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#76 2019-12-08 21:44:10

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,180

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

1. The FBI Director was leaking classified information to the media.  His bureau also used falsified documents to obtain a warrant to spy on President Trump from a FISA court, which is a federal crime.  A lawyer appointed by former President Obama recommended that former Director Comey be fired, so he was.

2. President Trump is in no way compelled to participate in the impeachment process.  This is the way a charge of contempt works.  Congress demands something.  You say, "No thanks, I'm not complying".  Congress goes to a court.  If the court upholds the Congressional demand, then you're in contempt if you don't comply.  If the court doesn't uphold the demand, then you're not in contempt of anything.

3. The Democrats are accusing President Trump of doing exactly what they actually did to him using the FBI, CIA, and various foreign actors, which constitutes the dictionary definition of election interference.

The "courageous whistle blower" is so courageous that he won't show his face in Congress.  He's a cowardly little Democrat operative who thought he could initiate a coup against President Trump, and is being represented by liars, I mean lawyers, who tweeted out that they intended to start a coup against President Trump after he was sworn into office.

4. If President Trump's political opponents would stop bragging about breaking the law in open forums, then maybe he'd stop calling for investigations into them.  Once again, the party doing the accusing did exactly what they're accusing him of doing without evidence.

5. This is another obvious fraud, which would be why your exalted Democrat politicians have done such a poor job of "exposing the corruption".  It's because there isn't any that Democrat politicians actually care about.  They flew their staffs all over the world when President Obama was in office and none of the media ever uttered a peep about it.  He doesn't control any of the properties he owns right now, nor is he required to sell them, nor is any part of this claim valid in an actual court of law.

6. When former President Clinton was doing everything with a pair of legs, the Democrats never made a peep.  Weak sauce.

7. He did tell his officials to break the law?  We have evidence of this?  No, of course not- because if we did he'd be gone already.

8. When President Obama was lying his rear end off about a plan that's cost Americans hundreds of billions of dollars for more expensive health care, your media morons were singing his praises.

NOW HEAR THIS!

PRESIDENT TRUMP DOES NOT HAVE TO MAKE DEMOCRATS HAPPY WHILE HE'S IN OFFICE.  DEMOCRATS DIDN'T ELECT HIM TO OFFICE.  PRESIDENT OBAMA NEVER REPRESENTED THE INTERESTS OF REPUBLICANS WHILE HE WAS IN OFFICE.  TURNABOUT IS FAIR PLAY.

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#77 2019-12-09 19:10:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Trump Russia and Ukraine Five Presidential Conspiracy Theories Debunked
Trump's 'spying' theory not so much
Trump's 'witch hunt' theory he did
Trump's DNC server theory not true as well
Trump's Ukraine 2016 meddling theory stick a fork in the claims...
Trump's 'fake dossier' theory facts are facts

4 takeaways from the Horowitz report on the Russia investigation
1. A triple rebuke to Trump’s conspiracy theories
2. FISA reform lies ahead

More false claims from Trump claims DOJ inspector general report shows 'attempted overthrow' of the government actually investigation of corruption and impeachment with the Russia probe legally justified.

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#78 2019-12-10 00:17:51

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,180

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

The reason the Democrats keep going around in circles with this sham is that their supporters are the only ones buying into it and demanding that they do it due to their pathological refusal to accept that average working class Americans told the Democrats to go pound sand.  The media is busy screaming into their megaphone into an empty room.  It's clear that it's driving them insane.  Nobody is watching their malarkey anymore, no matter how loudly they scream or what they claim without evidence.  You can only cry wolf so many times before nobody cares anymore.

First it was Russia collusion.  After 2 years of breathless media claims about how "Mueller was going to take down the President any day now", that fell apart the moment Mueller couldn't even testify to what was in his own report.  Then it was racism, which is facially absurd and completely lacking in evidence, not that that's ever mattered to Democrats.  If they believe it, then it must be true- the epitome of confirmation bias.

From there, it was on to quid pro quo- directly refuted by the Ukrainian President who never had the slightest clue about what was going on.  And let's be real here, why would he even care?  He's a comedian.  He was probably too busy laughing his rear end off watching this nonsense.  After the transcript of the call was released, ever so shortly thereafter, it was digging up dirt on Biden for 2020, despite the fact that President Trump told his Justice Department and personal attorney to look into what happened in the 2016 election.  Later that day, it was extortion- again, without the Ukrainians ever knowing they were being extorted.  Not sure how that was supposed to work, but basic logic was never one of the Democrats' strength.  I don't think a whole week passed before it was bribery- despite the fact that there's nobody he has any leverage over.  And now...  We're right back to the Russia collusion hoax.

There's a running theme here.  The Democrats attempt to perpetrate an obvious fraud by caterwauling as loudly as they can about something the other party doesn't even care enough to ever contemplate, much less actually try, nobody else buys into it but their rapidly dwindling support base, mostly radical leftists now, who choose to believe that President Trump is the devil himself- the media told them so, therefore it must be true.  Inevitably, the first ray of light hits their claim, no evidence materializes, it all falls apart as fast as it started, and then that's all she wrote for that sham.  Ever so shortly thereafter, they concoct a new fraud that also fails miserably.  Now they've circled right back to a previously exposed fraud.  It never went anywhere the first time, so let's try it a second time.  At least now I understand why these people continually vote for socialism even after it starts killing them all.  Their brains are functioning like faulty computer software stuck in an infinite loop, the operating system eventually crashes when the resources are exhausted, everything that was in memory is lost after the reboot and there's no recorder to analyze the fault- so it's like nothing ever happened, and then they immediately run the same program again with the same result.

It must be dizzying for them to spin around in circles so fast, like a donkey trying to pin its own tail.  Everyone else but the donkey knows it's never going to work, but the donkey simply spins around faster and faster until it can't stand up anymore.  All that stumbling around would be a clue to anyone else that they need to try something else.  Doing anything at all for the American people would be a really good start.

Your party must be at their wits end by now.  They can't just buy their way into power- what I think the political class is actually so ticked off at President Trump for since they're bought and paid for and he's not, can't get everyone to believe in the big lie- that President Trump wasn't duly elected by the American people, and can't even manufacture evidence to remove him from power that passes the most cursory examination by some of the most incompetent lawyers in the world, aka Congress.  I've never seen a group of people more desperate to seize power that was rightfully taken from them due to their absurdly poor governance policies.

So... Moving on to the latest regressive media manipulation attempt...

The IG report says the dossier was a pack of lies that was paid for by the Clinton campaign and subsequently used against President Trump by the FBI to obtain FISA warrants.  Comey himself said the dossier was "salacious and unverified" and now that our IG has done due diligence on the dossier to verify or refute what it contained, they've come to the determination that it was entirely made-up- which makes using it to obtain a FISA warrant a federal crime.  By their own admission, the FBI never attempted to verify what was in the dossier.  Major mistake.

The DNC never allowed the FBI to examine their hacked server, so we have no clue as to whether or not any of what Crowdstrike claimed was true or not, nor do we even know where their server hard drives went to.  It was all so secretive that the FBI could never be allowed to examine it.  I do wonder why.

If you think the Horowitz report was a rebuke of President Trump, then you must be reading your own version of the report.  I know that liberal propagandists work 24/7 to try to find anything and everything that they could ever possibly twist into something to use to attack President Trump with, but this silliness is looking more and more desperate by the day.

We've probably squandered close to $100M of the tax payers' money on this utter nonsense from the Democrat Party because they steadfastly refuse to honor the results of what former President Obama himself said were free and fair elections that reflected the will of the American people, ignoring the billions already lost on trade deals and infrastructure fixes.  If former Secretary Clinton had won the 2016 Presidential election, you would never see me spending every waking hour of the day looking for reasons to claim she wasn't elected fair and square.  You're not impeaching President Trump because there's absolutely nothing to impeach him over, apart from your party's burning hatred for the man because he made them all (Democrats and Republicans alike) look so foolish.  It's time to get over it and get back to work.

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#79 2019-12-14 14:10:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Articles of impeachment against Donald Trump
On December 10, 2019, the U.S. House of Representatives announced two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump for Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress.
https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democ … chment.pdf

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Thursday that he will be in "total coordination with the White House counsel" as the impeachment into President Donald Trump presses on to the next phase.

In the U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 3, clause 6 specifies that senators, when sitting on a trial of impeachment, "shall be on Oath or Affirmation" meaning they take taking is a "juror’s oath,"in addition to the "legislator’s oath" they already carry.

An oath each senator wll take before the trial to "render impartial justice."

"If articles of impeachment are sent to the Senate, every single senator will take an oath to render ‘impartial justice.' Making sure the Senate conducts a fair and honest trial that allows all the facts to come out is paramount," Schumer said, citing the Senate rules for impeachment trials.

Further, Senate rules for impeachment trials require senators to "solemnly swear (or affirm) that in all things appertaining to the trial," they "do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws" -- meaning senators should not make decisions based off party affiliation, according to the Constitution.

Will they do what is in there charge or will they front there boss to protect and obstruct the impeachment process is the question....

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#80 2019-12-15 17:22:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

So much for an impartial juror pool...

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler accused Senate Republicans of violating their oath to be impartial jurors in an impeachment trial, as GOP senators defended their right to work for President Trump’s acquittal. “That’s in violation of the oath that they’re about to take, and it’s a complete subversion of the constitutional scheme,” but several Republican senators argued that impartiality doesn’t cover politics.

Trump impeachment: Obstruction of Congress charge will define our future as a nation in its second proposed article of impeachment. Trump’s decision to completely stonewall the House — to withhold documentation from Congress during its impeachment investigation and to order witnesses not to testify — is nothing less than an assault on the checks and balances at the core of the American system. The institutions and mechanisms we have long relied upon to keep executive power within bounds seem no longer to function. Incumbents in institutions like the presidency and some parts of the Congress are losing sight of the importance of the rule of law, and placing the health of our democracy at risk.

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#81 2019-12-19 12:12:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Mitch McConnell On Trump Impeachment: 'I'm Not Impartial courts would say that its a tainted juror panel and would ask the court for a new person....


House and Senate leaders tussle over Trump impeachment trial

House vote to impeach President Donald Trump
On December 18, 2019, the US House of Representatives voted to impeach President Donald Trump for the high crimes and misdemeanors of Article I: Abuse of Power (230-197) and Article II: Obstruction of Congress (229-198).

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#82 2019-12-19 23:04:20

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,760
Website

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

McConnell is doing everything he can for a fast acquittal vote,  or at most a short "trial" with witnesses coordinated with the defendant.  In other words,  he is egregiously rigging the senate trial.  If I were Chief Justice Roberts,  I would speak up and put McConnell in his proper place.   Why the mainstream media aren't screaming about this malfeasance on McConnell's part is beyond me to understand.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#83 2019-12-20 02:16:01

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,180

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

GW,

Yes, Senator McConnell is doing everything he can to end this sham so the Legislature can move on to doing nothing, which is the only thing it normally does.

It's interesting that you believe that Chief Justice Roberts needs to put Senator McConnell in his place, much as the rest of the Democrats feel the need to put the American electorate in its place for daring to vote for someone they disapprove of.

Do you mean to tell us that the Senate trial is rigged, just like the Spanish Inquisition in the House was rigged?

Say it ain't so.

The mainstream media have been doing nothing but screaming about malfeasance since before President Trump was sworn into office.  It turns out that if you repeatedly lie your rear end off, only to be later get caught doing that, then people quit listening.  Funny, that.

It's fine and dandy that Democrats believe the story they've been telling themselves, but the rest of us require evidence.  Since no evidence was delivered by the Democrats in the House making the claim, the Senate is ending this mockery of a sham.  All the witnesses who testified before the House couldn't identify which action or statement President Trump made that they thought constituted a crime, despite the fact that some of them were appointed by former President Obama and not particularly friendly to the President.

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#84 2019-12-20 09:30:16

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,760
Website

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

It was no sham,  although it was too-polluted by politics in the House.  The evidence against Trump is quite real.  Whether it deserves removal is another matter,  but he certainly did deserve impeachment.

It is a crime under federal law for a foreign entity to participate in an American election.  I don't know for sure,  but I rather suspect it is also a crime to solicit such election help from foreigners.  If not,  it certainly should be,  and you would have to agree,  despite your politics that diverge so sharply from mine.

Trying to extort such election help from Ukraine is exactly what Trump did (it's NOT about the one phone call transcript,  it's about the well-observed and documented pattern of behavior in the months around it).  And then he obstructed the investigation into this act.  In public.  In front of everybody.  And THAT is what the two articles of impeachment deal with.

This is a very,  very serious business,  and it deserves a fair and proper trial in the Senate.  McConnell is quite clearly doing his best to rig that trial in favor of a fast acquittal.  He has said in public that he is not impartial and that he is in fact so trying to rig things.  That is breaking his path to uphold and protect the Constitution (and I understand very well what that oath means,  because I took it when I entered the Navy).

It ain't about your "evil Democrats" vs your "virtuous Republicans" (which is misinformation parroted by the far right,  that traces in part to Russian disinformation).  It's about breaking oaths of office.  I've seen enough of that to justify putting the whole lot up against the wall.

Trump isn't the only one deserving to be removed. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-12-20 09:34:05)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#85 2019-12-20 13:03:13

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,180

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

GW,

President Trump is being impeached because he's investigating the very acts committed by a fellow Democrat that the Democrats are accusing President Trump of doing.  Former Vice President Biden is such a street thug that he's on tape in a public forum bragging about doing what your precious Democrats are accusing President Trump of doing, namely threatening to pull foreign aid from the Ukraine because a prosecutor in that country was investigating the Ukrainian oil company, Barisma, that his otherwise completely unqualified drug addict son happened to sit on the board of.  Our allies, the British, froze 23 million in assets in Barisma accounts in London because that company was suspected of criminal activities.

If it's a crime for a foreign entity to become involved in our elections, then former Secretary of State Clinton would be in jail right now, as would several members of the DNC staff.  If the Legislature and the Obama Administration Justice Department were serious about enforcing the law, she'd be in jail for theft of classified information, but that's just another federal felony that her Democrats were busy obfuscating and sweeping under the rug.  You and I both know we'd be sitting in Leavenworth for the rest of our lives for doing what she did.  Moving on to her other crimes, though...  Her campaign received money directly from individuals working for the Saudi Arabian government and the Clinton Campaign and DNC hired a British national named Christopher Steele to dig up dirt on a political opponent, which apparently failed, so he simply started making stuff up, the DNC passed it off to the FBI which, by their own admission, never bothered to validate what the "Steele Dossier" / "Steele Pack of Lies" contained, which the FBI then used as the sole basis for obtaining a FISA warrant against President Trump's campaign.  Mind you, this is after the FBI altered an E-mail sent to them from the CIA to start a counter-intelligence investigation by accusing Mr. Page, a CIA confidential informant in good standing with the agency, of acting as a foreign agent, which represents a string of federal felonies committed by the Democrats' fellow criminal lackeys in the FBI and DoJ.

President Trump is under no obligation to assist Congress in investigating him for anything.  There is no such law entitled "Obstruction of Congress by the Executive" or "Obstruction of Congress by the Judiciary".  In 2014, former Attorney General Holder cited legal precedent outlining why his agency, part of our Executive Branch, did not have to comply with the demands from Congress for witness testimony or documents regarding his Justice Department's activities during Operation Fast and Furious.

In fact, our Constitution, which our Constitutional "experts", the hilarious Democrats, have been citing so frequently as of late, as if they ever cared about it, expressly permits the Executive, Legislature, and Judiciary to operate as independent entities not subject to the political whims of another branch of government.  As to your facially false claim that President Trump extorted the Ukrainian government, the person you're extorting has to know they're being extorted in order for that charge to carry water.  Since officials from the Ukrainian government have publicly stated that they had no idea what was going on, nor even that their aid money had been held up at all, that completely sinks that false claim.

This impeachment sham is not serious business, but it is a very serious attempt by the Democrats to brazenly fabricate more evidence-free claims of crimes that there is good evidence that their own party members have actually committed.  The American people gave the single digit salute to the criminal Democrats during the last election, at the ballot box, and they're about to do it again during the 2020 Presidential election.

If you actually think I believe that any politician has any virtues at all based upon political party affiliation, then you're living in your own echo chamber.  As of right now, one political party is throwing the mother of all temper tantrums over losing an election.  Former Secretary of State Clinton lost because she was unpopular within her own party and for no other reasons.  If you think Russian hackers or online advertisements caused tens of millions of Americans to vote for President Trump, then you're much deeper into your own belief system fallacies than I would have ever imagined.  However, I'm not the slightest bit interested in changing your beliefs.  I'm merely countering your beliefs, presented as some bizarre statement of fact, with the actual reasons why President Trump was elected.

I can tell you exactly why I voted for President Trump.  He was the only candidate who demonstrated even the slightest interest in doing anything that his constituents requested, rather than blindly pursuing an agenda that runs directly counter to their interests.  From my perspective, the candidate that you voted for never had any intention of doing anything more than perpetuating the worst aspects of crony capitalism while lying her sorry rear end off about caring for the working class men and women of America.  She doesn't care about anyone or anything, apart from lording her own power over her fellow Americans.  You'd have to ask her why, presuming she even could or would tell you.  Given her health issues, I'm not even sure she knows why.  As crass as President Trump clearly is, he has a very valid point that resonates with me and tens of millions of my fellow Americans.  Both political parties have enriched themselves and expanded their influence to the extreme detriment of the ordinary everyday American worker.  If they haven't done everything possible to screw us over, then it's not apparent to me.  We sent President Trump to carry our message to the rest of the politicians in the swamp- we're not playing your games anymore, either do what you promised to do or we'll find someone else who will.

One political party claims that's not what they're doing while the other is merely silent about that fact.  I prefer shame and silence (Republicans) over bold-faced lies (Democrats) because at least those who have shame may one day be shamed into doing something righteous for their own constituents- which is precisely what President Trump is busy doing to the Republican Party, meaning forcing them to live up to their promises.  When last I checked, being uncouth or unliked by the opposing political party, or even your own political party, isn't a crime of any kind.  The more feathers that President Trump ruffles, the more I like him.  The same would apply if Senator Sanders was elected instead.  We have an honest capitalist Democrat (President Trump; he was never a Republican until 4 years ago) and an honest communist (Senator Sanders) who ran for office.  The Republican Party couldn't stop President Trump from winning the nomination, but the Democrat Party did stop Senator Sanders.  The Democrats pretending to be what they're not are rapidly losing their grip on power.  Apart from those who buy into the religion of politics, even most Democrats aren't mindlessly consuming the lies being fed to them anymore by our media.  Most of us are sick and tired of it.  We're done with them.  The Republicans don't have any real power and that's increasingly obvious.  When the dominant political party, by membership and voter turnout, can't seize power in the rest of the country, despite every underhanded scheme they can concoct, it should be a wake-up call- a "clue" that they're "doing it wrong".

Those of us who still believe in our Republic are not going to be bullied into accepting this blatant "in-your-face" criminality at the hands of the Democrat Party.  People who aren't so self-absorbed that they can't recognize that fact have learned to live with President Trump's personal failings.  If he ever does something that runs contrary to the interests of the people who voted for him, rest assured that this Republican will be counted amongst the first to vote for another candidate.  Thus far, he's done or at least attempted to do everything he said he would do and nothing else.  In my book, that's a very refreshing change from "business as usual".

Regarding your "putting the whole lot up against the wall" comment, thinly disguised threats to execute everyone in our political system are completely unbecoming of someone with your intelligence, life experiences, and education, not to mention a violation of your oath of office.  We still have a remedy for dealing with politicians whose policies we don't like, which would be voting them out of office and making convincing arguments to our fellow Americans to do the same.  If you don't get your way, then better luck next time.  As long as we can agree to that system, there will always be a "next time".  If we can't agree to that, then our experiment in self-governance has ended and, in my opinion, not in a good way.  On a more personal note, I expect better from a fellow sailor.

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#86 2019-12-20 17:22:35

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,760
Website

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

"If you actually think I believe that any politician has any virtues at all based upon political party affiliation, then you're living in your own echo chamber."

That plus the misdeeds (on both sides of the aisle) are exactly why I said what I said about justifying lining the whole bunch (BOTH parties !!!!) against the wall.  That's NO threat,  just an opinion.

Don't read too much into what I wrote.  But the takeaway notion is that I despise BOTH parties,  including your apparently-beloved GOP.  I say that because your words indicate that you really hate Democrats. 

I think George Washington was right:  political parties are the wrong thing to allow.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#87 2019-12-20 17:48:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Appearing to say that its was alright for the democrats to do it makes it ok for Trump to do it arguement goes against the little voices in your head....
The base voice that are now calling for Trump to step down....Trump-skeptical evangelicals are losing patience with him.
Trump’s relationship with evangelicals has been highly discussed since 2016. Eighty-one percent of white, evangelical Christians voted for Trump that year, with just 16% supporting Hillary Clinton.  “If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come?”  “To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence.”

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/20 … ffice.html

There could be no better example as to why the Senate must be able to subpoena former officials for the impeachment trial and obtain documents Trump has concealed under a spurious absolute immunity defense. As a preliminary matter, the thought processes of those former senior officials — who would anonymously say that Trump was a Putin puppet but refuse to come forward to provide testimony well before we even got to an impeachment proceeding, in part about Trump’s alleged betrayal of national security — boggles the mind. They have either given cover to a president who is practically a foreign asset, or they are creating unwarranted fear that he is. The key Republican senators can do this by ending the logjam, vowing to vote for key witnesses, including current and past national security advisers, and demanding relevant documents. If they cannot do this bare minimum, you really have to question why they bother running and serving in the Senate.

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#88 2019-12-21 21:08:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

We are in a timeout for the holidays but Trump Quest to Expose Whistle-Blower Hard to Pull Off in Senate Trump’s biggest criticisms: that the complaint is hearsay.
Which means he thinks that no one else could have heard the conversation....With Trumps goal he’s nurtured for months: unmasking the whistle-blower who started it all. Trump’s order that current and former administration officials not cooperate is why he is there in the first place for one of the articles of impeachment...

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#89 2019-12-22 07:01:29

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,204
Website

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

I don't think laws passed by Congress trump the Sixth Amendment.

If the star witness refuses to testify, then it shouldn't take long to return a verdict and get back to business.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#90 2019-12-22 11:58:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

The amendments were all passed by congress...
The law still says that a no show to a supenona is a crime to testify, you take the pledge and then you respond that you take the 5th and 6th amendment rights on the stand....

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#91 2019-12-22 14:20:16

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,180

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

Congress doesn't determine whether or not a crime has been committed.  A court of law does that.  Congress is not a court of law.

Do you understand how that works?

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#92 2019-12-22 14:42:08

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,204
Website

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

They (the Senate) do in the case of impeachment...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#93 2019-12-22 14:48:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

The courts of congress are setup as committee investigations which are under the doj other wise there would be no investigations at all by the senate

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/about/jurisdiction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_oversight

https://www.justice.gov/jm/jm-1-8000-co … -relations

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#94 2019-12-22 15:51:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Deniability is gone as Ukraine aid blocked soon after Trump’s phone call with Zelenskiy, emails show

Trump acted around 90 minutes after the ‘do us a favor phone call as the Wildly Incriminating Emails Show the White House Knew Trump Was Extorting Ukraine Staff, including Mick Mulvaney, scrambled to justify the hold on nearly $400 million in aid

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#95 2019-12-22 16:48:16

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,180

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Terraformer,

Impeachment of the President by Congress is not a legal proceeding, no matter how "official" we try to make that process look.  Courts of law conduct legal proceedings.  The Judiciary convenes courts of law.  There are very specific procedures and standards for convening a court of law that a Senate "trial" does not meet.  Congress has never been a court of law and has no power to convene a court of law.  It's part of the separation of powers that has served us so well for so long.  We Americans do not use a parliamentary system due to the problems that The Founders noted with such systems of governance.  The people making the laws don't get to be judge, jury, and executioner, not even on the matter of impeachment.  The Chief Justice's observation of the Senate "trial" is an artifact of our belief in due process of law.  The decision made by the Senate only carries the force of law with it after being upheld by our Judiciary in an actual court of law, which is what would be convened if the President refused to vacate his office.

You don't have to believe anything I just stated and are free to argue over the details of it endlessly, but none of that will change how our legal system actually works.

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#96 2019-12-22 17:02:23

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,180

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

The President has the right to deny transfer of American money to foreign entities any time he believes those entities are corrupt or have used American money for illegal purposes.  Your Democrats' own former Vice President Biden bragged about threatening to refuse transfer of American money to Ukraine if their prosecutor didn't stop investigating the suspected criminal enterprise that his son was being paid by.  Despite your caterwauling about the fact that the gravy train of kickbacks in the form of foreign money for your Democrats is coming to an end in some small way, they were never entitled to that money.  If you want to help end the corruption, then stop carrying water for criminals who are abusing their offices for personal gain.

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#97 2019-12-23 18:34:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

House counsel suggests Trump could be impeached again

A second impeachment could be necessary if the House uncovers new evidence that Trump attempted to obstruct investigations of his conduct. That McGahn’s testimony could become crucial evidence in the upcoming Senate trial as well as for the Mueller probe.

Republicans are leaving the House at a record pace. Why?

So far this year, 22 Republicans in the U.S. House have announced that they will not run for reelection next November. Term limits, either self-imposed or due to House GOP rules, has also been a pattern amongst retirees.

Tulsi Gabbard Says Donald Trump Is 'Unfit to Serve' After President Commends Her For Voting 'Present' on Impeachment for casting a neutral vote

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#98 2019-12-25 20:58:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Awaken Alaska Senator 'Disturbed' by McConnell Position on Impeachment Trial

Republicans hold 53 seats in the Senate, where 51 votes are needed to pass a set of rules for the Trump trial. 
A two-thirds majority vote of the Senate would be needed for a conviction.

Murkowski ‘Disturbed’ by McConnell’s Senate Impeachment Strategy

Moderate GOP senator criticizes majority leader’s efforts as improperly ‘being hand-in-glove with the defense’

Then there is the Merits and perils of a secret impeachment vote in the Senate seems, 30 or more Republican senators would find the president’s dealings with Ukraine violated the Constitution.

With the chances Democrats could impeach Trump twice? They might have to. given enough rope he will...Of course the second shoe is coming in the next election with U.S. Cybercom contemplates information warfare to counter Russian interference in 2020 election

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#99 2019-12-28 18:54:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

I am under the belief that a subpeoena means something and for
Joe Biden wouldn't comply with subpoena in Trump's impeachment means he has just as much as Trump does to hide from the truth.

Go testify and be done with it....

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#100 2019-12-30 13:20:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,796

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Now Biden says that he will comply...good for him but its still egg on the face....

strong arm tactics as Pompeo to Visit Ukraine as Senate Weighs Impeachment Trial

Then we hear about Rudy Giuliani reportedly defied White House policy to make a back-channel call to oust Venezuela's President

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