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#26 2019-08-18 21:57:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

https://www.engadget.com/2019/08/18/tes … l-rentals/

Elon Musk argued that it's still better to buy. You should still save money versus relying solely on the electrical grid, though. While the gains are only modest in New Jersey (between $20 to $180 per year), you could save as much as $650 per year in California.
Purchases could make more sense, too. Musk has touted lower pricing, for a start. And while that still makes it expensive, the selection page at least makes things simple. You choose between small, medium and large panel arrays that cost $7,049, $14,098 and $21,147 respectively. A size guide is available if you're not sure how much you need in your given state.

https://www.tesla.com/energy/design


https://news.energysage.com/tesla-solar … -shingles/

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#27 2019-08-18 22:22:33

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,124

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

SpaceNut,

A dollar is a dollar.  Unless you give money to companies out of charity, it makes sense to keep as much of your money in your pocket as you can.  Although I give money to charity, I don't consider electric utility providers to be charitable organizations.  When the price of solar panels comes down to something approaching a major appliance, their use will be ubiquitous.  As always, their installation at the point of use makes far greater economic sense than paying for massive farms that consume real estate and cost more money than what they replaced.

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#28 2019-09-28 16:43:29

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

https://news.energysage.com/hanwha-q-ce … te-review/

Most Hanwha Q CELLS systems are typically priced between $2.50 and $3.28 per watt, which makes Q CELLS one of the best values on the market for home solar. This means that, for an average 6 kW system, your gross cost (before you subtract any tax credits or other incentives) would be anywhere from $15,000 to $19,680. Additionally, most homeowners end up paying much less than the total gross cost. With the 30 percent federal tax credit for solar, which everyone is eligible for, a 6 kW system with Hanwha Q CELLS would cost anywhere from $10,500 to $13,776.

Solar panels, like other electronic equipment, perform better when they are kept cool (ideally around 25° C/77° F). The temperature coefficient tells you how much your panel’s performance will change during hot sunny summer days.

For every degree above 25° C (77° F), your solar panel’s electricity production will decrease by its temperature coefficient. For example, the Q CELLS Q.POWER-G5 280 panel has a temperature coefficient of -0.4%/°C. This means that, if the panel’s temperature increases by one degree from 25° C (77° F) to 26° C (79° F), its electricity production will decrease by 0.4%. If its temperature increases all the way to 35° C (95° F), electricity production will reduce by 4%.

300 w to 400 w panels with lots of data for each size plus more

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#29 2019-09-28 21:48:12

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,757
Website

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

At grid scale,  wind power is already cheaper than coal, and competitive with natural gas.  Arguing about subsidies for wind (or solar) is irrelevant,  since fossil fuels also get massive direct and indirect subsidies.  Oil has for near 150 years. 

Solar is becoming competitive with natural gas,  but is not quite there yet.  But it will.  That's grid-scale solar,  not home solar. 

Both of these renewables are not so limited by cost-competitiveness,  but by the intermittency that they inherently suffer.  That characteristic is incompatible with "electricity 24/7 no matter what".  THAT is what limits their application to no more than about 20% of your electric power source mix.   The EU has already found out this for us.

Solve the intermittency problem,  and these sources can,  and will,  out-compete fossil fuels for electricity generation,  to near 100% of the source mix.  And on a shorter time scale than anyone believes currently.  Market-based solutions like that reflect the power of the free market,  the most productive creator of things ever devised by man,  bar none.

It is special interest monies buying congresspersons and bureaucrats that has prevented a "Manhattan Project" effort to solve that intermittency problem.  Relying on the interregional connectivity of the grid to transfer power from one region to another is ineffective,  because transmission losses approach 50%. 

The fix for the intermittency problem is some kind of grid-scale energy storage,  integrated as a part of every solar or wind farm project.  It is crucial to do that "Manhattan Project"-scale effort for that grid-scale storage means,  so that we can deploy that technology on a time scale of about 5 years.

That need for a grid-scale storage solution has been known since I was a college student half a century ago.  There was and is no excuse for the delay doing this,  especially since feasible technical solutions are now known. 

I suggest the so-called "flow battery",  with due allowance for the choice of chemicals such that spills are not catastrophic.  That kind of technology seems scalable to the very largest plant sizes. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#30 2019-09-29 15:09:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Build a better battery for wind and solar storage, and the energy sector will beat a path to your door
As demand for renewable electricity surges, so too does demand for efficient, safe and sustainable storage. Li-ion batteries are commonly used in consumer electronics and EVs, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re the best option for storing electricity in a renewable energy–dependent grid.
If course the flow battery is just saving the charge in a liquid that is moved from storage tanks to the plates as we cause and then back out to holding once more.

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#31 2019-10-26 15:08:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Third times a charm as Tesla Has a New Solar Roof—and Musk Says This One Will Work Elon Musk revealed Version 3.0 of the Solar Glass Roof

The new roof design will cost around $42,500 for a 2,000-square-foot roof with 10kW of solar

Well to shingle and lay down new sheathing ect cost a decade ago $6,000 if I had someone do it but cut that in half for DYI so thats a bit pricey to make it with this new solar collecting one. Only half of it would be in the sun for collecting as the other half would be facing away from the sun....

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#32 2019-10-26 16:19:24

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,368

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

I was thinking today, regarding the power grid shutdown in California,  that must be quite a strong selling point for people in areas of high fire risk, that you don't have to rely on power grids.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#33 2019-10-26 16:40:35

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

From some of the recent fires there is indication that the sparks which ignited the fires were caused by or from parts of the grid which had defects.

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#34 2019-10-26 17:34:47

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,757
Website

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

There is a big difference between grid-scale renewables,  and home-scale renewables.  Too few understand that.

Most of the impediments are bureaucratic for home scale.  These vary from impossible specifications for components,  to idiotic subsidy requirements.

The best mix is really rooftop solar PV with a windcharger as part of the system.  Rooftop solar thermal has been a paying proposition for some decades,  but it just cannot practically do air conditioning.  Yeah,  there's been a heat-based airconditioner system for many decades,  but its EER is rather low by today's standards.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#35 2019-10-26 18:21:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Speaking of fire for the home is a concern for the fire departments that must battle a blaze with solar panels on the roof as these are toxic and can be a electrical hazard to the firement that are fighting the fire. Many states are requiring training for fighting these types of fires. Planning of solar structures are also getting revamped to handle the safety issue for fire fighting as well.

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#36 2019-10-27 19:18:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Found an old topic A Better Solar Cell which described the topology of materials to be used.

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#37 2019-11-23 20:32:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

State keeps an eye on solar companies

The complaints of contracts with clauses that are harming the rights of the people getting solar panels installed and getting power from array companies selling the power are on the rise.

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#38 2019-11-27 16:30:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

For those still interested in solar for energy in whole or part.


12 solar panels at $130 each: $1656 (a total of 3600 watts at 46 cents per watt)
    12 Optimizer modules (which increase power output during partial shade): $650
    One SolarEdge 6 kW Inverter (converts the DC from the panels to AC for the grid): $1102
    Various brackets, mounting racks, bolts, and wiring stuff: $460

So my total cost, due to the very good luck of having a friend who is both a dedicated Mustachian and the owner of a booming solar company, was $3900.

That’s the best case, but even after you add normal profit margins plus a 30% tariff that The Donald recently levied on solar panels (and remember the panels are thankfully only half the cost of the system), you can still buy a similar Complete kit for $5000 or so.

https://www.gogreensolar.com/products/3 … e-inverter

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#39 2019-12-26 11:43:38

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

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#40 2020-01-09 19:17:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Here is a resource article on Going Green On A Budget

"We can’t all afford a heat pump, EV, or solar panels, but we can still cut our carbon footprints and save money at the same time, through changing a few habits."

Lots of hints to save your green

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#41 2020-01-17 21:29:39

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo signed an executive order on Friday aiming for renewable energy to provide all of the state's electricity by 2030 to fight climate change.

http://www.governor.ri.gov/newsroom/orders/

With the order, Rhode Island joins several other states that have set 100% clean energy goals, including Hawaii, California, New Mexico, Maine, New York, Washington and Virginia, according to Environment America, an environmental group advocating the country produce all of its energy from clean and renewable energy.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rhode-is … 41154.html

http://www.governor.ri.gov/documents/or … -20-01.pdf

Not much in the order as to who, how to gain the energy from renewable sources that you own.

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#42 2020-01-18 07:10:56

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,677

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

For SpaceNut re #41

Following up on a related post in another topic ... Since your state has not yet published a policy along the lines proposed by Governor Raimondo, you (as a citizen) have a (very small) chance of influencing what your state does.

Before you take action to contact your representatives (I'm not sure how your state is organized), you have this forum available to explore options that might be worth considering.  To start with, do you think 2030 is achievable? 

2030 is VERY difficult to imagine in the stodgy state where I live.  Legislators here are still stuck in the 19th century, and that with gusto.

I'm pondering if they would go for iron, however.  That has just the 19th century flavor that might appeal to them.

(th)

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#43 2020-01-18 21:36:24

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

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#44 2020-01-19 21:51:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

kbd512 wrote:

If solar is only 2 cents per kWh, but people paying for solar here in Texas, land of unrelenting Sun, are actually paying 12 cents or more per kWh and I'm now paying 6 cents per kWh using natural gas, then how do you explain that?

I can say we are both on the same page as we are being held hostage to the grid companies. The solar should be causing the grid to drop in prices but that is not happening even with solar array farms popping up.

https://www.eversource.com/Content
https://www.eversource.com/content/gene … generation
https://www.eversource.com/content/gene … ean-energy   2030 carbon nuetral
https://www.eversource.com/content/gene … generation

Today, our solar portfolio can power more than 11,000 homes, saving nearly 190 metric tons of carbon emissions per year. That’s the equivalent of taking more than 7,000 cars off the road.

https://www.eversource.com/content/nh/r … st-benefit

All solar panel energy systems are designed to save you money. Your solar savings will depend on where you live, how much energy you use and which financing options you choose. Eversource and EnergySage are here to ensure you understand all these factors and choose the system best suited to your unique situation.

good laugh....

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#45 2020-01-19 22:32:38

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

my monthly bill is typically 130 (9 months) but it winter it can climb to 300 (3 months) =1309 + 900 = 2209 paid yearly * 20 = 44,180

https://www.energysage.com/solar-panels … eversource

Solar Data Explorer: Strafford County, NH
    2019 cost for a 5 kW system
Out-of-pocket cost       $13,642 – $18,457   /20 = 682.10 - 922.85
Net 20-year savings       $28,670 – $38,789   /20 = 1,433.50 - 1,939.45
Payback period       7.9 – 10.7 years
Electricity bill offset       80 – 108 %

Solar installation costs do not include the 26% Federal Investment Tax Credit or local incentives.

https://www.energysage.com/solar/cost-b … eversource

So a large system is required for the net metering to pay me for the system being installed if nothing changed over a 20 year span of time.
Of course this is not accounting for the change in my property taxes as many are now including this as property....

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#46 2020-01-19 23:06:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

I just went through the calculator and used 200 a month average bill for my location.

It is suggesting a 8.3 kw system of high efficiency panels as indicated by my smaller roof surface.
It also suggests for a cash buy that 20,000 would be paid back in just 7.5 years. for a 43,000 saving during a 20 yr cycle
It also calculated a zero down loan as with imediate payback for the 20 yr cycle saving 32,000
Both indicate a 3% rise in property values

your electricity needs with 530 sq. ft. of sunny roof space
Save 26% or more with Federal & State Incentives

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#47 2020-01-20 13:19:39

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Not having the cash on hand and not wanting a long term loan its off to other short term improvements to try. The entry way and cellar could use solar as the sensor for motion would be with the light and the panels would be mounted to get the most out of the sun that I have.

Trying another solar led sensed light assebly to see if its going to perform as required.
111022f5acb44f318cd6fd5f5134b0f0.jpg

This Solar LED Security Light features super-bright LEDs, a lithium-ion battery, smart controller with PIR motion sensor for motion detection up to 25 feet, and a high-efficiency solar panel. Light will illuminate after dusk when motion is detected. 500 Lumens
Solar Panel with 9.8 ft. of wire
3.7V 1200 mAh Lithium-Ion battery
25 ft. Detection Distance
120 Degree Detection Range
Delay Time: 30 seconds
Warm White 3000k LED

To place the solar panel farther away one needs wire, wirenuts, wire cutter plus stripper and stagger cutting to keep polarity correct for reconnection after adding in the wire to lengthen for the locations of each piece. The LED  section containing the sensor and batteries.
The solar array panel is thin film on glass. With the color of the light is yellow and not really what I had expected.

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#48 2020-01-20 18:28:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,471

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

First test was today on a bright sunny day. Placed it out at 9am and pulled it back in at 4pm with it angled and move through out the day to get the most out of charging. Brought it in and while the place is near constant motion as to keep in on the most it only lasted 3.5 hrs of time before its did not have any charge to make it come back on with motion.
That said for how it could be used in basement rooms which have very little traffic it would be fine but for an upstairs room where people are it fails for what would be evening hours until you go to sleep which is usually 11pm. It would not work out as well for the entry way for lighting as its just not enough on time.
Summer will not give all that much more for hours of operation as the angle or window that the sun hits the area is only a 90' slice of open sky.

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#49 2020-01-20 18:47:12

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,677

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Thanks for these reports of real world experiments, SpaceNut!

There is room in the forum flow for more real world reports by members to accompany the variety of other kinds of reports or analysis, or prediction, or comments.

SearchTerm:SolarPoweredLight

(th)

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