Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

Oldfart1939 · 2017-05-07 14:56:53

Some of the chemical process equipment manufacturers have skid mounted pilot plants which are custom built for space available requirements. All apparatus should be jacketed stainless steel with pharmaceutical grade glass lining.

louis · 2017-05-07 15:10:51

I agree with your observation...I am guessing then that cleansing of equipment will be a priority so that we don't end up with any unfortunate and unintended consequences from unexpected chemical reactions.

elderflower wrote:

We will need, I think, multipurpose manufacturing plant. These use fairly standard pressure vessels, stills, exchangers, pumps etc and can be reconfigured to meet the demands of a variety of processes. Of course some reactions need special items such as very high pressure vessels and exchangers and special pumps or compressors (eg ammonia manufacture), but a lot of things can be made in batches in reconfigurable plant using different reagents, catalysts and conditions.

elderflower · 2017-05-08 04:35:22

That's normal in Pharma industry, Louis. You get complete cleaning facilities on a skid or trolley which can do a lot of different cleaning processes. The cleaning protocols are developed for each service and demonstrated before the product is prepared.

louis · 2017-05-08 05:35:11

Good to know that this is a well established process. I guess part of the art of being an early Mars colonist will be to be good at disassembling machines for cleaning...a friend of mine had an awful lot of trouble just cleaning their coffee machine and I remember that once we used caraway seeds in a bread making machine and you just couldn't get rid of the smell - but for every problem there is a solution, in this case literally a cleaning solution. Reminds me...the first Mars colonists will want to take along a bread making machine I would think.

elderflower wrote:

That's normal in Pharma industry, Louis. You get complete cleaning facilities on a skid or trolley which can do a lot of different cleaning processes. The cleaning protocols are developed for each service and demonstrated before the product is prepared.

Last edited by louis (2017-05-08 09:07:19)

elderflower · 2017-05-08 06:01:57

Bread is going to be a real treat until they can get a wheat or rye crop to grow and ripen. Before that it will have to be made with imported earth flour. Hopefully yeast will survive the trip.

SpaceNut · 2017-05-08 21:06:41

No flour Bread...ok...

https://cookeatshare.com/popular/no-flour-bread-recipes

http://paleogrubs.com/bread-recipes

louis · 2017-05-09 03:34:41

Bean flour would probably be the easiest to produce hydroponically, before we tackle wheat...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR2Yk0hR0sw

[Not the right sort of bean but the following gives you an idea how it might look...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm1TwZCQWlM

SpaceNut wrote:

No flour Bread...ok...
https://cookeatshare.com/popular/no-flour-bread-recipes
http://paleogrubs.com/bread-recipes

elderflower · 2017-05-09 03:58:37

Have you tried it, SpaceNut?

Terraformer · 2017-05-09 04:28:39

What about potatoes? I'm sure we'll be able to come up with some kind of usable flour for bread using potatoes and beans.

elderflower · 2017-05-09 04:38:57

Or you could just eat them!
Western diets use large amounts of bread but diets of other cultures use far less. Depends on availability of suitable grains in particular agricultural set ups. Some tropical cultures used Yams or Taro, far Eastern areas used Rice, Millets were popular on desert margins and so on. You don't actually need bread. You do need starch and the Mars diet will be developed according to what will effectively grow and ripen.

Oldfart1939 · 2017-05-09 10:26:55

Easiest source of complex carbohydrates to grow is potatoes. Many varieties exist, and early experimental farming efforts will determine which will become the Mars spud. I'd be looking for the shortest growing season variety concurrent with weight of tuber produced. Sweet potatoes and Yams take longer, but have the additional benefit of Vitamin A production. Fastest growing source of complex carbohydrates is probably Turnips. Additional benefit is edible greens.

Terraformer · 2017-05-09 11:44:58

Well, my thinking with potato bread is to break up monotony. I know a lot can be done with potatoes (boil them, mash them, stick them in a stew), and there's also potato gnocci as a substitute for pasta, but they're also low density when it comes to calories. Perhaps we could remove most of the water before making gnocci, so we're not stuck eating 2kg of potato every day?

elderflower · 2017-05-09 12:47:49

Diet will have to be varied to avoid deficiencies. There's a neat rule for this: 20 different foods in a week, 30 in a fortnight.
Initial horticultural efforts will only supplement earth supplied rations. A lot of development will be needed to allow Mars grown crops to form the major part of the diet.

louis · 2017-05-09 14:23:21

We're back on one of our favourite topics! ....well here are some qucik growing food plants...

https://www.growthis.com/12-fastest-growing-vegetables/

We could have beans available for grinding into bean flour within 40-65...

That said, I think you can get dwarf wheat to grow in 60 days...[EDIT: sorry - draft buckwheat]

Last edited by louis (2017-05-09 15:49:29)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-09-15 15:51:28

Food is key, so internal farming will be a key industry.

Engineers are cooking up ways to grow fresh food in space
https://createdigital.org.au/engineers- … -in-space/

Space – pepper plants bloom in space
https://fintechzoom.com/fintech_news_sp … -in-space/

With the 3-D priniters we have machines that can weave cotton and wool, they can build machine parts and complex structures. In bio-science we now see a selling Cloned frankenstein meat? Bio-engineered animals?

In communications there will be a transmission of Science and Research and Elon Musk confirmed SpaceX in the future will provide internet between Earth and Mars

A new area of exploration is opening up, it is possible a nation will be first to put a village or town on Mars, or that Musk with his commerical and private company eventually reaches his goal and builds a city on Mars. The United States is the clear leader when it comes to space feats but we are unsure what China has, they have ambition. For now other companies like Blue Origin, Virgin Galactic seem to be happy with the sub-orbital tourism thing. The future, it could cover asteroid mining, opening the Moon and Mars to space tourism, and even full-size habitats in for scientific research and planetary habitats in outer space. Space Station may become commercial Manufactured products and SpaceX plans send tourism into far places and to host a trip around the Moon for Japanese billionaire Yusaku Maezawa ...Space Hotels and Space Casinos anyone?

Japanese scientists have 3D printed a square of lab-grown wagyu beef
https://newatlas.com/science/world-firs … eef-japan/

Could houses on Mars be built with astronaut blood, sweat and tears?
https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/m … and-tears/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-11-26 15:58:59

The dream in another thread?
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7030
Mars - a multi-billion dollar economy within 5 years

Adding some related discussion here

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10075

SpaceNut wrote:

The white paper indicates a need for a first landing of cargo is a trial 2024 to say we have a proof of landing concept if successful on the landing to give a boot strap of 2 rockets with a max payload to the surface upward of 300mT. That paper also concludes that a pre-prepared landing site is needed is required for sustainability.
There is no indication that the ship count per each mission launch window will increase in this white paper. Its first human mission starts with a crew of 10 - 20 but is not indicated when that should happen or how large each successive crew sizing will increase. That leaves 7 missions remaining after the first few to do the build up.

That leaves a priority of the above list for buildup with the most critical being required.
I believe these are the top priorities...
2. Agriculture - A full range of food crops will be produced: salad vegetables, grains, fruit, beans, pulses etc. No animal farming will yet be undertaken (meat is imported).
5. Construction - Using ISRU bricks, basalt, cement, concrete, glass, 3D printing techniques, Mars dust-sourced “rubber” and steel frames, the Mars settlement is able to construct its own habs for accommodation, farming and industry.
9. Energy - Mars now has a well developed energy sector based on PV power systems, solar reflectors,, chemical batteries, differential heat engines and methane/hydrogen production Virtually all elements of the energy system can now be produced with ISRU on Mars, although PV film is still being imported from Earth.
8. Electrical - The settlement is producing a range of chemical batteries, some of which are being used to power the Base Zone rovers and to even out power over a sol. The settlement is now able to produce cable – plastic covered copper wiring. Most copper wiring is being produced from recycled materials but some is being sourced from meteorites on the surface of Mars.
10. Food processing – Food processing is becoming a more important activity. Some chilled meals and prepared salads are being produced. Nearly all food processing is automated. Food is refrigerated, turned into powder form, and frozen.
11. Life Support - Life support (water, air and temperature control) is a key industry that generates income e.g. through sale to Universities, TV companies and space agencies.
15. Transport - Mars is now able to produce its own rovers rather than having to import them. Small pressurised Rovers are used to transfer from one hab to another with ease (it taking only five minutes to exit through air lock chambers. The vehicles are kept small in order that airlocks can be on a small scale as well. Longer range rovers use methane and oxygen as their power systems.
16. Water - Water is mined at large glaciers or ice deposits and transported in robot rovers to the Base where it is stored in shaded and regolith covered storage pits. Water recycling is a feature of nearly all processes.
Of course the remaining are the next tier of growth in that second 20 year as you continue to build up non returning crews.
1. Aerospace - Rocket hoppers and orbital rockets are now being produced. The base will have a dedicated Spaceport. A range of rocket fuels, such as LOX and methane will be produced.
3. Chemical industry – The community’s ability to process and manipulate a wide range of materials will be in place. The settlement can produce Mars ISRU feedstock for plastics. Very pure silicon can be produced for electronics, computers and PV panels.
4. Computers - The settlement is now able to produce basic computers which it is applying to life support systems.
6. Domestic goods - The settlement is able to produce refrigerators, freezers, ovens, cookers, hobs, plumbing parts, kitchen utensils, cooking ware, basic furniture, hygiene products (such as soap and toothpaste).
7. Education and research - An Earth-based University has established a Research Centre on Mars which is part of the base and forms an important part of the economy.
8. Electrical - The settlement is producing a range of chemical batteries, some of which are being used to power the Base Zone rovers and to even out power over a sol. The settlement is now able to produce cable – plastic covered copper wiring. Most copper wiring is being produced from recycled materials but some is being sourced from meteorites on the surface of Mars.
9. Energy - Mars now has a well developed energy sector based on PV power systems, solar reflectors,, chemical batteries, differential heat engines and methane/hydrogen production Virtually all elements of the energy system can now be produced with ISRU on Mars, although PV film is still being imported from Earth.
12. Metal industry - This is an important sector, producing steel supports for construction, steel tools for farming, steel bars and suspension springs for rovers. Steel is used to produce gas cylinders and gas tanks. Aluminium is used in construction of airlocks and pressure cabins.
13. Pharmaceuticals - This industry is at quite a primitive level. The community is only just beginning to produce basic medicines and other health products such as paracetamol, some vitamins and minerals.
14. Textiles - Basic clothing – cotton T shirts and trousers - are being produced. Plans are in place for production of Mars ISRU space suits.

and

50 years after...
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6180

By Louis

louis · 2021-11-26 18:48:00

My original post was written before the Starship concept was made public and so has been overtaken by events. However, there is plenty of relevant stuff in there.

louis · 2021-11-26 18:49:50

I'm not really a dreamer - it's Musk who dreams he can find a million people within 30 years who can happily emigrate to Mars!!

But there is no doubt in mind a multi-billion dollar economy will develop on Mars very quickly.

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

The dream in another thread?
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7030
Mars - a multi-billion dollar economy within 5 years

Adding some related discussion here
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10075
SpaceNut wrote:
The white paper indicates a need for a first landing of cargo is a trial 2024 to say we have a proof of landing concept if successful on the landing to give a boot strap of 2 rockets with a max payload to the surface upward of 300mT. That paper also concludes that a pre-prepared landing site is needed is required for sustainability.
There is no indication that the ship count per each mission launch window will increase in this white paper. Its first human mission starts with a crew of 10 - 20 but is not indicated when that should happen or how large each successive crew sizing will increase. That leaves 7 missions remaining after the first few to do the build up.

That leaves a priority of the above list for buildup with the most critical being required.
I believe these are the top priorities...
2. Agriculture - A full range of food crops will be produced: salad vegetables, grains, fruit, beans, pulses etc. No animal farming will yet be undertaken (meat is imported).
5. Construction - Using ISRU bricks, basalt, cement, concrete, glass, 3D printing techniques, Mars dust-sourced “rubber” and steel frames, the Mars settlement is able to construct its own habs for accommodation, farming and industry.
9. Energy - Mars now has a well developed energy sector based on PV power systems, solar reflectors,, chemical batteries, differential heat engines and methane/hydrogen production Virtually all elements of the energy system can now be produced with ISRU on Mars, although PV film is still being imported from Earth.
8. Electrical - The settlement is producing a range of chemical batteries, some of which are being used to power the Base Zone rovers and to even out power over a sol. The settlement is now able to produce cable – plastic covered copper wiring. Most copper wiring is being produced from recycled materials but some is being sourced from meteorites on the surface of Mars.
10. Food processing – Food processing is becoming a more important activity. Some chilled meals and prepared salads are being produced. Nearly all food processing is automated. Food is refrigerated, turned into powder form, and frozen.
11. Life Support - Life support (water, air and temperature control) is a key industry that generates income e.g. through sale to Universities, TV companies and space agencies.
15. Transport - Mars is now able to produce its own rovers rather than having to import them. Small pressurised Rovers are used to transfer from one hab to another with ease (it taking only five minutes to exit through air lock chambers. The vehicles are kept small in order that airlocks can be on a small scale as well. Longer range rovers use methane and oxygen as their power systems.
16. Water - Water is mined at large glaciers or ice deposits and transported in robot rovers to the Base where it is stored in shaded and regolith covered storage pits. Water recycling is a feature of nearly all processes.
Of course the remaining are the next tier of growth in that second 20 year as you continue to build up non returning crews.
1. Aerospace - Rocket hoppers and orbital rockets are now being produced. The base will have a dedicated Spaceport. A range of rocket fuels, such as LOX and methane will be produced.
3. Chemical industry – The community’s ability to process and manipulate a wide range of materials will be in place. The settlement can produce Mars ISRU feedstock for plastics. Very pure silicon can be produced for electronics, computers and PV panels.
4. Computers - The settlement is now able to produce basic computers which it is applying to life support systems.
6. Domestic goods - The settlement is able to produce refrigerators, freezers, ovens, cookers, hobs, plumbing parts, kitchen utensils, cooking ware, basic furniture, hygiene products (such as soap and toothpaste).
7. Education and research - An Earth-based University has established a Research Centre on Mars which is part of the base and forms an important part of the economy.
8. Electrical - The settlement is producing a range of chemical batteries, some of which are being used to power the Base Zone rovers and to even out power over a sol. The settlement is now able to produce cable – plastic covered copper wiring. Most copper wiring is being produced from recycled materials but some is being sourced from meteorites on the surface of Mars.
9. Energy - Mars now has a well developed energy sector based on PV power systems, solar reflectors,, chemical batteries, differential heat engines and methane/hydrogen production Virtually all elements of the energy system can now be produced with ISRU on Mars, although PV film is still being imported from Earth.
12. Metal industry - This is an important sector, producing steel supports for construction, steel tools for farming, steel bars and suspension springs for rovers. Steel is used to produce gas cylinders and gas tanks. Aluminium is used in construction of airlocks and pressure cabins.
13. Pharmaceuticals - This industry is at quite a primitive level. The community is only just beginning to produce basic medicines and other health products such as paracetamol, some vitamins and minerals.
14. Textiles - Basic clothing – cotton T shirts and trousers - are being produced. Plans are in place for production of Mars ISRU space suits.

and
50 years after...
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6180
By Louis

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-11-27 15:49:09

Is this green fusion thing a 'dream'?

A Green rocket with recycled plastic burning? Seems like it's a green trash burning startup that plans to soon use rockets in space
https://newatlas.com/space/nuclear-puls … id-rocket/
They describe themselves as a Nuclear fusion startup which now test fires plastic waste-powered rocket

A British company with dreams and aspirations around sustainable space travel they test-fired a rocket engine powered in part by plastic waste. Pulsar Fusion's hybrid rocket engine is part of a journey that also involves the development of nuclear fusion technology for high-speed propulsion, which could cut travel times to Mars in half?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-11-27 15:50:14)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-02 08:04:33

AI SpaceFactory - MARSHA - Our Vertical Martian Future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnrVV0w2jrE

Space Farms, Terraforming, Closed Cycle Farming and Zero-g/microgravity farming
https://www.combat-fishing.com/animatio … aform.html

A lot of digging and drilling and manufacture

Cleaning industry?

Dust is very fine and accumulates on solar panels, amongst other surfaces

There is a very thin layer of very fine, loose material on top of Mars’ soil. By using data from NASA’s Mars lander InSight, researchers been able to resolve an extremely thin layer of soil. – Soil on Mars behaves in peculiar ways, we need to understand that before we colonise Mars, says Axel Hagermann, Professor of Atmospheric Science at Luleå University of Technology and co-author of an article addressing the new findings. The surface was measured by one of the instruments on InSight, an infrared radiometer provided by the German Aerospace Agency DLR.

Robot Farms by Machine and artificial intelligence farmers?

Duckweed Lemna minor and Waterfern Azolla filiculoides grow on the surface of water.
https://web.archive.org/web/20070701234 … iac04.html

Bioregenerative life support on Mars will require more than your 'garden variety' crops. Some the features we should be looking for is rapid growth, low light requirements, wide pH range and high nutrition with minimal wastes. And the simpler the required infrastructure, the better.

Dr. Robert Zubrin: THE FUTURE OF HUMANITY ON MARS
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5G0acz … de83314fac

Smart Robots Target Valuable Metals With Sophisticated Lunar Mining Techniques
https://www.designnews.com/automation/s … techniques
Specifically, NASA has awarded researchers at the University of Arizona (UofA) $500,000 in funding to advance space-mining methods using robot swarms made from 3D-printed parts.

Million city on Mars as it would be seen from space
https://www.humanmars.net/2023/01/marti … space.html

A new hydroponics method could allow astronauts to farm on the moon
https://interestingengineering.com/inno … -farm-moon
Astronauts may soon be cultivating lunar farmland

Moving products from Callisto, Titan, the Asteroids, the Moon and Mars to re-supply each other?

Asteroids ESA Gaia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_X_0RikAPw

Dwarf planet Ceres is geologically alive
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie … -nasa-dawn

One idea to scrub CO2 from the breathing air is to use re-usable amine bead carbon dioxide scrubbers. At about 150 thousand feet of altitude (28 miles (45 km)) on Earth, the atmospheric pressure starts to be equivalent to the surface of Mars. there could be medical aspects, fire and rescue, a save building to deal with health issues and emergencies, AI robot-assisted surgery could one day be considered. There are estimations that sixteen feet (5 meters) of Mars regolith stops the same amount of radiation as Earth's atmosphere.

Mars habitat may use 40% argon, 40% nitrogen, and 20% oxygen. See also Argox, for the argon breathing gas mixture used in scuba diving
https://web.archive.org/web/20070724100 … iac02.html

ANU to support Aussie start-up in growing plants on the moon
https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/an … n-the-moon

Flashline Mars Arctic Research Station (FMARS) is the first of two simulated Mars habitats (or Mars Analog Research Stations) located on Devon Island, Nunavut, Canada, which is owned and operated by the Mars Society
https://web.archive.org/web/20101120064 … .html#more

NASA Speeds Up Quest to Beat China to Mining Metals on the Moon
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/federal-c … vancements

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-02 08:31:25)

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#26 2017-05-07 14:56:53

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

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Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

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Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#29 2017-05-08 05:35:11

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#30 2017-05-08 06:01:57

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#31 2017-05-08 21:06:41

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#32 2017-05-09 03:34:41

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#33 2017-05-09 03:58:37

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#34 2017-05-09 04:28:39

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#35 2017-05-09 04:38:57

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#36 2017-05-09 10:26:55

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#37 2017-05-09 11:44:58

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#38 2017-05-09 12:47:49

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#39 2017-05-09 14:23:21

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#40 2021-09-15 15:51:28

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#41 2021-11-26 15:58:59

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#42 2021-11-26 18:48:00

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

#43 2021-11-26 18:49:50

Re: Industrial Plan for Mars - the first 20 years.

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