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louis

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2008-03-24

Posts: 7,208

Rockets compared

Quite a nice vid for those of us who struggle with the rocket equation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD1_UdW4qqQ

Is the SLS really going to be ready for 2020?

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Oldfart1939

Member

Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,384

Re: Rockets compared

Nice vid but there is only one of these currently siting on a launch pad as we speak here: Falcon Heavy. Blue Origin and the SLS are both at least 2 years away. The BFR is still hypothetical, and I have a strong hunch that it will again undergo a bit of shrinkage--downsizing if you prefer. There are several factors in my estimate, one of which is construction time. How long have they been building the SLS rocket? I suspect SpaceX could build BOTH the Falcon X AND a BFR in the same time as ULA has taken to get a not-yet-flyable SLS not quite to the launch pad. I'd wager Jeff Bezos will have a new Glenn ready before the SLS ever flies.

RobS

Banned

From: South Bend, IN

Registered: 2002-01-15

Posts: 1,701

Website

Re: Rockets compared

Probably, but I'm inclined to say "who cares?" because it'll be too expensive to use more than once or twice. The first version of SLS will put 70 tonnes in orbit and will cost something like 1 to 2 billion per launch (I don't think anyone knows). The Falcon Heavy will put 63 tonnes into orbit for 90 million and will be largely reusable, will fly in the next month, and we may see 2 or 3 more launches of it this year (unless it blows up). If Musk wanted to, Falcon Heavy could exceed the SLS. By the time SLS flies, BFR development will be well underway.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,866

Re: Rockets compared

once or twice a year is all that Nasa has for plans for flying the SLS which means only the biggest of missions are on the plate for its use.

I do think that the block 2 capability of 130mt will be pushed as the sls with just 70 mt block 1 is just to get going for flight hardware.

The timed delay for block 2 will be somewhere around 2024 which sort of sucks...

As for block 1 sls the likes of both Blue Origins replacement for atlas V and the Falcon Heavy would eat up of the payloads which would require the 70 mt range, so SLS block1 will not be used much at all.

Oldfart1939

Member

Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,384

Re: Rockets compared

As we have all stated before, the SLS is nothing than a workfare program for OldSpace (Boeing, ULA, and L-M). If Musk so desired, he could re-engine the Falcon Heavy second stage with a greatly uprated Raptor engine and increase the payloads to LEO.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,267

Re: Rockets compared

NASA SLS Moon Rocket Flight Software Readied for Artemis I Launch
https://scitechdaily.com/nasa-sls-moon- … -i-launch/
Elon Musk blasts Jeff Bezos, saying he has a 'full-time job filing lawsuits against SpaceX'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech … paceX.html
SpaceX successfully test fires Falcon-9 rocket ahead of Dragon cargo launch for NASA
https://www.livemint.com/science/news/s … 80559.html
Can Bezos and Branson Be Called Astronauts? It Depends Who You Ask.
https://space.so/video/en/scott-manley/ … more-13679

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,866

Re: Rockets compared

Seems the question of being able to build a rocket was harder even with reusing parts that were already designed for use as Nasa did what engineers always do they re-engineer them again.

The others are also off with delays for software and now hardware issues for Boeing.

The ULA engine replacement seems to be coming as the first stage is getting its test now.

The lunar lander seems practical based on the old apollo but where is the hardware testing build so as to see that its real?

The other blue origin is still working sub orbital joy rides while the rocket to obit looks like it will happen but its behind the curtail...

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,267

Re: Rockets compared

So far only 2 100 + ton have a record of flying the SLS and Saturn-V

Will failures be counted or will digital recording and history books in the far future even remember all of this stuff?

A Hindu news paper says the ISRO - Government of India will have commitment to manned flight and a space station.

There was a time when people even considered used of the Buran for Mars exploration. When people finally get there, they will build a society. We have discussed all kinds of politics on newmars, what would rule, Monarchy or Socialism or Capitalism or an AI government. There have also been discussion of 'Militarization Before Colonization' I was against this concept of guns on Mars but I have to admit maybe South Polar Exploration and Bases in Antarctica might not have been done without the US Navy. While the military are not the best people for science they sometimes produce people with amazing grit and discipline, they just get a job done. Theer are already two United States Space Force astronauts if the 'Space-Force' continues to grow at its current pace say 25% each year then soon it will be many times the size of NASA's, maybe they can colonize the solar system for humans? In another controversial time Von Braun had a good relationship with Kennedy, it is a pity that Elon Musk and the Joe Biden Kamala Harris admin do not get along as well as they could. I see a lot of speculation on the Chinese Heavy Lift, there will also be new Private Companies from China but I am unsure of what they will build and if they aim for the Moon or Mars or both.

The generation who built the Saturn V an American super heavy and Apollo are long retired, Russia is totally out of the game and its stunts and feats are from the Soviet era, the ESA does science but probably has too many bickering nations that do not have the backbone to commit to manned exploration. The new Chinese rocket would send 54,000 kg or 119,049.6 lbs 53.1 imperial tons into trans-lunar injection.The current LongMarch-5 are approximately 25,000 kg (55,000 lb) to low Earth orbit  and approximately 14,000 kg (31,000 lb) to geostationary transfer orbit. People say the USA and the West has slowed down, I don't think one single President is to blame for this, they probably could have been on Mars in the 90s so a lot of people have allowed other space agency to catch up.

The Soviets had many first, first Dog in Space, first Man in Space, first Woman in Space, first 'Space-Station' after the fall of the USSR they kept the USA flying when the Shuttle was lost but now there is Putin and Kazakhstan seized property of Roscosmos of Russia

videos

'The N-1: The Soviet Moon Rocket'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YscKBzvHBSw

Largest Rocket Explosion Ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gklVhRzkVqA

There are arguments over fuel and what might be used on the Moon or Mars, at one time they look at Dinitrogen tetroxide N2O4 and hydrazine N2H4, Kerosene Rocket Fuel and politically what is possibly wrong today, the Admin Hero of Diversity Hire and Socialist Labours, let's go out and riot for the criminal shot by Police they say! the Lives of Marxism Matters when fighting against Privilege and Bourgeoisie Capitalist Pig Riches!
in a ways does the politics of today share in common with crazy political eras of the past?
Government rivals denounced !!! autocratic, un- qualified and out of your dept it does not matter.

Astronautix on the failure
http://astronautix.com/n/n1.html
'Developed by Russia in the 1960's, was to be the Soviet Union's counterpart to the Saturn V.'

The N1's themselves were broken up in 1975 and the payload shrouds and tank bulkheads used as carports, storage sheds, and sun shelters around the cosmodrome. Today the N1 worker's city of apartment blocks is empty, and tumbleweeds grow among the N1 components at the abandoned recreation center. The launch pads are crumbling, the roof of the N1's horizontal assembly building has caved in. The desert slowly reclaiming the colossal works of the project. The rest is silence.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-19 10:38:11)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,267

Re: Rockets compared

Virgin Orbit lays off most employees

https://spacenews.com/virgin-orbit-lays … employees/

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,267

Re: Rockets compared

Ariane 6 unloaded in French Guiana
https://advanced-television.com/2024/02 … ch-guiana/

new 4-meter and 5m diameter reusable rockets in 2025 and 2026 respectively
https://www.chinanews.com.cn/gn/2024/03 … 4021.shtml