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#1 2006-07-04 10:25:37

Simon
Member
Registered: 2006-07-04
Posts: 3

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

If an ocean like the one below has been on Mars, where is the water now? Any explanations?
ancientmarsocean.jpg

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#2 2006-07-08 10:07:07

Belinda
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-03
Posts: 31

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

It's a nice picture, but let's read your conjecture...

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#3 2006-07-08 11:00:24

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Mars doesn't have a magnetosphere and a lower gravity; at least part of the H2O got split into H2 and O2, through radiation, and escaped into space; another part is frozen at the poles, and there seem to be vast subsurface icemasses...

The picture you posted... There probably wasn't *that* much water, but there is now reasonably good proof there was at least some open water in the past, either seas or very big pools..


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#4 2006-07-09 04:21:15

Simon
Member
Registered: 2006-07-04
Posts: 3

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Thank you for your reply, Rxke.
I got this picture from the NASA homepage and was really surprised that there should have been that much water. I thought at the poles, there is mostly frozen CO2?
Simon

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#5 2006-07-09 05:03:37

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

It is possible that there was that much water, once, but it is not proven... yet.
I said 'probably less' because I tend to be on the cautious side. (I'm not a planetary scientist, heehee, but there's so much different opinions published...)
The MER rovers, currently on mars found firm evidence of standing water in the past, but exactly how much... That's still open to a lot of interpretations.

The NASA picture depicts one of the possibilities, and some planetary scientists think they can see an ancient shoreline, so it is not totally impossible.

And yes, most of the polar caps are CO2 during winter, but there's still quite an amount of water-ice during summers still there. So you see these caps very noticeably shrink and grow in size, every Martian year.


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#6 2006-07-09 05:18:14

Simon
Member
Registered: 2006-07-04
Posts: 3

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Thank you very much for this information.
I really think this is an exciting topic and hope that we will soon have better knowledge.
Simon

PS: Please excuse my english.

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#7 2006-07-09 07:24:00

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Your English is so good, I did not for one moment think you were not from an English-speaking country.

But I'm a Belgian, so maybe I'm not the best one around to judge these kind of things, heehee!


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#8 2007-03-23 02:48:27

RickSmith
Member
From: Vancouver B.C.
Registered: 2007-02-17
Posts: 244

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Hi everyone,
I think that there was a small ocean in the northern polar basin.

The evidence for this is that there are two landforms that look like they are beaches and hills eroded at a constant level from wave action.  Also the northern plain is really flat.  Flatter than the Earth's abysmal plains. 

Now I was cheating a little when I said constant level.  Some areas of eroded cliff land forms (if that is what they are) are at higher levels.  However that could be explained by the rising and lowering of land caused by the Tharis Bulge.


As for where the ocean is gone, some of the water has disassociated and the hydrogen was lost.  But a lot of the water is still right there, frozen as permafrost and covered with dust, and rubble from small meteorite strikes.

This is (fairly briefly) discussed in:

"Mars: A Warmer Wetter Planet" by Dr Jeffrey S. Kargel.

Warm regards, Rick.

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#9 2007-03-30 00:40:46

RedStreak
Member
From: Illinois
Registered: 2006-05-12
Posts: 541

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Regarding that H2O evaporation...likely as it is no one has actually gathered concrete evidence if it really happens.  Yes UV light splits water up but theory and proof can be worlds apart.

MAVEN and MARVEL, the Discovery Program projects NASA is funding and will chose for the next Mars Scout mission will both focus on the Martian atmosphere.  Depending on what they kind...and also what New Horizon finds about Pluto's atmosphere and its even flimbsier atmosphere, we can make better deductions about what became of the Martian vapors.

Given the Martian physical features and comparing them to Earth with its ocean floor...yeah I agree the Northern Hemisphere must have once been drenched in water once.  Given that water flows to the lowest spot...hey where else will it drain to aside from Hellas in the south?

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#10 2007-10-27 05:00:44

m1omg
Member
From: Q Continuum
Registered: 2007-07-03
Posts: 70

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

If an ocean like the one below has been on Mars, where is the water now? Any explanations?
ancientmarsocean.jpg

Well, I think that the current theory says that the oceans were huge but shallow.
And a good portion of it is in the regolith now.
There is still enough water on Mars now to flood entire planet with 35 m deep water.
Your thinking is too simple.The water will not simply freeze on the surface, it is frozen in the regolith, polar caps, a bit of it is in the atmosphere...

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#11 2007-11-02 01:18:06

maxie
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 84

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

There might just be an answer in an article I just read:

[url=http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12866-vast-amount-of-water-ice-may-lie-on-martian-equator.html]Vast amount of water ice may lie on Martian equator
[/url]


The question is: is it ice or volcanic ash ?

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#12 2008-04-13 13:11:29

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

I think some of the water did freeze before it evaporated.

The question is, is it gone or sill there?

http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Mars_Express/S … M4E_1.html

Vincent

2411269956_36821501e8_o.jpg


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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#13 2008-04-13 13:23:32

noosfractal
Member
From: Biosphere 1
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 824
Website

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

I think some of the water did freeze before it evaporated.

The question is, is it gone or sill there?

Hi Vincent, welcome to New Mars.

Here are some maps made by the Mars Odyssey probe showing the mass fraction of water in the first meter (3 ft) or so of Martian soil ...

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/galler … 0724a.html

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/galler … 04907.html


Fan of Red Oasis

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#14 2008-04-13 13:57:14

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Interesting maps and point to a very active hydro cycle

We know a couple of things for sure:

Mars has global dust storms on a regular bases so any water in the first 3 ft is recent. With the low daytime humidity values it could not survive for long in that environment.

All of the spacecraft have shown areas of catastrophic surface eruptions, floods. The rover Opportunity has seen evidence of recent ground water eruptions. Ground water is still the source.

Sol 120 Oppy

Vincent
1341414193_4d47d892ef_o.jpg


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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#15 2008-04-13 18:25:30

JoshNH4H
Member
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,526
Website

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Welcome to newmars.

that feature is clearly caused by liquid, but are we sure it's water?


-Josh

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#16 2008-04-13 18:49:27

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Good question.

We know water is there in frozen form. We know that the pressure at the surface is above the triple point of water or 6.1 millibars. We know that the temperatures in this region have reached +95F. We know that water can stay liquid on Earth to -10F.

So we have water on the planet and all the parameters have been met so it could be water.

We know CO2 is there in the form of ice. The surface pressure is well below the 5000 millibars needed for liquid CO2. Temperatures would need to be below  -80C. So pressure and Temp would rule out liquid CO2.

I know of no other possibilities, maybe some one else does.

I believe CO2 gas is the subterranean propellant as water rises closer to the surface and CO2 is released from the water.

Hear is another eruption area close to Endurance crater. Nice vent in the red box.

Vincent
2384275199_9e7eda7ed3_o.jpg


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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#17 2008-04-13 19:31:29

JoshNH4H
Member
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,526
Website

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

how big is that image?

I've heard that H2O2/ H2O solutions could be liquid down to -57 C.


-Josh

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#18 2008-04-14 04:08:34

Vincent
Member
From: North Carolina USA
Registered: 2008-04-13
Posts: 623

Re: Where is this ocean gone?

Hydrogen peroxide would take it down for sure, As far as size the images is a standard MER jpeg.

Vincent


Argument expected.
I don't require agreement when presenting new ideas.

-Dana Johnson

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