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#1 2012-08-23 16:42:45

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Open letter(HEIS).

Hi There, Cari Amici (Dear Friends).

No secret: many useful solutions exist onto junction of the very & even too different branches of the Knowledge, but scientific team cannot be widened ad infinitum to be skilled of everything because of resource's lack & due to problem to manage. One solution of possible, at current time, is to create  HEIS(Hyper-Effective Intellectual System). Actually, HEIS will be the network of human(s) & computers, connected to each other via BCI (brain computer interface).

My point is to develop HEIS through following steps:

   1. to alloy my brain with machine.
   2. I'll do my best to inquire machine as my new body.
   3. my brain will be stimulated to use its slight working parts.
   4. to research different ways to make brain's tissue be growing.
   5. to study the opportunities to directly connect with brains of animals & another persons(volunteers).

-------------------------------------------------
I need scientific center to conduct this project. A little remark: it's just matter of closest time, when conventional methods to R&D shall be completely useless to advance technology even inch ahead. Meanwhile, state-of-the-art techs cannot not only to solve current challenges, but de-facto they have become problems per se (Chernobyl, Fukushima etc.)! In result of the aforesaid project, we can get ways to open up the Gate to New Technologies.
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              Thanks a lot in Advance.

Amici, we really & desperately need to get breakthrough in SDP(systems of data processing), then R&Ds in Space Industry shall be more cheap & fast. Actually, Time is too short to lose any moment & chance.

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#2 2013-03-10 01:32:26

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

The old proverb, “two heads are better than one,” was put to the test recently when researchers electronically linked the brains of two rats, prompting the animals to work together to accomplish a common goal.

The researchers fitted each rat with a device that allowed one rat to
send brain waves to the other, even when separated by long distances.
The rat that received the transmitted information used it to help
perform a simple task, which earned both rats a reward.

When the rats’ joint efforts were unsuccessful, the animals used the
device as a two-way communicator, to mentally collaborate with each
other until they performed the task properly.

“These experiments demonstrated the ability to establish a
sophisticated, direct communication linkage between rat brains, and that
the decoder brain is working as a pattern-recognition device,” said Miguel Nicolelis from Duke University’s School of Medicine. “So basically, we are creating an organic computer that solves a puzzle.”

http://blogs.voanews.com/science-world/ … -to-brain/

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#3 2013-03-10 02:58:35

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 533

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Perhaps you will tollerate my comments.

I have pondered things like this, not quite the same but related.

For instance I have tried too peer ahead to the path that might be taken, to inhabit some of the Moons of Jupiter or perhaps a cold Earth like planet around another star.

I have considered just how efficiency and survival might lead the descendants of the humans or some other alien population.

My solution for cold worlds is to be able to master oceans under ice sheets, since smaller outer worlds seem to offer this, and inner worlds at best offer dry rigolyth and ice at shaded locations.

I have considered an engineered human connectable to a diriviative of a primitive whale.  With a avatar robot on the surface also connected.  The "Whale" which would have legs so as to walk in tunnels in the ice shell, but could also swim in the ocean below.  The "Human" would perhaps have minimal lungs, but would be connectable by a placenta type organ to the "Whale".
The "Whale" would digest primarily "Hydrogen" and an Oxydizer for energy and would derive it's other needs from the water, and perhaps the "Human".  As it would not eat with it's mouth the human would ride in it.  And so keep warm. "Johna" : )
The human would be able to disconnect from the whale when in the tunnels.  The tunnels could be habitable and warm, lined with manufactured materials.

The brain of the whale could be cybernetic.  The Robot on the cold surface of course also so.  Those three minds could be linked as in the rats, so the human could be aware of self or the whale's experiences, or be aware of the experiences of the robot working an very low temperatures on the surface.

But this would be a different life form, not a humans as we conceive of it.

What would be it's psycology?

Beyond that we have the danger of the hive mind.

Individual humans could be as dim witted as bees, if they were all linked together.  The hive would direct them.

Where the danger is is the conflict between efficiency and capability.  Sadly, efficiency is what nature favors, not intellegence.

The limits of communication have caused humans to have atonomous awareness as individuals.  1,000,000 chimps typing on keyboards might result in one of them stumbiling on a clever new thing.  One hive mind is one hive mind.

In my opinion verbal language has already damaged the evolution of the human mind.  We do need sufficient efficiency to acutalize material goods, to actually live out the dreams that we may have, but their is a danger of generating an unwise organism that only exists to spread, a virus in it's effect of existance.

There may not be a thing we can do about this, but I think stupid ant hives would be a sad ending for our heritage, when we are about to have the chance to live the dream of Solar system and perhaps even interstellar expansion.

On the other side of this is might an organism be created that can solve all puzzles in the universe in 1 hour?  Then what does it do to amuse itself?  Do we wreck our existance, our happiness, by achiving to much in the wrong direction?  Like a child who enjoyed swinging on a swing, but now we are adults, and even seniors, and would we enjoy it now?

Anyway I have not developed thinking beyond this so far.

Last edited by Void (2013-03-11 05:41:29)

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#4 2013-03-10 18:16:00

Terraformer
Member
From: Some lousy backwards planet wi
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 1,695
Website

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

But who doesn't enjoy swinging on a swing? Adulthood is an addition to childhood, not a replacement for it as most people seem to think.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q

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#5 2013-03-11 05:45:34

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 533

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

A good point I guess.  Childlike behaviors in adults can be a sign of advanced intellegence I believe, so long as it is coupled with capability and sensible judgement.

But on this one, if it is to be, I think we should be careful to catch the bus and not let it catch us.

There are still far too many people around who have satisfaction in consuming the lives of others to satisfy primitive instinct for dominace.  This is in plain sight in our world as we live it now.

Last edited by Void (2013-03-12 03:47:38)

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#6 2013-03-14 19:55:52

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Beyond that we have the danger of the hive mind.

Individual humans could be as dim witted as bees, if they were all linked together.  The hive would direct them.

Where the danger is is the conflict between efficiency and capability.  Sadly, efficiency is what nature favors, not intellegence.

Void, any social system dictates hive mind by one way or another. Biological brain is hive of cells too. only collective work makes possible to create civilization & we must have a system to organize this creative process of going towards future.

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#7 2013-03-15 15:30:55

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 533

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

SarK0Y

Void, any social system dictates hive mind by one way or another. Biological brain is hive of cells too. only collective work makes possible to create civilization & we must have a system to organize this creative process of going towards future.

While I might present ideas from my personal (Which is a culturally infulenenced) bias, and others are of course welcome to adopt, or question them, my primary purpose for joining the hive with you at this moment is a sanity check, so thanks for the "Check".

I will attempt to present some arguments, which do not invalidate your statement, but might add qualifications to it.

These will only be related as arguments as to why I think we need to maintian concious awareness of the problems that the hive mind can present.  I do not present them as absolute, but as perceptions, which to me are supported by significant evidence in history and in my personal experiences.  Many are drawn from books written by persons living in previous time periods.  So the samples span time longer then my era or immediate culture.

1) "The crowd, A Study of the Popular Mind." by Gustave Le Bon.  A crowd of idiots is as smart as a crowd of Einsteins.  The hive mind of a crowd is an idiot.

2) "Woman And Power In History" by Amaury De Riencourt. On his word, I draw that prehistoric culture myth had primarily female diety, and were cyclical in nature, up until the advent of the Hebrews and the Persians, and the emergence of male diety represented a shift that helped to create the modern world, linear thinking, the ability to rise (Or fall) from the limits of cyclical thinking.  I add on my own that women have 4 or 5 spoken words for each word that a man will speak.

3) My own assertions are that we have an opportunity to rise (Or fall) from our current cycle, and a concious awareness of the process is required by individuals who choose it and who can find it.  The crowd will always opt for the tried and true, bread and the circus, because a crowd is a idiot.  The idiot will then make it impossible for the idividuals who can make a difference towards rising to do so, rendering social energy into non productive activities.  Productive being difined in this case as capability, capability to access a new frontier.

4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy  I regaurd encription as a waste of my time.  Although I had planned to expand my programming capabilities in that direction, after those idiots did 9/11, I concluded any such activity would draw moronic response from our national hive, and concluded that my efforts would be better invested in other things.  However the philosophy of the software has value I believe.  The notion that privacy and personal property drive the ability to rise above a cycle.  Otherwise, if anyone can walk off with your personal intellectual and material property, (A tribal culture), everyone knows your business, then the hive has much too much of an edge over the individual, and the individual wastes it's time and weakens itself against competitors and is driven out of the gene and meme pool.

5) We need to channel to the degree that we can the path that is taken.  The balance is between those who read books, and those who write books.  The word book symbolizes recorded memes.  Many many people follow books, and do not think.  This can been very efficient as to capture the matrial goods and to dominate the gene pool and exclude other types, but it's capability is primarily in reptition, cycles.  Writing a book requires that you have something to write (Worthless or Useful).

6) In this current world as in previous worlds, there are emergent cultures writting new things, and there are heritage cultures clinging to old things from books.  Muscle and bones.  A good body is not all bone.  A good body is not all muscle.

7) An Astronaut recently said that motion appears to be connected to mind.  He said that there is an organism that when young is free swimming, but when older anchors itself to the bottom of the sea, and then eats it's central nervous system.
Trees do not have what we would call a brain.  Read between the lines if you like.

8) I have just experienced an era where a baby boom thought outside of the box, and invented new technologies, then a power group invented as many crimes to harass them with as they could.  Crashed the process to possess it, then redirected it to provide controll.  Even so I have benifited, since it turned out I could be of service, but most of my generation ended up being put into chains by their own inventions, so that a group of people could bend reality and choose the winners and loosers not on the basis of merit, but on the basis of selfish inherited unconcious motivation to procreate at the expense of others.  Not something unusual, but really quite predictable from history.

I guess I think it comes down to making the point that you should look before you leap.  The mouth and ear are one thing, the hand and the eye another.  Except for the deaf, mostly hiving is done with words.  What about the eye and hand?  Inventions, individuality lives there more.  Since access to space is to a large extent a question of manipulation of material objects the eye and hand are more important.  But yes manipulation of groups which are inherantly idiots is also important.  This is where we could likely hope for intellegent wise women who do not make the focus of their lives the minipulation of playboy men disguised as leaders (Who then recipocate by channeling unearned material goods to their matrons).

I think I will go to the gym again.

Awareness that's all I am asking for.

Last edited by Void (2013-03-15 22:22:01)

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#8 2013-03-15 22:58:11

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

1) "The crowd, A Study of the Popular Mind." by Gustave Le Bon.  A crowd of idiots is as smart as a crowd of Einsteins.  The hive mind of a crowd is an idiot.

Void, hive & crowd are extremely different "beasts": crowd is social object with non-synced high-level activity, it Just has been lead back & forth by emotions. Hive synchronize every aspect of society to provide maximal stability of entire system.

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#9 2013-03-16 15:02:27

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 533

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Well, I am probabbly too light weight for this match.  However I advise some caution.

I am much more comfortable with the notion of a agumentation of an existing mind.  Less comfortable with a higher speed connection between multiple human minds, or a human mind an an animal, (However much could be learned from that).

It does suggest a talking dog, a cyborg grey parrot, crosslinking with a dolphin.

But the caution is in creating a thinking entity that is not human, for which we have no social structure to deal with.  We generally know what to expect as a human developes, be even then we now and then get trouble from one gone wrong.  Even then, those follow expected pathways in general.  It is what we don't have any familiarity with that concerns me.  While a rising breakout from normal cycle is what I desire, I do not desire a deviation so outside of experience that it does not connect with human heritage, but replaces it with an uncontrolled predatory replication pattern.  (Predatory not so much in the sense of eating, but in the sense of nullifying the human experience and heritage).

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#10 2013-03-16 19:11:51

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Void, high-advanced techs cannot be risk-free.

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#11 2013-03-17 16:19:44

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 533

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

I agree, and this one is here now, and I don't expect an inquisition to remove it in this present culture.  So, I am just suggesting that we need contemplation as we go.  My tastes are for something that is a level up from where we are, but in general a continuation of what we are.

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#12 2013-03-17 20:47:38

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Void, personality is no more than byproduct of Intelligence + this byproduct could be very stone to stop the improvement of whoever person. we diverted on wrong road: we haven't bases on the Moon, we haven't spaceships etc, but we have iPets smile Chelyabinsk event is clear example of what we are per se.

Last edited by SarK0Y (2013-03-17 20:48:24)

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#13 2013-03-18 04:02:26

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 533

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Yes in general I think I get what you are saying.

Augmentation of powers with values less than prefered.

I make this point.  At one time lions would rid the human race of stupid people dumb enough to want to invite such an attack.

As horrible as that was, it was in a way like a guiding hand.  We could not be the lions because they occupied that space.  And so we were generalists sometimes predator, herbavore, and food.  This was like a container which defined our physical, intellectual, and psycological shape.

Now we risk becomming cancer.  Without defined form.  Later having a new definition of form perhaps defined by predation between human/cyborg groups (Killing, enslaving, etc.).

All this leaves us now is self control if possible.  At least defining some of the potential pitfalls might help.

But maybe in the end it is not ours to decide.  Just throw the computer chips in the air and let the best cyborg win?

Grey Parrot assimilation perhaps.  Resistance is futile.  smile

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#14 2013-04-05 21:15:14

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

In a medical journal published this month, radiologist, Seung-Schik Yoo of Harvard Medical School in Boston, has shown the world that it's possible to control the physical motions of a rat with nothing more than the brain activity of a human.
A relatively basic brain-to-brain connection was established by enabling the motor cortex portion of an anesthetized rat's brain to receive signals from a human volunteer who was wearing an EEG (electroencephalography) cap. An intermediary device capable of channeling focused ultrasonic pulses transmits the signals from human to rat.
The goal of the experiment was to move the rat's tail while the rat was asleep using only the thoughts of the volunteer. i09 reports that all six participants were successful at controlling the rat’s tail with an accuracy rate of 94 percent and with a time delay of 1.6 seconds from the moment of thought initiation to the tail movement.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/347254

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#15 2013-04-06 15:50:48

Terraformer
Member
From: Some lousy backwards planet wi
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 1,695
Website

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Interesting. I suspected it would be possible to hijack other people's bodies...

Link it up to iris cams and ear mikes, and we could possibly effect what would appear to be a body swap. Such a system would require blocking the motor cortex of the individuals involved in receiving signals from their own brains, which would allow paralysing people without harming them - a very interesting security system to have...


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q

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#16 2013-04-06 22:49:27

SarK0Y
Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2012-08-23
Posts: 18

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Terraformer, to hijack only body ain't efficient because signal has latencies + remote operator could get unfocused, so hijacked body cannot be able to move accurately. To run practical-worthy solutions needs two-way BTBI (brain-to-brain interface). but this phase of program have great chance to ruin operator's mental health. However, fact as-is: w/o such phase, there will be Just lab-driven circus smile

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#17 2013-04-07 17:29:50

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 533

Re: Open letter(HEIS).

Obviously the same people who put chickens into pens where they cannot move to force them to lay more eggs have to be a concern in this technology.  There are always those who see common humans as a resource to exploit.  That is the negitive.

However, there could be a positive, which would extend the abilities (And as Sarkoy indicated the potential for insanity) for humans.  I tend to believe that people should contribute, they also should be given opportunity for autonomy and self determination.  I believe that this is more or less where the creativity lies, and creativity is at the heart of adaptation.  If the world outside of humans only changes slowly, the world as affected by humans changes much faster, and the key to survival is adaptation.  Efficiency (Chickens in chains) only leads to dead ends.

So this technology since it will not be likely to go away, can be used to extend human abilities, where a cyborg more suitable for alien environments could be developed and used as an "Avatar", to extend the spectrum of "Human" experiences, and the ability to manipulate material goods for life support (Wealth).  However, moral thinking is required.  To cause suffering would be wrong, and I actually believe that anything founded on cruelty must eventually fall.

So for my opionion I would say the brain of this thing must be more or less cybernetic, and not actually self aware when not connected to a human mind.

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