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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,818

Weird Notions about Hydrogen, Methane, and Plants, No reply expected.

I suppose I could pollute the Crops thread but I have respect for other peoples turf.

It occured to me on a recent car trip, that it might be entertaining to suppose the incorporation of Hydrogen into human motabolism, in the event of starvation.

To support this I note that beer and other alchoholic beverages contain calories, and that a beer gut is associate with beer.

I have previously contemplated a descendent of humans that would not eat any other living organism, but instead would get it's energy from Hydrogen and Oxygen.  Of course there is more to nutrition than that.  I anticipated that that being would have a symbiotic organism, which it would link to, which would use photosynthisis to generate the Hydrogen and Oxygen to motabolize, and that periodically these two organisms would link blood streams through something like a placenta, or a shared bloodstream (With sphintcers to prevent bleeding out when not linked).  This was to be a human like organism which could cross the gap between stars, where the "Mother/host" would be a big thing or a leafy thing fed by light, perhaps from a laser emitted from the solar system, or some other source.

The point is evolution has required that we be clever and fast enough not to be eaten, and also has required that we can accumulate the poor creatures that we must eat.  That has required that we must budget our capabilities.  A body can only have so many abilities, to be small and agile enough to escape lions, tigers, and bears.  It must be mobile enough to predate on plants and those other creatures that we might exploit from desparation.

I had considered a host organism which would have so much organized bulk as a symbiont that it would be able to (With a cyberntic brain) analyze every aspect of the "Human" associate and to fight cancer and other diseases.

I have given moral consideration to this.  It would bother me to draw from such a manufactured creature without giving back.  It would have a cybernetic brain to begin with and to contiue with, and would perhaps retain it's own esential memories, and that of it's "Human" partner.  When and if it's organic body died, it would be given another of it's type, and so would continue, bringing the heritage of history with it.  The associated "Human" part may not have such a type of continuation.

You understand that I am trying in this to project some type of assessment of what the future "could" hold.

So, that is the background.  Where I stopped was when I wondered why it would have a mouth with teeth.  (The human part)  Just for the joy of dental work?

This will illustrate my concern that we need to preserve some notion of what is human, against the chaos that the future invites us to.  I love chaos.  It is the promise of adventure and a better future, but also we need one foot in chaos and one in order.  That is my opinion.

Anyway I am not fond of the idea of a human without teeth or at least a mouth.  I will leave that possible future to those who might be there.

But for now, I have these thoughts;

1) It might be possible to incorporate Hydrogen directly into human motabolism in emergencies as food.  Not proven, and potentially highly dangerous for fire and explosions.  Alchohol can be ingested as colories, (But has toxic effects if the dose is too high).  Hydrogen being a small atom/molecule, might be able to permeate the skin of a human as an energy supply in a space flight emergency.  Very dangerous in the presence of an Oxydizer, but I have curiosity about it.

2) Can plants primitive or advanced be grown in a Methane atmosphere in a dome?  Hydrogen being so small, it is unlikely to efficienty retain it in a dome structure, so I resort to Methane.  Anyway photosynthetic plants are all about making complex hydrocarbons, and really expelling Oxygen to atmosphere.  I have wondered if the case would exist in the future where it would make sense to get humans Oxygen for breathing not from plants, but from technological means, could you then grow plants in a dome in a Methane atmosphere, and allow them to use their Oxygen internally with the Methane and sunshine to manufacture even more Hydrocarbons?  (Food and building materials for humans that is).

Anyway perhaps some form of entertainment for you is incorporated into this thread.    I want someone to tell me if green plants can be grown in a partial Methane atmosphere, a "Mars Jar" of sorts.  This might also give an indication for what the potentials are for life on planets that are more dominantly Carbon than Silicon.

Here is a slightly and vaguely associate link:

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100324/ … 0.146.html

Just wanted to get rid of this one.  Maybe someone will have the desire to illuminate my mind on my queries.  I will ruminate on it for a very long time, if I get no answers from somewhere, and I would rather not bother with the ruminations.

Last edited by Void (2013-03-25 19:00:37)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,388

Re: Weird Notions about Hydrogen, Methane, and Plants, No reply expected.

This topic has been sitting idle since 2013.... The post (link) I am adding today is about methane.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/scientists-d … 00564.html

However, it is mostly about study of the digestive system of cows and other ruminants, whose gut include bacteria that produce methane.

The amount of methane produced by the world's ruminants is significant.

The scientists involved in the research reported in the article are investigating whether they might be able to promote bacteria that will produce energy for the animal instead of making methane, which the animal belches.

I note that in 2013, Void was thinking about ruminations.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,388

Re: Weird Notions about Hydrogen, Methane, and Plants, No reply expected.

For Void.... we have a number of topics about methane...

GW Johnson has issued a challenge to find and report any available information about a machine/instrument that was reported to be able to "see" methane against a background of nitrogen gas.  I am interested in using your topic if you have no objection.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,818

Re: Weird Notions about Hydrogen, Methane, and Plants, No reply expected.

(th) use away.

As for my original post, I anticipate from the little I have learned that my question of Humans digesting Hydrogen is negative.

As for the detection of Methane at a distance, query: "What wavelengths of light is Methane visible in?, AI overview"

https://fluxlab.ca/2021/09/23/evelise/# … e%E2%80%9D.
Quote:

To picture methane, cameras use spectral wavelength filtering to allows infrared wavelengths between 3.2 to 3.4µm to pass through to the sensor, which is one of the spectrum ranges over which methane is “visible”.

But of course you may also have CO2, which would be different I expect.

But "Greenhouse Gasses" are somewhat Opaque to infrared wavelengths, seems to be the effect to detect.

Here is some info for CO2:  To picture methane, cameras use spectral wavelength filtering to allows infrared wavelengths between 3.2 to 3.4µm to pass through to the sensor, which is one of the spectrum ranges over which methane is “visible”.

A plume of CO2 should sink, a plume of Methane should rise.  But not if they have a temperature not as ambient to the atmospheric temperature.  Cold Methane might sink, hot CO2 might rise.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-10-26 20:04:38)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,388

Re: Weird Notions about Hydrogen, Methane, and Plants, No reply expected.

For Void re #4

Thank you for your support of an initiative to try to collect information about "seeing" methane...

The interest arises from a series of posts by RGClark, who has pointed out that the Starships (both the booster and the second stage) suffer from difficulties that may be related to the use of methane as a rocket fuel.

GW Johnson has stated that the pressure of the methane in either or both of these vehicles is on the order of 4000 psi.  I gather that is a pressure not commonly seen in applications using methane.

It appears that leaks are occurring in both ships, and I am interested in the possibility existing sensors might be able to detect methane inside the engine compartments of either vehicle.

Per your example, I asked Google about equipment to "see" methane...

Search Labs | AI Overview
Learn more
…
An instrument that uses light to show methane gas is called an Optical Gas Imaging (OGI) camera; it works by detecting the infrared light absorbed by methane, essentially "seeing" the gas as a visual image on the camera screen, allowing for the identification of methane leaks and emissions.
Key points about OGI cameras:
Infrared detection:
They utilize infrared wavelengths of light, which methane readily absorbs, making it visible to the camera.
Visual representation:
Unlike traditional gas detectors, OGI cameras produce a visual image of the methane plume, allowing for easier leak localization.
Applications:
Commonly used in the oil and gas industry to detect methane leaks from pipelines, storage tanks, and other equipment.

(th)