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http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/06 … aunch.html
I'm sure they'll learn both limitations and new tricks while they're up there!(not people; not yet, but soon enough I think!)
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Swell...
...but how will you get tourists and logistics to it?
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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this is only a first step in the test phase, they plan to laung a lot of other test items before the real thing, so he still has time to worry about that...
I hope Genesis 1 wqill prove to be successful, this could be another groundswell...
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Yeah, but Bigelow's credibility is pretty tenuous I think, if his hotel is always "just ten more years" down the road, then nobody is going to take him seriously. Even assuming that Genesis and the inflatable habitat idea does pan out pretty soon, it is equally fatal to his credibility if there is no practical way to reach it.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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He got it up there didn't he? I think the important point is he makes space stations cheaper and maybe even interplanetary spacecraft. Cheap rockets are of course still a problem . . . .
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From blog link;
Genesis-1 into the target orbit of 550 kilometers altitude at 64 degrees inclination
the module’s internal battery is at a full charge of 26 volts indicating that the solar arrays were deployed.
The internal temperature of the spacecraft is reported to be 26 degrees Celsius and we have acquired the spacecraft’s Global Positioning System (GPS) signal that will enable us to track the ship in flight
The expandable module has reached 8 feet in diameter under an automated sequence.
Maybe we will get some shots of this from the ISS while the crew is still in orbit.
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Man, this is great, they already achieved the hardest part of the mission: successful deployment.
re: GCNRevenger, I think his crediblity is today at an all time high, just because he successfully put something into orbit, unlike 99% of other private firms.
And his long testphase is good IMO... Now other firms have a goal to reach for: "This Bigalow thing is real, it is up there, all he needs is now a way to get there, (which he already can with Soyuzes), but imagine we could do it cheaper, faster etc... We'd own private spaceflight $$$"
Finally there's a destination, other than ISS (the Gummint thing) where entrepeneurs can reach out to...
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The most amazing thing about this is that Bigelow now *owns* a piece of orbital space. No other private individual (or any single government) can boast the same thing.
Bigelow also owns the underlying technology, which means that anyone else who wants to follow (assumming positive field trials) will have to either purchase the product from him, or the technology from him.
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. . . and unlike iss, Bigalow can do materials experiments.
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Um? Nooo...
No life support
No cooling
No equipment hookups/tie downs
No way to get experiments up
No way to get experiments down
No way to get astronauts to the station cheaply
No way to get astronauts into the thing (no hatch)
No fine attitude control for docking
No communications to speak of beyond a little telemetry
...the list goes on
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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. . . more brownie points for crn;
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GCN, perhaps you are confused. No, strike that, you're quite accurate, and just as far off the mark as you usually are. It's nice to see that time has done nothing to improve you, your outlook, or your inability to approach any topic in other than a rigid monotonous manner.
I wonder what bothers you more- the fact that some half crazed rich mono-maniac has managed to succeed towards a goal where you have continually predicted utter failure, or that you are so burned that you reflexively assume a negative interpretation of every positive development in space development that you suffer from a need to down-play in order to protect your fragile ego.
Genesis, as I am certain you are well aware of, is the first test phase for an eventual full scale inflatable space station. Bigelow said he would launch the thing, and he did it- he did it almost exactly on the timeline he planned.
There are two more going up as part of the testing process. Bigelow has back-up plans for launch in the event of Falcon not being ready.
As for rides to the thing- Bigelow is putting up 50 million as a prize to solve that little problem. You have multiple groups all working toward the same goal- humans to orbit. You can scoff all you want, but a non-governmental orbital platform that has a realistic chance of working (unless you have the unmitigated gall to somehow question the underlying technology of the inflatable hab- originally developed by NASA) will only increase interest in private orbital rides.
As for the experiment side of the equation, think beyond your own self conceited notions of how the world should operate. NASA will solve that problem since part of their budget is for cargo delivery (both to and from) for ISS. Bigelow inflatable’s are using the same size docking collars as the ISS. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that what works for the ISS will work for Bigelow.
Come up with a better argument you blowhard.
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One of the reason i do come to this website is to see GCN rant. He has the ability like no other to poke holes at Alt.space ventures and make it funny.
"...all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by."
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Meh. To each their own.
GCN doesn't poke holes in alt space though. He pokes holes in the delusional rantings of the poor misguided freaks that people the hard-core sci-fi un-reality of cyber space fantasy. That's his sport.
But it is about as funny as watching kids beat a sack full of puppies to death with an oversized rock.
In other words, it's usually enjoyable if you're into that kind of thing.
But there is no art to his style.
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well, if it makes everybody feel better, my father is the same way(as Gcr); i can't help noticing that I've never had a conversation about physics/cosmological ideas with my father; this guy was raised in a garage and the garage was a chemistry set; he's got a physics degree and masters in aerospace engineering; he's worked on the apollo rocketdine engines and the space shuttle and he was in charge of the star wars program, but he just doesn't care about science anymore!
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. . . and unlike iss, Bigalow can do materials experiments.
Um? Nooo...
No life support
No cooling
No equipment hookups/tie downs
No way to get experiments up
No way to get experiments down
No way to get astronauts to the station cheaply
No way to get astronauts into the thing (no hatch)
No fine attitude control for docking
No communications to speak of beyond a little telemetry
...the list goes on
Actually, when looking to what GCNRevenger was referring to, which was the preceeding post, then his post makes a great deal of sense.
I believe Flashgordon was referring to long range plans, not the capability of the current Bigelow "Genesis" module.
But if Bigelow is half as smart as I'm thinking they are, there is a design in place for this module to be able to have all that in the future. The artist's conception gives me the distinct impression that there is a docking port at the end opposite the end the panels connect on. That way, if the hull test is successful, it could have the other necessary equipment installed. And I bet that equipment is in storage awaiting that day, or exists in plans. After all, it cost $75M to get it up there. Why throw it away? No sense in that. Can't squander resources in space, after all.
Sure people dream about space travel. There's nothing wrong with that. Everything humankind has made, was once but a dream.
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Is what Bigalow did great?
Well, yes!
May they do other great things in space?
That might be possible too and I wish them well too.
But, will Bigalow be the barn burner that get private enterprise going in space over the next ten to twenty or even thirty years into the future?
No! At least not with present technology there not going to do it.
If they were to make those technological breakthroughs, then could they do it?
Possibly, but I would still doubt that they could do it even then. Bigalow isn't making any money doing this and the next space project or continuing Geniuses, Bigalow will have to invest more money to finance doing. There is currently no possibility of Bigalow getting a return on his investment now or ever or even to develop a self-sustaining Hotel business in space or anything else in space for that matter. Eventually, this Bigalow money for space has to run dry and that will be the end of Bigalow space. Without something like the US Government buying a Bigalow habitat or two for either the ISS Space Station or Lunar Basses, Bigalow will eventually go under for lack of financial resources. That just the way it works. Even those rich kids going to a Bigalow Hotel in Space would be out of even there price range, so even that wouldn’t work either.
Larry,
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Bigelow expects to spend up to 500 mil before his first full-scale station is in orbit, and he always said he was not worried about losing money, he did it because he wanted it to happen.
BTW. they're looking for ideas to commercialise their stuff... http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/command/index.php
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That 500 million figure seems pretty dang reasonsable if you ask me. Not overly optimistic at all.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
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It's good to see a private group have some success. Just as government programs had years of trial and error to make their programs in space work, so will the private sector, that is just the way it is. But in the end we need to stop comparing the private sector to the government because it is a false analogy. Compare private with private and your perspective will change. I know the government space programs are THE standard when it comes to measuring progress of private companies but these private companies are also at a disadvantage because of national security/military issues taking precedence over their desire to get their hands on more advanced information for their own vehicles/programs. You can't expect private companies to achieve the standards of the government when they are being kept in the dark like they have been. Maybe they hype things up too much and engineering purists don't like that but you have to remember that these private companies need customers and profits(unlike a tax funded system). All private companies work on selling "the dream"(it's called advertising). But in the end I agree that if they can't live up to their hype they will do the whole humans in space movement a big disservice and alot of damage. There always needs to be balance in all things, and while I am an avid private sector fan, I also appreciate comments from people like GCN.
Private are not in the same league as government, they are creating their own path to space and while there are similarities there are also vast differences. It would be nice to see governments in the world get some real vision again when it comes to space exploration and settlement but that can't be counted on. At least the private sector can pursue space according to their own visions, not what is dictated to them by a stale government system. It may take longer(possibly a lot longer) but it is the future.
welcome to [url=http://www.marsdrive.net]www.marsdrive.net[/url]
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Another disadvantage: private companies have to make a profit eventually; government can blow billions of taxpayer for pure scientific results or even zero results (see the gazillions of started and then scrapped projects post shuttle (X series)
Also, they can build launchers that are 'uneconomical', like the shuttle and get away with it, imagine a private company developing the shuttle, they'd be bancrupt in years, the shuttle being n amazing and unique launcher, but totally uneconomical (extreme cost of launch, too complex to refurbish etc etc...)
This makes Elon's undertaking all the more heroical.
One could say that Bigelow has it fairly 'easy', because he can choose 'subsidized' launchers, since non of the current launchers has no governmental involvement, so their real cost is even higher than what you pay for, in the end... Heck, Musk's babies will be still more expensive than the Russians, very probably, but the advantage of a domestic market (paperwork) will make it more attractive to American users.
Interesting times...
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Rxke,
At least Bigalow Aerospace is doing some new developments and also building modules for space habitats that could reduce the overall costs into space. But it has also shown that you don't need billions of dollars to do it get into space. Private enterprise could even get to mars with a probe or rover at a reduced cost, We need to stop kicking the alternative space companies and embrace them.
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But that just isn't true MartianTristar, Bigelow has done no such thing; all he has done is proven that true orbital commercial spaceflight isn't viable with present technology sans government assistance.
The technology for Bigelow's habs is a direct ripoff of the aborted NASA TransHab project.
The launch vehicle for Bigelow's habs is an old surplus Russian ICBM, which is not a viable means of regular launch.
A real launch vehicle of the minimum scale and possibly acceptable price is still more artists' conception than hardware (SpaceX Falcon-V/IX or T/Space QuickLaunch).
And the cost of the development, $500M, would bankrupt any private venture that aimed to actually make money. Bigelow's admission that he never intends to make a dime is proof, even an admission of surrender, that commercial space without government help is not happening any time soon.
If Bigelow, with deep pockets and exclusive rights to advanced technology handed to him for free doesn't think he can make any money with his relatively modest space station, then what does that say?
AltSpace, so long as its future is tied to conventional rockets, cannot thrive on its own... at least not without a push. A government push. SpaceX would probably not be in business if not for USAF "overpaying" in the hope of nurturing a less expensive domestic rocket. Orbital hotels are not going to happen without government subsidsy of at least an semi-reuseable advanced launch vehicle. Lunar mining is not going to happen without government establishing a fuel depot/repair base/flare shelter/mining test site.
AltSpace has failed and will continue to fail without government help of some nature. I should think that is rather clear by now.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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I still think it's nice that someone is trying on a private level. Who cares about commercial, throw some of your private money at it, I say.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
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I still think it's nice that someone is trying on a private level. Who cares about commercial, throw some of your private money at it, I say.
Nice dream, but even that won't work. Besides who wants to give away there money, because somebody has a dream? Would you give me money, because I have a dream?
The point is Josh Cryer, Private enterprise in space will go virtually nowhere in space without a major government backing them up. What Bigelow did was great. But remember they borrowed the tecnology from one of the two main Space faring nation and had to launch it into space by going to the other main Space faring nation. Like come on Josh Cryer, think about what your saying and then compare it to what really going on in the real world.
Larry,
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