robots on the surface with humans in orbit

xafwodahs · 2007-12-10 22:04:32

I was just watching a youtube video of Toyota's new violin playing robot and subsequently was watching an episode of "Mars Rising" and considered the possibility of using highly dexterous robots on the surface and keeping the humans in Martian orbit. This would eliminate the risks of landing and return to orbit, but would allow nearly instantaneous interaction with the happenings on the surface.

Maybe this has already been considered, but I've never heard it mentioned before.

Any thoughts?

cIclops · 2007-12-11 04:03:11

Hi xafwodahs!

Like most ideas this one has been around awhile. One proposal is to operate surface robots from Phobos or Deimos. Surface robots are powerful exploration machines when directed by a team of experts, but they are very limited compared with a skilled person actually there. Keeping the operators in orbit would mean keeping them for years in micro gravity with all the health issues. A time lag of several minutes is not such a big deal for survey and even inspection work - see how much the MERs have done - so it's not a good trade to risk people in Mars orbit just to eliminate the lag.

Tom Kalbfus · 2007-12-15 08:28:21

Hi xafwodahs!
Like most ideas this one has been around awhile. One proposal is to operate surface robots from Phobos or Deimos. Surface robots are powerful exploration machines when directed by a team of experts, but they are very limited compared with a skilled person actually there. Keeping the operators in orbit would mean keeping them for years in micro gravity with all the health issues. A time lag of several minutes is not such a big deal for survey and even inspection work - see how much the MERs have done - so it's not a good trade to risk people in Mars orbit just to eliminate the lag.

A manned mission to Venus might be considered on that basis though. The orbital stay time is less from Venusian orbit. The rovers would have to be fairly durable to operate on the surface of Venus over long periods of time. I wonder, suppose we Adapted the Aries Architecture and allowed the same mass budget to low Earth orbit for a manned Venus expedition as for a Mars mission, that is 6 Ares V rockets and an Ares I rocket. The Orion capsule would have to be adapted for Venusian operations. There would need to be a provision for a long term stay in orbit, and a robust rover, one that keeps all of its electronic components refrigerated. If the rover was the size of a hab with large prominent radiator fins, and a nuclear power plant to power the refrigerator.

louis · 2008-03-26 20:48:22

Anybody seen the BigDog robot from Boston Dynamics (search on You Tube - it's there)?

It's an amazing beast. It slips on ice and sets itself up on its four legs, just like a deer. It can carry 200lbs or more. Would be very useful exploring Mars or Moon - put a camera on it. Also would be v. useful in laying supplies (oxygen/food/solar power points/mini inflatables) at strategic points.

SpaceNut · 2018-10-13 17:42:44

I knew there was a topic for this article....Boston Dynamics’ battery-powered bot has moved beyond jogging and performing back flips..

Watch Boston Dynamics' Atlas robot do parkour and try not to squirm; Some people find the bot's remarkable agility unsettling.

181012-robot-boston-dynamics-2x1-mn-1630_020294623b3385460c0485ec5a5ff91f.fit-2000w.gif

This is quite the feat for robotics that moves untethered to a computer feed.

This robot once programed could do many things on mars...

louis · 2018-10-13 19:15:05

Amazing, but potentially v useful on Mars if it can be space-proofed. I don't think the energy feed is an issue...it could plug in regularly to a rover for a top up.

SpaceNut wrote:

I knew there was a topic for this article....Boston Dynamics’ battery-powered bot has moved beyond jogging and performing back flips..
Watch Boston Dynamics' Atlas robot do parkour and try not to squirm; Some people find the bot's remarkable agility unsettling.
https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/ … -2000w.gif
This is quite the feat for robotics that moves untethered to a computer feed.
This robot once programed could do many things on mars...

elderflower · 2018-10-14 03:54:54

I think that might just be a man in a suit!

SpaceNut · 2018-10-14 18:30:23

We might need to be more afraid then of the Essays reveal Stephen Hawking predicted new race of 'superhumans' where the rich would chose to alter the and edit their own or their children’s DNA. With the chance to play God....

“I am sure that during this century people will discover how to modify both intelligence and instincts such as aggression,” he wrote.
“Laws will probably be passed against genetic engineering with humans. But some people won’t be able to resist the temptation to improve human characteristics, such as memory, resistance to disease and length of life.”

The ablity to enhanced memory, disease resistance, intelligence and longevity are just some features that they might strive to change....

Belter · 2018-10-17 12:44:06

I actually have a basic concept for a Magnus Robot Fighter movie that is based on 1A using advanced genetic engineering to create and raise Magnus as he sees the directions things are going. Though I don't think that The Titan makes any sense. If we can't save Earth, we can't live on Titan. And if we can live on Titan, we can definitely save the Earth.

I think the telepresence idea makes a lot more sense in conjunction with a 1G space station in orbit. it would be about as fun as living in a Mars Base, but with a better view and regular gravity. This would allow for the mining of Phobos and/or Deimos, the construction of ships and and more stations, the construction of useful communications, science and GPS satellites built right in orbit.

It is also possible that Phobos has a lot of cave structures in it, or could provide more easy access to more useful metals. it could be mined with the idea of creating a basic 0G station with the ingredients all around you. It would be interesting to see what some small explosive charges would do to dust it off some areas to look for cave entrances, assuming there are some. It supposedly is something like 30% empty.

SpaceNut · 2018-10-17 17:29:49

Just think of emtying all of one's concisous being into the electronics of the brain for the robot we would be able to live forever and do so much more as this new being....

Belter · 2018-10-18 08:14:30

Except that it is your body that gives you consciousness, not the data in your head.

RobertDyck · 2018-10-18 11:51:05

Very bad idea. Mars has no magnetosphere so Mars orbit has as much radiation as deep space. That's 2 to 3 times ISS depending whether the Sun is at minimum or maximum. Mars surface has 1/2 radiation of ISS, or 1/4 Mars orbit. A Hab on Mars surface can use regolith (Mars dirt) for shielding, but anything in orbit (spacecraft or station) must bring everything with. Orbit has micrometeoroids; they burn up in Mars atmosphere 30km above the surface. A spacecraft has zero-G, but you want an artificial gravity station? How big is that? What does it take to build it? And the surface has resources that can be used for fuel, air, water, and various things like soil for a greenhouse. Once the base has mining/refining/manufacturing you can make spare parts. Orbit only has what you bring with you.

Mars surface is the safest place in our solar system, second only to the surface of Earth. Never ever ever leave astronauts stranded in Mars orbit.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2018-10-18 11:54:30)

Belter · 2018-10-18 12:13:01

1 word -

Activemagneticshielding

RobertDyck · 2018-10-18 12:22:28

Mini-magnetoshere would protect against charged particle radiation, such as proton radiation from the Sun, but not micrometeorites. Plasma window would protect against micrometeorites but not radiation. You would need both. If you do both, that's effectively shields like Star Trek. Do you realize how much power that would take? And two new technologies have to be developed.

Simpler solution: Mars Direct.

And Robert Zubrin didn't like the tweeks I proposed for his plan. Yours is radically different.

Void · 2018-10-18 13:13:11

In the event that the Mars low gravity is not heathy for adults or children, then if humans want to use the planet, they must largely be in orbit. That would mean magnetic shields, and protection by moon mass (Phobos, Demos, and Near Mars Objects).

Even when you would be dealing with small synthetic gravity space stations, you should be able to make a "Garage" to put the station inside of. Made from bricks of moon materials. That then would also allow the placing of extensive solar cells on the outside of the garage.

The garage would offer some protections from the harsh environment such as thermal variations, micrometeorites, and some radiation.

For the rest you might want a magnetic shield.

So it is not never, it is preferred not to, until it becomes possible to put a magnetic shield around the whole planet, and also until it becomes valuable to have extensive activities in the Mars Orbitsphere.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2018-10-18 13:14:23)

Belter · 2018-10-18 14:32:45

There are plenty of ways to minimize the danger of micrometeorites. And if you use materials from Phobos, a space station can be as heavy and overbuilt as you want. Robot labor.

But it won't be until after we're all dead so.......

Last edited by Belter (2018-10-18 14:33:16)

SpaceNut · 2018-11-21 16:10:55

Not much of a body only a head but we got to start somewhere with AI.

cimon-crew-interactive-mobile-companion-astronaut-aid-iss-artificial-intelligence-ai-hg.jpg

Crew assistant CIMON successfully completes first tasks in space

kbd512 · 2018-11-21 17:21:14

A talking hockey puck?

That can't possibly be the best that German scientists can come up with.

SpaceNut · 2018-11-21 21:35:37

We tend to think that they should be futuristic in capability.

Meet the robots looking for fuel after Fukushima's Daiichi nuclear disaster

The earthquake struck March 11, 2011, causing several huge tsunami waves that swamped Daiichi, cutting power to the seaside facility's cooling pumps. Three reactors melted down, creating up to 3,000 tons of deadly radioactive fuel and debris that lays in the plant's ruins.

Terraformer · 2018-11-22 05:13:20

Now *this* is what an AI for the ISS should look like.

kbd512 · 2018-11-22 06:25:06

Maybe it's just me, but I'm waiting for robots that actually do something that an iPad doesn't do.

A talking Etch-A-Sketch wasn't what I had in mind.

elderflower · 2018-11-22 06:36:48

And it mustn't be called HAL.

RobertDyck · 2018-11-22 11:15:05

elderflower wrote:

And it mustn't be called HAL.

The name "HAL" was an acronym, but that was an excuse. In reality, each letter is just the one in the alphabet before IBM. Computers on Space Shuttle were made by IBM. The new computer on ISS was made by Hewlett Packard. When they install an artificial intelligence by IBM...

SpaceNut · 2018-11-29 20:07:52

This is sort of interesting SpaceBok robotic hopper being tested at ESA's Mars Yard

ESA's 8 x 8 m Mars Yard 'sandbox', filled with different sizes of sand, gravel, and rock, is part of the Planetary Robotics Laboratory at the Agency's ESTEC technical centre in Noordwijk, the Netherlands.

The reason for Legged robots is that they can traverse unstructured terrain. Places that wheels can not go.

SpaceNut · 2018-12-20 20:22:05

Self-driving rovers tested in Mars-like Morocco

Looks like a scorpion...

Robots invaded the Sahara Desert for Europe's largest rover field test, taking place in a Mars-like part of Morocco. For two weeks three rovers and more than 40 engineers tested automated navigation systems at up to five different sites.
"Lab testing of the hardware we design doesn't take account of the variability nature brings, from the light of the sky to the shape of the landscape, the texture and colours of the sand and rock. Operating outdoors in this way proves that our systems work in much more complex and elaborate settings than can ever be simulated.
"To give an example during this field test, the very smoothness and homogeneity of some of the big sand dunes proved difficult for computer vision algorithms to navigate, because they are based on identifying features based on difference, so they started to behave in unexpected ways we haven't seen before.

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#1 2007-12-10 22:04:32

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#2 2007-12-11 04:03:11

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#3 2007-12-15 08:28:21

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#4 2008-03-26 20:48:22

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#5 2018-10-13 17:42:44

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#6 2018-10-13 19:15:05

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#7 2018-10-14 03:54:54

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#8 2018-10-14 18:30:23

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#9 2018-10-17 12:44:06

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#10 2018-10-17 17:29:49

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#11 2018-10-18 08:14:30

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#12 2018-10-18 11:51:05

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#13 2018-10-18 12:13:01

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#14 2018-10-18 12:22:28

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#15 2018-10-18 13:13:11

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#16 2018-10-18 14:32:45

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#17 2018-11-21 16:10:55

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#18 2018-11-21 17:21:14

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#19 2018-11-21 21:35:37

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#20 2018-11-22 05:13:20

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#21 2018-11-22 06:25:06

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#22 2018-11-22 06:36:48

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#23 2018-11-22 11:15:05

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#24 2018-11-29 20:07:52

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

#25 2018-12-20 20:22:05

Re: robots on the surface with humans in orbit

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