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#1 2013-07-11 08:32:35

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

Just looking over some images and "believe" I can make some reasonable arguments for dynamic Mars weather, geological events occurring now on Mars. These go against the mainstream but are not without evidence by current probes. I am not a geologist, but out gassing is a result of subterranean events. Evidence of these will be presented with surface and orbital observation.

The low pressures on mars do develop air masses and areas of divergence, subsidence, convergence and convection. The hydro cycle is always involved, Sublimation and cooling and condensational latent heat drives a thermal gradient wind. Earth analogs are rare but do and can occur.

The first link is from with Mars Global Surveyor. A cropped image from this link:

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/wea … tion02.jpg

This link is a crop:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11627092@N06/9263003700/

This is a surface analysis of the above crop. This looks like an Earth weather map, but it showed be understood that pressure differences are small, but are present. The dynamics or winds, are thermal with only a small pressure gradient influence.

This image is significant because of air mass migration and atmospheric mixing southward to near 10 degrees latitude No water vapor is condensed to the point of visible accumulation. Keep in mind this image was taken in 2002 when visible color was either questioned and often edited to adhere to current theory. That being said, the dynamics cannot be denied, no matter the visible color depiction.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11627092@N06/9263008448/

More to come....

Last edited by Vincent (2013-07-11 08:49:33)


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#2 2013-07-11 08:46:35

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

To understand the color editing and image quality restrictions for public consumption by NASA, I present one more image. This image was presented by NASA just before Curiosity landed.  Have you ever seen such a detailed "true color" image from Mars before? They got'em.

My link:


7718565332_e5f8ce5598.jpg
672847main_vasavada-4_full by dfrank39, on Flickr

Last edited by Vincent (2013-07-18 12:14:37)


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-Dana Johnson

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#3 2013-07-11 09:33:34

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

The next discussion is about water influence. Now, any reasonable mind would proclaim that without a renewed source of water, then, all water would be frozen and buried in dust. If this sounds reasonable, it is because, it is reasonable.

So where is the water coming from? Out gassing.

So the visible evidence should present a dust covered Mars, that it doesn't, or, the visible evidence should present both a renewed ice layer and out gassing.

The "fact" that new ice forms at the poles each winter is without question. Without renewal, this would end. The orbital satellites show, not only the current water interaction, but, out gassing evidence.

Current water vapor interaction. Orographic lift occurs as upslope conditions develop. Earth analog is along the front range of the Rocky Mountains in the U.S.

This image shows orographic lift and layered development of a visible accumulation of water vapor. This is logical, not only in physical development, but in visible presentation.
Source:

9260200053_c438d942ff.jpg
2002_06_18_24 by dfrank39, on Flickr


Cropped, magnified and rotated:

9262997840_66b2ccfc1f.jpg
2600837350_752bfdc47d_o by dfrank39, on Flickr


This image, high ice cloud over Mars' limb. This composite of red and blue Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) images acquired on 6 July 2005 shows an isolated water ice cloud extending more than 30 kilometers (more than 18 miles) above the Martian surface. 

That was posted long  time ago The visible presentation is different, because there is a difference. It is a plume at the base of a volcano. The visible presentation is different, because the source is different. We have seen orographic atmospheric water vapor moisture in a satellite visible presentation. This is water vapor out gassing....

Can you tell the difference?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11627092@N06/9262997840/

Last edited by Vincent (2013-07-18 12:02:09)


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#4 2013-07-11 09:53:17

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

As far as surface conditions I present the current Gale Crater images. It shows rocks and dust, as it should.

Curiosity Sol 329:

9316526594_15f0f12538.jpg
0329MR1334000000E1_DXXX by dfrank39, on Flickr

Miridiani Sol 120 or about:

2722003065_ced2168932.jpg
sol 122 by dfrank39, on Flickr

Can you tell the difference?

The bottom line is an impact region, vs. a  natural deposition area with outgassing....

Vincent

Last edited by Vincent (2013-07-18 12:08:37)


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#5 2013-07-18 12:59:51

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

Some really cool water snow drifts against the polar scarp. This is upslope precipitation "off the chain." It's like Denver Colorado on steroids....
Can we say, "front range."

8044164754_9b9b25475f.jpg
Scarp by dfrank39, on Flickr


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#6 2013-07-18 13:10:32

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

How do I know it is water ice? Because it disappears in a season. Believe it or not,  CO2 ice can be buried and can be residual...

Vincent

Cyclonic storms do develop in "ideal" conditions on Mars. Surface water snow can and does reach the surface on occasion. This MOC image does show, or give a visible presentation of residual water snow in the late spring...

2795792473_55c5f5b633.jpg
snow storm by dfrank39, on Flickr

Viking saw it on the surface....

2980434815_b47a4d9b74.jpg
snow007 by dfrank39, on Flickr


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#7 2013-07-18 13:28:56

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

A repost of water clouds passing overhead of Phoenix, by Hortonheardawho.... See the blue hue....

2870589662_4908112775.jpg
clouds 2 by dfrank39, on Flickr


Argument expected.
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#8 2013-07-18 13:59:45

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

Melt water from Phoenix....

2541026126_df9184a7c2.jpg
Ice by dfrank39, on Flickr


Argument expected.
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#9 2013-07-22 10:38:49

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

Do we need to go Newton Crater..... That aint dust....

9345148494_8f4de6d980.jpg
marsnewton_mgs_big by dfrank39, on Flickr


Argument expected.
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#10 2013-07-22 11:02:08

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

The green green grass of home...

9344679288_8653d65489.jpg
44eeb15b-19f3-4ac4-97e1-d44b4e5d45bc113 by dfrank39, on Flickr

Last edited by Vincent (2013-07-26 07:59:26)


Argument expected.
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-Dana Johnson

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#11 2013-07-26 08:43:57

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Mars Weather, Geology, for Real

This image speaks of a cold dusty world. Visibility reduced in dust to around 3 nautical miles. Temperature data from REMS, seems to have been suspended from public viewing. Night-time temps are warmer no doubt, Day-time temperatures, colder. Unexpected swings due to inversions and hyper cooling most likely.

So, cold and dusty conditions. Is this a local event or is this a precursor to a regional event?  It is hard to argue that liquid water could ever exist in this environment, that's because. "it could not."  Transient liquid water requires clear skies and unrestricted visibilities. This allows for cooling to saturation at night, and warming of ground temperatures above 0C for pure water during the day. The source is atmospheric. How water got into low levels at the equatorial regions is problematic. We can debate that issue, but it does not matter, it is there with saturation and associated frost.

This could be the reason no dust devils have been seen. The crater makes a dust devil on such a large scale that it engulfs the entire crater as it circulates around Mt Sharp. This grand scale makes the winds  much weaker. All we are left with are dusty skies.

Vincent


9368745519_7a0b31fcd1.jpg
0343MR1388000000E1_DXXX by dfrank39, on Flickr


Argument expected.
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-Dana Johnson

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