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#1 2014-11-11 22:26:54

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,892

Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

I was looking to see what the ISS have for mission menus and here is the info...

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/ref … /food.html

Astronaut Menu Selection
Food evaluations are conducted approximately eight to nine months before the flight. During the food evaluation sessions, the astronaut is given the opportunity to sample a variety of foods and beverages available for flight. A pack of information is given to each astronaut to use in planning their personal preference menus. Included in the packet is a standard menu, training menu, past flight menus the astronaut has chosen, and the baseline shuttle food and beverage list.
Astronauts select their menu approximately five months before flight. The menus are analyzed for nutritional content by the Shuttle Dietitian and recommendations are made to correct any nutrient deficiencies based on the Recommended Dietary Allowances. The menus are then finalized and provided to the Flight Equipment Processing Contractor (FEPC) in Houston three months before launch. The FEPC processes, packages, and stows the food in the Shuttle lockers before being transferred to KSC.

Baseline Shuttle Food List

Beef, Dried (IM)
Beef Goulash (T)
Beef Pattie (R)
Beef Steak (I)
Beef Stroganoff w/Noodles (R)
Beef Tips w/Mushrooms (T)
Bread (FF)
Breakfast Roll (FF)
Brownies (NF)
Candy,

Coated Chocolates (NF)
Coated Peanuts (NF)
Gum (NF)
Life Savers (NF)
Cereal,
Bran Chex (R)
Cornflakes (R)
Granola (R)
Granola w/Blueberries (R)
Granola w/Raisins (R)
Grits w/Butter (R)
Oatmeal w/Brown Sugar (R)
Oatmeal w/Raisins (R)
Rice Krispies (R)
Cheddar Cheese Spread (T)
Chicken,
Chicken ala King (T)
Chicken Cacciatore (T)
Chicken Pattie (R)
Chicken Salad Spread (T)
Chicken, Sweet 'n Sour (R)
Chicken, Sweet 'n Sour (T)
Chicken, Teriyakl (R)
Chunky Chicken Stew (T)
Cookies,
Butter (NF)
Chocolate Covered (NF)
Shortbread (NF)
Crackers,
Butter (NF)
Graham (NF)
Eggs,
Scrambled (R)
Mexican Scrambled (R)
Seasoned Scrambled (R)
Frankfurters (T)
Fruit
Apple, Granny Smlth (FF)
Apple, Red Delicious (FF)
Applesauce (T)

Apricots, Dried (IM)
Banana (FF)
Cocktail (T)
Orange (FF)
Peach Ambrosia (R)
Peaches, Diced (T)
Peaches, Dried (IM)
Pears, Diced (T)
Pears, Dried (IM)
Pineapple (T)
Strawberries (R)

Trail Mix (IM)
Granola Bar (NF)
Ham (T)
Ham Salad Spread (T)

Jelly,
Apple (T)
Grape (T)

Macaroni & Cheese (R)
Meatballs in Spicy Tomato
Sauce (T)
Noodles and Chicken (R)
Nuts,

Almonds (NF)
Cashews (NF)
Macadamia (NF)
Peanuts (NF)
Trail Mix (IM)

Peanut Butter (T)
Potatoes au Gratin (R)

Puddings,
Banana (T)
Butterscotch (T)
Chocolate (T)
Tapioca (T)
Vanilla (T)

Rice and Chlcken (R)
Rice Pilaf (R)
Salmon (T)
Sausage Pattle (R)
Shrimp Cocktail (R)

Soups,
Chicken Consomme (R)
Mushroom (R)
Rice & Chlcken (R)

Spaghetti w/Meat Sauce (R)
Tortillas (FF)

Tuna,
Tuna (T)
Tuna Creole (T)
Tuna Salad Spread (T)

Turkey,
Turkey Salad Spread (T)
Turkey Tetrazini (R)

Vegetables
Asparagus (R)
Broccoli au Gratin (R)
Carrot Sticks (FF)
Cauliflower w/Cheese (R)
Celery Sticks (FF)
Green Beans & Broccoli (R)
Gr. Beans w/Mushrooms (R)

Italian (R)
Spinach, Creamed (R)
Tomatoes & Eggplant (T)

Yogurt,
Blueberry (T)
Peach (T)
Raspberry (T)
Strawberry (T)

Abbreviations
(FF) - Fresh Food
(IM) - Intermediate Moisture
(I) - Irradiated
(NF) - Natural Form
(R) - Rehydratable
(T) - Thermostabilized

Beverages (R)
Apple Cider
Cherry Drink w/A/S
Cocoa

Coffee
Black
w/A/S
w/Cream
w/Cream & A/S
w/Cream & Sugar
w/Sugar

Coffee(Decaffeinated),
Black
w/A/S
w/Cream
w/Cream & A/S
w/Cream & Sugar
w/Sugar

Coffee (Kona),
Black
w/A/S
w/Cream
w/Cream & A/S
w/Cream & Sugar
w/Sugar

Grape Drink
Grape Drink w/A/S
Grapefruit Drink

Instant Breakfast,
Chocolate
Strawberry
Vanilla

Lemonade Lemonade w/A/S
Lemon-Lime Drink
Orange Drink
Orange Drink w/A/S
Orange Juice
Orange-Grapefruit Drink
Orange-Mango Drink
Orange-Pineapple Drink
Peach-Apricot Drink
Pineapple Drink
Strawberry Drink

Tea,
Plain
w/A/S
w/Cream
w/Lemon
w/Lemon & A/S
w/Lemon & Sugar
w/Sugar

Tropical Punch
Tropical Punch w/A/S

Condiments
Catsup (T)
Mayonnaise (T)
Mustard (T)
Pepper (Liquid)
Salt (Liquid)
Tabasco Sauce (T)
Taco Sauce (T)

Abbreviations
A/S- Artificial Sweetener
(R) - Rehydratable
(T) - Thermostabilized


This is pobably not all that we wold want to Eat but lets try and make a reference list of what is needed from the garden.

Last edited by SpaceNut (2014-11-16 17:14:41)

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#2 2014-11-16 17:08:57

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,892

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Sorry for the title misdirect as it should read... Food for Thought, what does a Mars garden need to grow since we will need to focus on menu creation for the cycle of plant growth...

That said here are some of the older topics...
SpaceNut; Designing the best greenhouse demonstrator for Mars

SpaceNut; Mars first crew greenhouse

RobertDyck; Specific Crops for a permanent Mars settlement

RobertDyck; Greenhouse - hydroponics vs soil

Which includes now the much off topic (sort of no surprise) of indoor farming....

Last edited by SpaceNut (2014-11-16 18:45:10)

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#3 2014-11-16 17:41:10

SpaceNut
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Posts: 17,892

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

From the 3rd topic:

RobertDyck wrote:

Going through the list of ingredients for products from Yves Veggie, the guys who make soy products to replace meat.

Plants:
wheat
barley
soy
onion
guar
beet
sugar beet (handles cold growing conditions better than sugarcane)
garlic
lemon
tapioca (from the plant Cassava)
parsley
sesame
Irish moss (aka carrageenan moss) - carrageenan
potato
konjac
corn
pea
carrot
pear, apple, plum (only used for their Meatless Beef Burgers)
Locust bean (aka Carob tree) - replace with guar?
flax (source of omega-3)
black pepper (grows on a vine)

Minerals:
salt
dipotassium phosphate
dimagnesium phosphate
ferric orthophosphate
zinc oxide
iron oxide & reduced iron

Bacteria/yeast/mold produced vitamins:
citric acid (from the mould Aspergillus niger, grown on sugar by-products)
cyanocobalamin (vitamin B12) (from bacteria)
thiamin hydrochloride (vitamin B1)
riboflavin (vitamin B2)
niacinamide (vitamin B3)
calcium pantothenate (vitamin B5)

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#4 2014-11-16 18:33:16

SpaceNut
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

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#5 2014-11-21 11:26:19

Void
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Posts: 3,011

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

So, you are being kind.  That is good.  This site needs a heart more than it needs anything.

Yes, those plants offer much, maybe smile can't be sure until facts are established.  However if it can offer calories, and bladerwort can offer nutrition, and mushrooms might offer additional nutrition, maybe, then much of what is needed for food is covered, and you can be more at ease on what you have to grow in your special greenhouses, to keep humans healthy.


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#6 2015-01-01 22:29:02

SpaceNut
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Scratch one more off the list if all goes well for what can grow on mars...

U.K. researchers plan to grow lettuce on Mars

Any lettuce growing apparatuses would be included on the 2018 launch of the Mars One lander.

The lettuce experiment would see seeds frozen for a multi-week trip to the Red Planet. Once on the Martian surface, the lettuce seeds would be grown inside an inflatable greenhouse that would maintain a constant temperature of 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

The students did their best to explain the precautions they will take to ensure the Red Planet remains uncontaminated.

"First, we will use a lab strain of lettuce that is as clean as it gets," project leaders wrote. "Then we will sterilize all equipment including the surface of the seeds, so the greenhouse will be as virus free as it gets."

Astronauts aboard the International Space Station have previously cultivated lettuce. The greens have been grown in Mars-like conditions on Earth as part of experiments at space agency labs.

Mars One estimates the cost of sending and sustaining a group of astronauts on Mars, from arrival through death, will cost some $6 billion. So far they've raised -- through donations and an IndieGoGo campaign -- roughly $600,000.

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#7 2015-01-02 17:28:02

louis
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Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,487

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

There are many societies around the world where people basically subsist on far fewer food sources. 

Personally I think to begin with the emphasis should be on a pretty limited range of foods: dwarf buckwheat is my favourite for a grain - it's pretty versatile. You don't really need a full range of salad vegetables. Just ensure you are a growing a dark green leaf (much more nutritious than those watery lettuces), tomatoes and onions.

Potatoes are very nutritious of course.

A fatty fruit like an avocado vegetable is useful.     

Mushrooms are quite a good meat substitute. 

I think guinea pig raising should be tried early on...I don't see any reason why that shouldn't succeed.

Although we can begin with hydroponic agriculture, I'd be particularly interested in artificial soil creation on Mars: grinding down rock, mixing in sand and clay from Mars, adding human/guinea pig faeces, adding various minerals found on Mars, and adding food waste/leaf mulch.   Might be useful for growing plants like potatoes.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#8 2015-01-23 14:00:00

JCO
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Posts: 35

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

One of the overriding concerns with food crop on Mars will be the maximum output over time for the minimum space. For this reason I think the first farms on Mars will look similar to the commercial vertical farms that exist. Current vertical farms mostly produce greens. The obvious reasons for this is that they require a limited amount of space and provide constant output. I think on Mars it would also have the benefit of consistent oxygen production. Dark greens will likely be better choices not just for their nutritional value but also because the are likely require less sunlight. The drawback of greens is though their nutritional value is high in some areas it is also very narrow. They provide little or no proteins and calories.
Legumes will likely be a very good choice. They can be a good source of proteins, carbs, oils and fiber. Most will likely be fairly easy to cultivate in some type of vertical farm setting.
Mushrooms while they make a pretty good replacement for meat in a recipe does not replace much of the nutritional value of meat. Mushrooms do provide a good source some minerals uncommon in other foods and vitamin D. They also have the benefit of not needing sunlight at all.
Though I think initial settlements will have a very narrow range of crops I think expanding the variety of food produced will be a priority. This will not just be to add variety to the colonist's diet but to create a more stable farming environment.

I do not think any type of tree will be cultivated for a long time. It will be very expensive in terms of space and tends to be a long delay before output begins. I think grains will be uncommon as in general they are better adapted to open spaces than a greenhouse environment, much lest a vertical farm.

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#9 2019-01-04 22:25:13

SpaceNut
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Earth has many plants and a good variety of them we do not eat... We may need to look at the benefit of having the same on Mars....

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#10 2019-01-05 07:35:54

elderflower
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Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,169

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Recent reports indicate that UV light is required for mushrooms to make vitamin D. I'm not sure that this is correct, but it would seem to agree with the need for UV to make it in human skin. Perhaps both use the same basic pathway.

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#11 2019-01-05 11:06:29

SpaceNut
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Interesting factoid elderflower...so we will need to supplement underground growing lights for a mushroom farm.

I was thing more in this direction...
Bringing oxygen producing plants into your home is a way to mimic the healthy lifestyle factors of longevity in humans from the longest lived cultures.

This NASA Clean Air Study found that oxygen producing plants can be used to both produce oxygen as well as remove common harmful chemicals from the air and break them down into harmless organic byproducts into the soil, which the plants then use as food! These chemicals that are harmful to human health are off-gassed from common household items and products. Some of these items and the chemicals they release are found in synthetic carpets (releases formaldehyde), petroleum products (release benzene), toys, chemical cleaners, paint, furniture with synthetic components and everything else that is synthetic!

When detoxing your body, approximately 70% of it occurs through breathing, 20% through perspiration, 8% through urination and 2% through the bowels.

What Plants Supply the Most Oxygen?

"It is estimated that between 70% and 80% of the oxygen in the atmosphere is produced by marine plants." On average, leaves produce about 5 milliliters of oxygen per hour. So plants that have more leaves produce more oxygen than plants with few leaves. Therefore, large trees or leafy vines produce more oxygen than weak, sparse foliage. In addition, larger leaves produce more oxygen than smaller ones.

We also know that the foods we eat need to be high in oxygen content as well.
Foods to Increase the Oxygen in the Blood and I have also recently heard that nitrogen oxide compounds as well are needed for good health.

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#12 2019-01-05 11:12:42

RobertDyck
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Studies by NASA indicate a greenhouse sufficient to produce enough food to feed astronauts will produce 3 times as much oxygen as required. On Mars there's a simple solution: bring in more CO2 from planetary atmosphere. However, this could be an issue for the Moon. So I don't think we should focus on "which plants supply the most oxygen", instead focus on which plants supply nutrition.

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#13 2019-01-05 11:35:53

SpaceNut
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Lunar oxygen other wise would come from water ice or from processing regolith ore which both require energy so a natural surplus could be funneled off for use in the fuel process.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ag … -food-crop

To compensate the extra oxygen we should look at https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ear … n-process/ in particular AEROBIC (with oxygen) decomposition..

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#14 2019-01-05 12:13:42

RobertDyck
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

My post with a list of crops comes from the first page of the "Crops" thread. It's a list of ingredients for a veggie substitute for meat. Later in the thread I pointed out you can't make molasses or brown sugar from sugar beet. Syrup from sugar beet is edible, but tastes quite different than molasses. It's sold in German (particularly the Rhineland area) under the name Zuckerrüben-Sirup or Zapp. But people in America consider it not fit for human consumption. It's sometimes used as an additive for animal feed (fodder). Ironic: people in France consider corn to be animal fodder, not fit for human consumption. Whatever, cultural differences. Brown sugar can be made either by partially purifying cane sugar, or add molasses from cane sugar to white sugar from sugar beets.

The point is if you want molasses and brown sugar, you're going to have to grow sugarcane anyway. Although sugar beets grow in colder climates, a pressurized greenhouse can be heated to the appropriate climate for sugarcane. To reduce the number of crops, may as well just do sugarcane.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-01-05 16:23:01)

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#15 2019-01-05 17:15:58

SpaceNut
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA3OC84NjEvb3JpZ2luYWwvdGhlLW1hcnRpYW4tMTMuanBn

https://www.livescience.com/52444-growi … -mars.html

A 2014 study in the journal PLOS ONE showed that tomatoes, wheat, cress and mustard leaves grew particularly well, and even flowered and produced seeds, in simulated Martian soil for 50 days, without any fertilizers. In fact, these hardy plants grew even better in Martian soil or "regolith" than in nutrient-poor river soil from Earth.

To determine what food ingredients to actually bring to Mars, scientists must balance trade-offs among the nutritional density of a crop, the resources required to grow them and the germination time. Scientists may be growing lettuce on the ISS as a demonstration, but "man cannot live on lettuce alone," Sokoloff said.

Instead, people have suggested crops such as radishes and strawberries as better Martian snacks, he said. (Number crunchers have determined it would actually require less fuel to simply send over premade foods, rather than the ingredients for farming, for initial short-term visits, Sokoloff said.)

To build up that atmosphere, explorers would need to seed Martian soil chock-full of  oxygen-producing cyanobacteria, lichens and microbes, and it would take hundreds of years for them to produce enough oxygen and nitrogen for an atmosphere.

We will be supplimenting all activities until we can take root on a planet that is dome or can free.

just an example of what is used on the ISS:

The third method is a backup system that makes oxygen through chemical reactions. The system is called the solid fuel oxygen generator (SFOG) and is located in the station's service module (Zvezda). The SFOG, which is also called oxygen candles or chlorate candles, has canisters that contain a mixture of powdered sodium chlorate (NaClO3) and iron (Fe) powder. When the SFOG is ignited, the iron "burns" at 1112 degrees F (600 degrees C), which supplies the heat energy required for the reaction. The sodium chlorate breaks down into sodium chloride (table salt- NaCl) and oxygen gas (O2). Some of the oxygen combines with iron to form iron oxide (FeO):

600°C

NaClO3 (s) + Fe (s) -> 3O2 (g) + NaCl (s) + FeO (s)

The SFOG supplies 6.5 man-hours of oxygen per kilogram of the mixture. Russian spacesuits also make oxygen using SFOGs.

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#16 2019-01-05 21:05:32

Void
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Well SpaceNut to me this looks like an OK place for this, but do as you may like.

https://phys.org/news/2019-01-scientist … boost.html
Quote:

Scientists engineer shortcut for photosynthetic glitch, boost crop growth by 40 percent
January 3, 2019, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Plants convert sunlight into energy through photosynthesis; however, most crops on the planet are plagued by a photosynthetic glitch, and to deal with it, evolved an energy-expensive process called photorespiration that drastically suppresses their yield potential. Researchers from the University of Illinois and U.S. Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service report in the journal Science that crops engineered with a photorespiratory shortcut are 40 percent more productive in real-world agronomic conditions.

"We could feed up to 200 million additional people with the calories lost to photorespiration in the Midwestern U.S. each year," said principal investigator Donald Ort, the Robert Emerson Professor of Plant Science and Crop Sciences at Illinois' Carl R. Woese Institute for Genomic Biology. "Reclaiming even a portion of these calories across the world would go a long way to meeting the 21st Century's rapidly expanding food demands—driven by population growth and more affluent high-calorie diets."
This landmark study is part of Realizing Increased Photosynthetic Efficiency (RIPE), an international research project that is engineering crops to photosynthesize more efficiently to sustainably increase worldwide food productivity with support from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the Foundation for Food and Agriculture Research (FFAR), and the U.K. Government's Department for International Development (DFID).
Photosynthesis uses the enzyme Rubisco—the planet's most abundant protein—and sunlight energy to turn carbon dioxide and water into sugars that fuel plant growth and yield. Over millennia, Rubisco has become a victim of its own success, creating an oxygen-rich atmosphere. Unable to reliably distinguish between the two molecules, Rubisco grabs oxygen instead of carbon dioxide about 20 percent of the time, resulting in a plant-toxic compound that must be recycled through the process of photorespiration.


Four unmodified plants (left) grow beside four plants (right) engineered with alternate routes to bypass photorespiration -- an energy-expensive process that costs yield potential. The modified plants are able to reinvest their energy and …more
"Photorespiration is anti-photosynthesis," said lead author Paul South, a research molecular biologist with the Agricultural Research Service, who works on the RIPE project at Illinois. "It costs the plant precious energy and resources that it could have invested in photosynthesis to produce more growth and yield."

Photorespiration normally takes a complicated route through three compartments in the plant cell. Scientists engineered alternate pathways to reroute the process, drastically shortening the trip and saving enough resources to boost plant growth by 40 percent. This is the first time that an engineered photorespiration fix has been tested in real-world agronomic conditions.

"Much like the Panama Canal was a feat of engineering that increased the efficiency of trade, these photorespiratory shortcuts are a feat of plant engineering that prove a unique means to greatly increase the efficiency of photosynthesis," said RIPE Director Stephen Long, the Ikenberry Endowed University Chair of Crop Sciences and Plant Biology at Illinois.

Scientists Don Ort (left), Paul South (center) and Amanda Cavanagh (right) study how well their plants modified to bypass photorespiration perform beside non-modified plants in real-world conditions. They found that plants engineered with a …more
The team engineered three alternate routes to replace the circuitous native pathway. To optimize the new routes, they designed genetic constructs using different sets of promoters and genes, essentially creating a suite of unique roadmaps. They stress tested these roadmaps in 1,700 plants to winnow down the top performers.
Over two years of replicated field studies, they found that these engineered plants developed faster, grew taller, and produced about 40 percent more biomass, most of which was found in 50-percent-larger stems.
The team tested their hypotheses in tobacco: an ideal model plant for crop research because it is easier to modify and test than food crops, yet unlike alternative plant models, it develops a leaf canopy and can be tested in the field. Now, the team is translating these findings to boost the yield of soybean, cowpea, rice, potato, tomato, and eggplant.


The red car represents unmodified plants who use a circuitous and energy-expensive process called photorespiration that costs yield potential. The blue car represents plants engineered with an alternate route to shortcut photorespiration, …more
"Rubisco has even more trouble picking out carbon dioxide from oxygen as it gets hotter, causing more photorespiration," said co-author Amanda Cavanagh, an Illinois postdoctoral researcher working on the RIPE project. "Our goal is to build better plants that can take the heat today and in the future, to help equip farmers with the technology they need to feed the world."

While it will likely take more than a decade for this technology to be translated into food crops and achieve regulatory approval, RIPE and its sponsors are committed to ensuring that smallholder farmers, particularly in Sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia, will have royalty-free access to all of the project's breakthroughs.
Explore further: Scientists boost crop production by 47 percent by speeding up photorespiration
More information: P.F. South el al., "Synthetic glycolate metabolism pathways stimulate crop growth and productivity in the field," Science (2018). science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi … 1126/science.aav8979
Journal reference: Science   
Provided by: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Here is an alternate article on the subject:
http://www.fruitnet.com/fpj/article/177 … ger-plants

So, they claim they can improve photosynthesis and increase biomass by 40%.  It seems perhaps that it is mostly stems?  But biomass is still important, and perhaps better stems are important.  In spite of that they seem to indicate that they think that they can increase crops significantly.

So, I find it hard to think that that would not be important in space.  In any case where you arrange to provide photons to a "Crop".

I wonder what it would do to things like Duck Weed, and Cyanobacteria, Spirulina?

To a degree, I would be a bit afraid of messing with single celled photo organisms.  Might change Earth's ecology.  Could be good, but we would likely be on a planet that was in biological flux.  Adaptation required.

So, I guess maybe Duckweed might be OK for Mars.  Maybe not Earth.


Done.


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#17 2019-01-05 21:35:10

SpaceNut
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Posts: 17,892

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Removed double post

So we are playing with our food to make it better....we will need to

Eating your veggies, even in space

climate-regulated-growth-chambers-food-farm-yield-testing-hg.jpg

"Astronauts like gardening and everything that reminds them of life on earth. They enjoy tending and watering the vegetables, and getting them to germinate," The lettuce was planted in artificial soil made from lava rock. The goal is for the plants to grow directly in water that is supplemented with plant nutrients.  "The dream of every astronaut is to be able to eat fresh food - like strawberries, cherry tomatoes or anything that's really flavorful.

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#18 2019-01-06 01:00:32

RobertDyck
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Void wrote:

Scientists engineer shortcut for photosynthetic glitch, boost crop growth by 40 percent

I posted my web page on Chloroplast based life support in 2001. It's based on an idea I had in grade 7, in 1974. But of course it's a lot more complicated than I thought when I was 12. My idea was a life support system for a space station or spacecraft, but one way to get funding for this was to increase crop yield. Perhaps a biotech company would fund it. Looks like they did. But instead of using green peas or yellow field peas, they used food crops that grow in underdeveloped countries. I chose peas because a document I got from a biology professor at a local university (my alma mater) said the easiest plant to harvest in-vitro chloroplasts from is a pea. When I spoke to Dr. Penelope Boston about this at a Mars Society convention, she said scientists had been working on reducing photorespiration for years, no one had succeeded. The article says these guys did. Both articles are vague about details, but sounds like they took my approach.

I have posted on this forum about using the 3 pathways from cyanobacteria. All plants use chloroplasts for photosynthesis. It was "enslaved" by eukaryotic cells early in evolution. Chloroplasts today have 85% of genes from cyanobacteria. My idea was to take missing genes from cyanobacteria, transplant them into the single chromosome in the nucleus of plant cells that's used to make a plasmid for a chloroplast. That way instead of photosynthesis requiring actions by chloroplast, mitochondrium, and peroxisom, instead it's all done within a chloroplast. My goal was to ensure in-vitro chloroplasts are self-sustaining, so they can remain viable long enough to be useful as the core of life support in space. But it should make photorespiration more efficient, so plants become more energy efficient, so they grow more and faster. My idea was not just one pathway, but all 3 in one plant.

This isn't the first time someone has stolen an idea I posted on this forum.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-01-06 01:11:53)

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#19 2019-01-06 09:14:22

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,892

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Voids post

scientistsen.jpg

Interesting growing pattern:

second article link

The process of photorespiration in plants is described as a genetic “glitch” in plants, which inhibits their development by accidentally converting oxygen, rather than carbon dioxide, leaving a toxic residue that needs to be recycled.

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#20 2019-01-06 10:37:35

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

However the improvement came to be, it is very important everywhere one might intend to grow crops.

Roberts plans for greenhouses.

Artificial light "Pink Houses".

It is all good!

To have a potential 40% gain on your investment is nothing to be dismissed.

It could be the margin of gain needed for success of the human race, rather than a decline per Easter Islands fall.

Very good news.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-01-06 10:39:10)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#21 2019-01-06 13:37:54

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
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Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

SpaceNut wrote:

second article link

The process of photorespiration in plants is described as a genetic “glitch” in plants, which inhibits their development by accidentally converting oxygen, rather than carbon dioxide, leaving a toxic residue that needs to be recycled.

The "glitch" is that the enzyme RuBisCO is supposed to bind one molecule of CO2 with one molecule of RuBP (Ribulose-1,5-Bisphosphate), which then becomes 2 molecules of 3PG (3-phosphogycerate). One of those smaller molecules starts the process to become sugar, the other is built back up into RuBP to start the process over again. But if the ratio of O2 to CO2 is too high, it can bind O2 instead. RuBP then becomes one molecule of 3PG (3-phosphoglycerate) and one molecule of 2PG (2-phosphoglycolate). When this happens, 2PG has to be recycled.

Cycle in plants:
1024px-Photorespiration_eng.png

The pathway in plants is one of the 3 used in cyanobacteria. And not all of that one is done in a chloroplast, parts have to be done by other organalles. All 3 pathways of cyanobacteria: Glycerate pathway (used by plants), C2 cycle, and Decarboxylation.

Note: C4 plants such as corn increase concentration of CO2 in plant tissues before photosynthesis to reduce photorespiration. The third pathway of cyanobacteria breaks down 2PG into CO2, so it's a more efficient way of doing the same thing.
F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

Are these the 3 "alternate pathways" that University of Illinois is using? Probably.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-01-06 13:48:16)

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#22 2019-01-07 05:00:11

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,169

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

The latest theory that I read on the plight of the Easter Islanders says that it was due to Polynesian Rats, which arrived with the settlers and ate the seeds of the palm trees which dominated the Island. So as the palms were cut for structures the forest never got a chance to regrow, resulting in severe soil erosion and impoverished agriculture. Without the trees the people were unable to make large boats and were stuck on their island.
We must be careful not to take rats or their equivalent to Mars!

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#23 2020-01-12 17:07:28

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,892

Re: Food for Thought, what does a garden need to grow

Our newest member has given us a great reason to grow specific foods:

Steve Stewart wrote:

Mars could have several organic acids available by simply growing fruits and vegetables. Some of these organic acids include:

Citric acid (C6H8O7) is found in citrus fruits such as lemons, limes, oranges, tangerines, and tomatoes.
Acetic acid (C2H4O2) is found in apples, grapes, oranges, pineapples, and strawberries.
Formic acid (CH2O2) is found in apples, strawberries, and raspberries.
Oxalic acid (C2H2O4) is found in beet greens, rhubarb, spinach, beets, Swiss chard, endive, cocoa powder, kale, sweet potatoes, peanuts, and turnip greens.
Uric acid (C5H4N4O3) is found in spinach, peas, lenticels, cauliflowers, and beans.
Malic acid (C4H6O5) is found in apricots, blackberries, blueberries, cherries, grapes, peaches, pears, plums, watermelon, and mango.

Another type of solvent that could be used is vinegar.

I would think that these do not need to be fresh for the intended use as cleaners and for nutritional aspects of vitimans

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