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#26 2019-09-29 19:50:33

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

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#27 2019-10-01 23:20:08

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

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#28 2019-10-02 02:40:33

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,295
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Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

So, just like the last time a President was impeached.

We'll see what this whistleblower has to say when they're subpoenaed. It's their testimony that the whole case rests upon, so they'll have to testify before Congress... and reveal their identity.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#29 2019-10-02 17:32:58

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Right now Trump is threatening, witness tampering and more with regards to all of the requests for related information via subpoena which is another form of obstruction. Trump’s threats to unmask the person and intimation that violence is the appropriate response to a “spy.” Democrats are not going to go to the bother of voting to hold witnesses in contempt or even going to court to seek enforcement of the subpoenas. That proved to be a huge waste of time in the context of the House Judiciary Committee’s investigations, in large part because the committee lacks an enforcement mechanism.  Democrats would surely like all the information they are seeking, but frankly they have the key evidence that Trump pressured a foreign power to interfere in our elections and his own words threatening the whistleblower. Democrats can therefore receive refusals to respond in stride and inform the administration that this constitutes obstruction.
Trump used a baseless Biden claim to pressure Ukraine. That's corrupt. President Donald Trump has a thing for conspiracy theories. A conspiracy theory takes a few well-known facts and tries to create a colorful story by filling in the “gaps” with wild speculations. But Trump's "theory” couples made-up “facts” with nonsensical leaps of “logic.” It makes no sense even if you assume the made-up parts are true.
President Trump and a cadre of GOP lawmakers are seizing on a report focused on the whisteblower's actions before filing a complaint on the president's dealings with Ukraine, claiming that it undermines House Democrats' formal impeachment inquiry. A fair assessment is If Trump Goes Down, He’s Taking Everyone With Him.
Trump’s false claim that the rules for whistleblowers were recently changed stretched the claim even further into a Four-Pinocchio statement.
AAC4MKh.img?h=38&w=300&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

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#30 2019-10-03 20:38:22

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Now we are finding out that President Donald Trump was calling on China to probe former Vice President Joe Biden. The president is already ensnarled in an impeachment investigation over his request for Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son Hunter. First it was the Ukraine and now Trump has also raised accusations of corruption over Hunter Biden’s partnership with a Chinese private equity fund.

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#31 2019-10-03 20:54:23

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,586

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

If former Vice President Biden wasn't bragging about strong-arming foreign prosecutors in public to stop investigating the criminal activities of the organizations his son was involved with, then there wouldn't be any investigation.  The old gaffe master just couldn't keep his mouth shut about breaking the law.  As a result, President Trump, being someone who believes that laws apply equally to both Democrats and Republicans, is investigating our former VP's criminal activities while in office.

Weren't the Democrats arguing mere months ago that every Presidential candidate should be thoroughly investigated?

Now you don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot?

Cry me a river.

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#32 2019-10-03 21:26:33

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Biden is not getting my vote any ways and neither will Trump....

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#33 2019-10-03 21:48:33

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,586

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

If you're not voting for former Vice President Biden or President Trump, then is it full-on socialism that you're voting for?

Because that's the only thing that the rest of the field of Democrat candidates are offering.

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#34 2019-10-03 22:57:09

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

The Republican party counter part is the Tea party is equivalent to the Democrats appearing to have Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) both of which do not make the only choices for either party....I am woindering what a single party candidate should be viewed as ?
not really....

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … de/582598/

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-america … ist-ran-as

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/n … cna1054406
I guess just because Bernie is a leftist that makes the lead people the reason for labeling the party socialists but there are progressives, right extremists, conservatives ect...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/02/why-and … alism.html

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#35 2019-10-04 18:34:25

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,586

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

Bernie described himself as a socialist, rather than a leftist or a progressive or a Democrat.  Those are his own words on national TV, repeated by him again and again and again in his speeches and talking points.

When people tell you who they are, what they stand for, and what they value, do you ever listen to them and take them at their word?

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#36 2019-10-06 14:24:53

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

A top CIA lawyer attempted to make a criminal referral to the Justice Department weeks ago based on allegations made in the recently released whistleblower complaint, While that timeline and the CIA general counsel's contact with the DOJ has been previously disclosed, it has not been reported that the CIA's top lawyer intended her call to be a criminal referral about the president’s conduct, acting under rules set forth in a memo governing how intelligence agencies should report allegations of federal crimes....oh I forgot we need that in writing form triplicate so as to have something to copy...
A second claim under a laywer with more clients seems to have also arisen from this illegal activity...

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#37 2019-10-06 21:20:41

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

The obstructionist is in full stride as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vows to stop any Democratic push for impeachment in a social media campaign ad that he's using as a platform to raise campaign which goes against the senat obligation to do what needs to be done when it happens. There are also reports of other whistle blowers for a lawyer which is representing one as well as one from the IRS has also started to be leaked...

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#38 2019-10-06 22:21:23

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,586

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

SpaceNut,

Pelosi it too chicken to even take a vote on impeachment in the House, so what she's really doing is wasting the American people's time, unless they voted for her and her entire political party to do nothing but whine, cry, kick, and scream about the results of the last election.

Please relay this message to Speaker Pelosi for the rest of us who are interested in keeping America moving forward:

Dear Nancy,

The 2016 Presidential election is over.  Sorry it didn't go your way.  Better luck next time.

Here's why you lost:
1. Your party's policies were ruining America economically.
2. Your messaging was terrible.
3. Your candidate was a crook who was so corrupt that the American people grew tired of her.

Do's:
1. Try formulating some economic policies that won't destroy America.
2. Try coming up with some messaging about how you're going to do a better job next time.  Your party didn't do such a great job last time, and President Trump was the messenger sent by the American people to tell you that.
3. Try putting forward a candidate who isn't a whack job or a crook.

Don'ts:
1. Stop using politics to polarize every stupid little aspect of life.  Many of us are really tired of that.
2. Stop supporting the agendas of the off-the-map people within your party.
3. Stop buying into your own BS.  Remove your head from your echo chamber every so often just to hear the message that comes back.  That's a big part of why you lost the last election.

Your party might want to think about putting forward some actual policies and legislation that are good for Americans, or you're gonna lose in 2020 as well.  Please note that "I hate Trump" is not an actual governance policy- it's a political message, a childish temper tantrum, and one that doesn't resonate with enough Americans to win an election.

Sincerely,
The Rest of Us

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#39 2019-10-07 16:56:58

Calliban
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From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 485

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Kbd512, The outcome of the next election will depend largely upon whether the US is in recession or not.  If a recession is avoided before November 2020, then Trump will almost certainly enjoy four more years.  If not, then he is toast and the next US president will probably be Elizabeth Warren.

James Howard Kunstler has written an excellent piece that sums up the disgust that many people feel towards a left-wing political system that has lost its way the world over.

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/a-hard-rain/

If you want a good picture of where the Dems want to take America, take a look over the pond at the UK.  A country without a written constitution, in which a wrong word can land you in prison.  The native population are being diluted into minority status, by an influx of a million third world immigrants every year.  Voice too much dissent and you may find yourself on a police watchlist.  That's assuming that Britain's de facto secret police force, the 'Terror Police' don't decide to break in your door in the middle of the night and bundle you into the back of a van.  These things really do happen in Britain.  And it is only the US constitution that prevents similar things happening there too.

Last edited by Calliban (2019-10-07 17:03:16)


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#40 2019-10-08 03:08:51

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,295
Website

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

A constitution is worthless if the people responsible for arbitrating constitutionality are following their whims.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#41 2019-10-08 06:10:07

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,101

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

For Terraformer re #41 ...

Your comment in this post reminded me of (multiple) science fiction stories which explore the theme of generation ships, and the risk that the mission will be forgotten by generations which come along after those who  were present at launch are long gone.

It seems to me that the United States (where i reside) has a fairly lackadaisical attitude toward education of new generations.  Education in civics is an option (as I understand the situation), and education in general seems to be an afterthought for busy people who have civic responsibility as an add-on to their primary activities.

I don't remember ANYONE (at any time) laying out a concept for education of me as an individual.  It seems clear (as I look back) that efforts were made to try to put me (and my brother) in the best schools my parents could afford.

Any community would benefit over the long run, if each new individual were not only provided an opportunity to gain an education, but ** expected ** to achieve as much as possible. 

Testing is a way to measure a small subset of material that is thought to be needed to measure a complex body of knowledge. 

There is observably a strong resistance to testing.

In designing a community which can be hoped to succeed over multiple generations on Mars (or away from Earth in general) it seems to me that the helter-skelter disorganized mess I think I am seeing around me here on Earth needs to be left behind.

The young residents of Hong Kong, who are protesting the impending removal of their English freedoms are a symptom of the system that the Chinese have been developing for thousands of years.  Apparently for individuals who grow up in the Chinese system, it is alright.  The regimentation of education, and the pursuit of excellence for every individual to the extend possible, seem (to me at least) to address the problem of mission drift.

I am surmising that a generation ship organized by the Chinese would NOT drift far from the original concepts in place at the time of launch.

Getting back to your post #41 .... If the United States (or any nation with a constitution) wanted (collectively) to insure its survival, it would seem an elementary expectation that every citizen would be expected to have studied the document in sufficient detail to be able to recall the gist of each element as situations come up in daily life.

I have no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect that the vast majority of individuals in the native born population have NOT even read the Constitution, let alone studied it in detail.  The process has been working for a couple of hundred years, so why worry about it?

The answer is upon us.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-10-08 06:18:23)

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#42 2019-10-08 16:58:35

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

The back to basics of high school and really no need for college in much of the country has lead to many schools cutting cost in what is the area of arts which includes music, art class, civics, history in any relation and much more as these are not needed to survive once leaving school to go work.

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#44 2019-10-11 17:36:37

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/10 … -timeline/

The band wagon is still growing as Larry Hogan Now Backs Impeachment Inquiry
Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) publicly expressed support for the impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump, joining a small but growing number of Republicans breaking from the party’s mostly unwavering support of the president.

With some even after they were told do not testify they are going to do what they are supposed to do...
Gordon Sondland to Testify Under Subpoena Next Week

Trump Pressed for Ukraine Envoy's Removal, She Tells Lawmakers

White House accidentally sends Ukraine talking points to Democrats again

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#45 2019-10-12 17:21:47

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

under investigation Rudy Giuliani's role in Ukraine's investigation of Joe Biden

Rudolph W. Giuliani, one of President Trump’s personal lawyers, said his efforts to push for investigations in Ukraine originated with his legal defense of Mr. Trump. for collusion dirt of an opponent...

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#46 2019-10-13 17:40:32

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Trump asks, as Biden’s son promises not to work with foreign companies if father wins presidency in 2020 Hunter Biden to Resign From Board of Chinese Private-Equity Firm

So Gordon Sondland is reportedly backing away from President Donald Trump's "no quid pro quo" characterization of his text conversations but turns around and is in denial of what he was told to do Gordon Sondland will tell lawmakers he doesn't know whether Trump was being truthful when he denied the quid pro quo

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#47 2019-10-17 19:07:41

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Another is to resign Energy Secretary Rick Perry To Resign

Energy Secretary Rick Perry is expected to announce his resignation from the administration by the end of November, according to three people familiar with his plans. 
The report of Perry's expected resignation comes days after the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee sent questions to Perry related to his travel to Ukraine amid scrutiny

Alleged co-conspirators of Giuliani associates plead not guilty in conspiracy case

Two men charged in a campaign finance case involving business associates of Rudolph W. Giuliani to make illegal campaign contributions.

Gordon Sondland, the ambassador in Brussels since July 2018 and a major Trump donor, arrived on Capitol Hill Thursday morning for a closed-door session before the three House committees

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#48 2019-10-18 11:50:21

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,032
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Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

The process is clear:  continue the impeachment inquiry to discover facts.  If warranted by those discoveries,  then start formal impeachment proceedings that result in a full House vote on Articles of Impeachment. 

Myself,  I would include as scope the documented behaviors from the Mueller report,  plus all the other behaviors seen in public by the public already.  There's a great deal of scope there.

The impeachment inquiry and the impeachment proceeding are not the same thing,  despite the claims of Trump and his defenders. 

If such Article of Impeachment are passed by the full House,  then the Senate is Constitutionally obligated to conduct the trial,  no exceptions.  This is a trial presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,  not the VP or Mitch McConnell.  The Senators serve as the jurors.  That's what the Constitution says.

The standards for guilt or acquittal are NOT defined to be those as used in the federal courts.  It was recognized from the beginning that impeachment proceedings and impeachment trials are much more about politics and the fundamental good of the people,  than about fine points of law. 

Doesn't matter any more how all this got started.  It is in process,  and for the good of the people,  must be continued to its proper conclusion,  if any.  Let the chips fall where they may. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-10-18 11:54:46)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#49 2019-10-18 15:18:44

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 485

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

GW, regardless of whether you personally like Trump or not, is it really in a America's best interest to see the opposition tie up a sitting president with constant spurious allegations in an attempt to force him out of office?  The man does have a job to do.  He was elected to do it.  If he fails to do it, you suffer.

The Mueller investigation dominated his first term and it ended up finding nothing because the allegations it was investigating, were smears raised by Trump's opponents.  Hillary Clinton accused Trump of doing exactly what she had been doing; taking money from the Russians in exchange for political favours.  Why is this woman not in prison?


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#50 2019-10-18 17:02:16

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,032
Website

Re: Trump’s Lawyers Argue He Can't Be Impeached Because He Was Not Elected

Mueller did not find "nothing".  Mueller issued no indictments.  There's a difference. 

I read the Mueller report for myself.  It DID find a lot of things.  And much more.  I'm just glad to see ALL of these investigations going on.

Like Mr. Brennan (who worked in the security-related intelligence business;  I did not,  I worked in the security-classified weapons business),  I have seen on live TV behaviors by Mr. Trump that rated the word "treasonous" at Helsinki.  And since.

All of that being said,  note that I said NOT ONE WORD about investigations of other misdeeds by other people! 

There's plenty to go around,  such as classified emails on a an unclassified server (which is not just Clinton,  but Secretaries of State going back multiple administrations of both parties,  at the very least).  Congress itself is one of the biggest leaks of classified data I have ever seen (and by "Congress" I mean BOTH the House and the Senate).

Let's just say that my recommendation is "dare trust no one in DC".  I certainly don't. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-10-18 17:05:11)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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