I'm Wanting To Write A Book About Manned Mission To Jupiter

Dayton Kitchens · 2006-03-12 13:39:30

My book about a mission to Jupiter envisions a mission launched around 2033. Not too many years after the first manned Mars missions.

I've read that using nuclear electric propulsion, it would take about 27 months to get to Jupiter.

Assuming 27 months there, and 27 months back, what would be the minimal stay time at Jupiter (on Callisto specifically)?

Also, I envision my mission as having 12 astronauts (6 flight crew, 6 science crew).

I also figured about 500 to 600 tons of spacecraft and crew delivered to Callisto.

Would this be enough?

and assuming 500 to 600 tons of spacecraft and crew delivered to Callisto by nuclear propulsion, how large would the spacecraft have to be leaving Earth orbit?

Note, the mission utilizes in situ resources on Callisto for both life support and fuel for the return trip.

Finally, my book needs a catchy name.

Help?

Rxke · 2006-03-14 02:30:17

What about 'pre-staging'?

ie: send up hardware in advance, like the current DRM's will probably do.
That way you could shave off quite a bit of your huge launch-requirements...

"a meeting with up-close with the red-eyed giant" heehee. (Since it looks like Jupiter is aquiring a second giant spot...)

cIclops · 2006-03-14 07:16:46

My book about a mission to Jupiter envisions a mission launched around 2033. Not too many years after the first manned Mars missions.

Okay let's start here. We all hope that the first Mars mission will be a lot sooner than 2030, but if it's really that late I would expect missions to the asteroid belt (as well as NEOs) before one to Jupiter was attempted. If you want a more realistic scenario, put the Jupiter mission at least 10 years after Mars, notwithstanding the discovery of a black obelisk

ps one big problem with human missions to Jupiter is radiation.

Dayton Kitchens · 2006-03-14 07:52:20

Radiation is much less an issue if you limit the crewed mission to Callisto and telerobotically explore the other moons and Jupiters atmosphere from there.

And yeah, the prestaging idea is a very sound and reasonable one.

Commodore · 2006-03-14 18:55:35

On timelines, 2033 is probably a bit optomistic even for Mars. Then again I envision an extensive lunar program and a series of NEO missions leading to a much more extentive series of missions to Mars in the 2040's range than the DRM. Foothold missions to the gas giants would follow.

I'm not sure how much mass your going to save by prepositionong, because your going to need every bit of whats on your transit craft on the surface, and then some. Your likely to need two or even three 500-600 ton craft to support all your surface habs, labs, farms and workshops. Plus IRSU equipment, and finally science packages for the other moons.

Dayton Kitchens · 2006-03-15 08:47:08

Well, I'm a starry eyed optimist that hopes (and prays) that once we get away from LEO again that things will really start happening.

MarsDog · 2006-03-19 00:42:19

Finally, my book needs a catchy name.

Jellyfish do not chew their food.

After some misconversions between Imperial and Metric units, the explorers begin skipping like a flat stone across the top of Jupiter's atmosphere. Finally landing in the middle of the giant red spot. The giant jellyfish get an out of planet delicacy. Digesting the humans slowly to extract all the information, a Jupiter technological revolution is started.

Fortunately the Jupiter Jellyfish need high pressures to live and cannot invade Earth directly, but humanoids, remotely controlled, start to show up. Even the Earth Global Empire is suspected to be directly controlled from Jupiter. Hence the long delay between ideas from it's leader.

Dayton Kitchens · 2006-05-05 09:25:52

Finally, my book needs a catchy name.
Jellyfish do not chew their food.
After some misconversions between Imperial and Metric units, the explorers begin skipping like a flat stone across the top of Jupiter's atmosphere. Finally landing in the middle of the giant red spot. The giant jellyfish get an out of planet delicacy. Digesting the humans slowly to extract all the information, a Jupiter technological revolution is started.
Fortunately the Jupiter Jellyfish need high pressures to live and cannot invade Earth directly, but humanoids, remotely controlled, start to show up. Even the Earth Global Empire is suspected to be directly controlled from Jupiter. Hence the long delay between ideas from it's leader.

I really didn't consider the possibility of finding higher lifeforms to be likely.

RobS · 2006-05-05 14:18:17

Regarding the original question about whether one needs a nuclear rocket or not, the answer is: probably. But consider the situation if, when we send humans to Jupiter, we have found usable water deposits at the lunar poles and can set up a fuel depot at L1 between the Earth and moon. The New Horizons spacecraft currently on its way to Pluto left Earth at about 35,000 miles per hour; 10,000 mph (3 km/sec) faster than escape velocity. If will pass Jupiter a mere 12 months after launch (it passed Mars one month after launch!). If a spacecraft is refueled with lunar hydrogen and oxygen at L1, it would not be hard to achieve 35,000 mph using conventional fuels. That suggests a fast mission is easier to achieve than one might think.
Of course, there is still the question of slowing down at Jupiter and coming back to Earth. Gravitational assists using the moons can help a lot, and prepositioning of robotic fuel making equipment on Callisto can help. Maybe a chemical mission is possible. Most likely, a nuclear engine is needed.

-- RobS

GCNRevenger · 2006-05-05 19:29:16

It will still take an awfully large amount of rocket fuel to reach a reasonably high speed to reach Jupiter in the ~1yr timescale, even if departing from L1. It will beyound any doubt though require a gargantuan amount of fuel to launch that fuel from the Lunar surface.

High-energy nuclear from LEO is still the best way to go, inparticularly VASIMR would be well suited with its superior specific impulse, "high thrust setting" for moon-to-moon maneuvers, and its magnetic field might provide some radiation protection.

MarsDog · 2006-05-05 23:05:43

I really didn't consider the possibility of finding higher lifeforms to be likely.

An intelligent being living in a sea of metallic hydrogen would be trapped.
There are a lot of layers with different chemistries where life might develop.
All faced with a difficult escape to space.

Given that the atmosphere is mainly Hydrogen,
a probe would easily sink to denser layers
and could come back up using a hot gas balloon

Aliens from Jupiter have not taken over the Solar System.
But they may be plotting.

MarsDog · 2006-05-11 05:18:17

science documentary movie film on location Jupiter

How did you get the on location scenes ?
Did the creatures in the metallic hydrogen assist ?
What is the temperature at the core ?

Austin Stanley · 2006-05-11 22:34:29

science documentary movie film on location Jupiter
How did you get the on location scenes ?
Did the creatures in the metallic hydrogen assist ?
What is the temperature at the core ?

Come on MarsDog, don't feed the trolls.

RedStreak · 2006-05-12 15:52:54

Since I have done some writing myself I'll give you a few tips:

1) Write about whats essential in the story. Unless a failure occurs in the nuclear rocket, don't elaborate on it; no harm in giving it brief mention but bogging the reader down with the BTUs and the thrust in both Newtons or pounds will only make them slam the book down, or if they're anal-retentive engineers criticize the design.

2) What are the plans/motivations of your characters? If their mission is to find life, find ways to incorporate (or even 'dis'corporate for a few disfucntional crew) this to them. Why would NASA or whatever agency hire them for such a mission? Even if you have aliens star, its more likely the story will be told from a human perspective.

3) Read...or watch a good movie. In this case I suggest 2010 - that inspired me as a kid to get into space exploration. You aren't going to steal ideas, but it could help jar ideas - give you possibilities. Like "What if the Leonov sent a manned craft into that crater instead of that prove...? What if the Leonov WAS the craft?"

Use common sense, and if a particular scene is bogging you down or giving you writer's block...just move onto the next scene. The reader must be kept moving in the story one way or another to keep their mind flowing.

RedStreak · 2006-05-12 16:18:34

Now for more 'technical' suggestions...

It would definetely be wise to establish a rough outline of the ship. Crew quarters, galley...of course if this is based off NASA as opposed to Star Trek there won't be such a thing as a 'science station' per say.

I assume you're going to have an orbiter/lander combo. For such a situation I recommend having the 'orbiter' section being essentially a segment of the ISS truss (I say this in terms of apperance) with the Nuclear Electric Drive, main Nuclear Reactor, and long-range science instruments. The 'lander' would house just about everything else, including most obviously the crew quarters.

In short, picture the Discovery from 2001 and 2010 - the long shaft would be the orbiter section and the round ball would be the lander section - the two decouple and reattach. Just add deployable legs to the ball of the Discovery and you have a working lander.

I think 600 tons is a bit much. I don't think even the ISS is half that in its yet-to-be-built full configuration. I'd think maybe 100, 200 - something a little bigger than Robert Zubrin's configuration for Mars Direct but not outrageously big. No way any space agency will build or assemble something 600 tons, not on a budget.

Now trajectory: unless you have a celestial mechanics program of some kind I don't know if there's way to work out the timing for a Mars Gravity Assist Fly-by, so it'll likely be direct. Fortunately Jupiter aligns itself with Earth once a year - it doesn't move too much relative to Earth so its simple to get to assuming you have the fuel. The Nuclear Electric Drive would be enough to put the craft on a two-year outward jaunt - possibly one year if in your story the reactor's large and electric propulsion is advanced enough.

Orbit insersion - again I assume the electric drive. Aerobraking at Jupiter is too risky Leonov style - your arrival velocity is huge compared to Mars - Galileo's probe had enough trouble and working to make it bounce off the atmosphere just right on top of that is impossible. As long as the craft stays beyond Ganymede no radiation worries. The orbiter could be left at a LaGrange Point in Callisto's orbit - that would make it an effective communication satellite, so long as the crew land on the hemisphere facing the satellite (if they land away...well that could make an interesting twist ).

Once mission at Callisto is complete, lander melts some ice, electrolosis, refuel, and launched back to orbiter to recouple and cruise back to Earth.

MarsDog · 2006-05-15 01:21:27

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/jupiter/interior.html

A Sea of Liquid Hydrogen 40,000 km deep, metallic.
What kind of monsters devising ways to get out ?

Austin Stanley · 2006-05-15 12:52:02

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/jupiter/interior.html
A Sea of Liquid Hydrogen 40,000 km deep, metallic.
What kind of monsters devising ways to get out ?

Monsters that probably cannot live in our extreamly low-pressure, toxic, freezing cold terrestrial oxygen atmosphere.

MarsDog · 2006-05-15 16:12:18

Instead of water, the working fluid is protons and electrons.
Hydrogen bonds have collapsed but other bonds are stronger.

The monsters spend their time watching TV from Earth and
designing alternate fluid bodies with their quantum computers.

Then a solution is found.

Dayton Kitchens · 2006-07-06 09:56:28

I haven't gotten back to this in awhile.

But I decided to add tension to the book by having a major Earth wide military conflict break out while the ship is at Callisto.

Not one that would endanger the crew returning to Earth, but one that disrupts communications (conventional cruise missile attacks on Kennedy Space Center and Johnson Space Center) and rises tensions among the crew of which I have three international members. One from ESA, one from Russia, and a Japanese astronaut).

publiusr · 2006-08-11 15:19:05

Tug concepts:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/intaltug.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/stages/erta.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/engines/11b97.htm

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-08-22 14:32:25

Can I assume you are not going to turn Jupiter into a Star?

Dayton Kitchens · 2006-08-27 18:22:16

Can I assume you are not going to turn Jupiter into a Star?

I had not planned to.

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