-12 06:25:24

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,854

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Aka "fairing"?? Or is that something different...?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#12 2019-11-12 19:14:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

A fairing is the shroud or cover that surrounds the payload or cargo which will be launched for use. Generally, the cargo is a satellite although any other .

SpaceX faces competitors in race to build Internet-satellite constellation On Monday, SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket is scheduled to deliver 60 small satellites into orbit.

The new batch of satellites will bring the Starlink constellation population to 120. As part of its satellite Internet operation, SpaceX plans to launch some 12,000 satellites over the next half-decade.

Thats a huge number of satelites.... and its only going to get more crowded wity more competition on the way. Richard Branson's Virgin Group, Boeing, Amazon and LeoSat Enterprises


Last winter, OneWeb launched six small satellites. Tests confirmed the mini constellation produces a serviceable signal, and the company expects to launch another 60 satellites in early 2020.

Thats definently going to competition and hopefully that means low cost
OneWeb, which is targeting an initial constellation population of 650, and later 2,000, expects to begin offering service in the Arctic by the end of 2020 and global coverage in 2021.

Offline

#13 2019-11-13 22:12:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Why is American internet access so much more expensive than the rest of the world?

The same question could be asked of the cable TV costs since many reside on the same wire....

Offline

#14 2020-01-27 14:51:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

This was to launch today SpaceX prepares for Starlink launch Monday

SpaceX has plans for at least 12 small-satellite launches

Liftoff of the Falcon 9 rocket is planned for 9:49 a.m. from Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, which is attached to Kennedy Space Center. Weather is only 50 percent favorable for the launch due to possible storms and thick clouds, according to an Air Force forecast. A backup time slot on Tuesday morning has an 80 percent favorable outlook. SpaceX has 182 of its dinner table-size Starlink satellites in orbit, each weighing about 573 pounds. The rocket scheduled to lift off Monday carries 60 more satellites. SpaceX intends ultimately to launch tens of thousands of satellites to beam broadband around the globe.


Starlink satellites orbit about 340 miles above the Earth. By comparison, the Kármán line that defines space is 62 miles high, and the International Space Station is more than 250 miles high.
SpaceX tested the satellites by beaming a signal at speeds of 600 megabytes per second into an Air Force jet in flight. That compares to 25 megabytes per second recommended by the Federal Communications Commission for streaming ultra-high-definition video.
Each Starlink satellite has small thrusters that use electronic propulsion fueled by krypton gas. The motors are intended to help redirect the spacecraft if it is headed for a collision with another space object.
The thrusters also help the satellites re-enter Earth's atmosphere and burn up at the end of their useful life or when they become obsolete. If the thrusters fail, the low orbit of the satellites would mean burning up within five years.

Offline

#15 2020-01-27 15:20:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

https://broadbandnow.com/Starlink
Starlink will require a ground-based flat Phased Array antenna, which is roughly the size of a laptop computer and may cost between $100 – $300.

https://spacenews.com/spacex-plans-to-s … s-in-2020/

SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell said the goal is to complete six to eight Starlink launches to get sufficient coverage to start offering the service to consumers in 2020. The price point is also being studied. Shotwell said millions of people in the U.S. pay $80 per month to get “crappy service.” She didn’t say whether Starlink will cost more or less than $80 per month but suggested that would be a segment of the public the company would target as well as rural areas that currently have no connectivity.

At those prices I am not changing my wireless service which is cellular 3g at 10g data a month at 35.

https://www.americantv.com/spacex-internet.php

average satellite internet plans cost anywhere from $30 today to $130 per month. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think the SpaceX internet price would fall somewhere in the middle of this range.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-teases … ice-debut/

Thanks to their uniquely flat form factor, the satellites can be packed into a Falcon 9 fairing with extreme efficiency, making SpaceX’s first dedicated Starlink launch the company’s heaviest payload ever at more than 18.5 tons (~40,000 lb). For comparison, OneWeb plans to launch approximately 30×150 kg satellites per Soyuz 2.1 launch with a traditional cylindrical adapter, itself weighing ~1000 kg.

Offline

#16 2020-01-31 21:24:43

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Winter weather may have delayed launch several days but in the end we have a winner as SpaceX Falcon 9 launches fourth batch of 60 Starlink satellites

Offline

#17 2020-01-31 22:18:44

* R O B O T *
Member
Registered: 2020-01-31
Posts: 3

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

According to this article, SpaceX hopes to launch as many as 12,000 small sized satellites as part of the project. That sounds like a lot of space junk... I hope Elon Musk has a plan to dispose of all the satellites when they eventually burn out.

Here's a good article on the dangers of space junk and how it could even effect us:
bigthink.com/paul-ratner/how-the-kessle … odern-life

Last edited by * R O B O T * (2020-01-31 22:19:43)


“All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once.” - Terry Pratchett

Offline

#18 2020-01-31 22:25:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Welcome to Newmars ROBOT,

Natural disposal is just falling out of orbit but the debri and of its near collisions are very real for men that are working in LEO. The satelites may be in a high orbit but the fuel to station keep them there will run out in time.
Even astronomers complained that they would show up in photos of the stars, so space x has colored them black in hopes that it will do the trick.

Offline

#19 2020-02-01 00:17:04

* R O B O T *
Member
Registered: 2020-01-31
Posts: 3

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

SpaceNut wrote:

Welcome to Newmars ROBOT,

Natural disposal is just falling out of orbit but the debri and of its near collisions are very real for men that are working in LEO. The satelites may be in a high orbit but the fuel to station keep them there will run out in time.
Even astronomers complained that they would show up in photos of the stars, so space x has colored them black in hopes that it will do the trick.

Whoops, forgot about atmospheric drag. I must have missed it, but the first article I linked said that the satellites were put in an orbit "low enough to get pulled down to Earth by atmospheric drag in a few years so that they don't become space junk once they die." Even the International Space Station needs regular boosts to a higher orbit as compensation for atmospheric drag.
Is Kessler Syndrome still possible and/or dangerous then? Even if the space junk clears up in time due to atmospheric drag, it could still take out communication and GPS satellites, as well as temporarily inhibiting space travel beyond LEO.


“All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once.” - Terry Pratchett

Offline

#20 2020-02-01 09:42:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Like this Two satellites just avoided a head-on smash. How close did they come to disaster?

Satelites are one thing but man's safety that is where the line needs to be drawn.

Offline

#21 2020-03-09 19:29:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Elon Musk is throwing the B.S. Flag on the poor astronomers being able to see the stars...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … li=BBnb7Kz

Offline

#22 2020-05-19 20:21:18

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

spacex-starlink-60-satellites-satellite-train-marco-langbroek-at-sattrackblog-hg.jpg

Offline

#23 2020-08-07 20:45:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,222

Re: Starlink - Space X's space internet project

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB