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#1 2006-01-30 05:26:53

maxie
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 84

Re: Some issues

A few issues I think it's better to discuss here (initially posted on the Main Page Talk)

1. I think that all units in all articles should be in the metric system, with English ones put in paranthesis... It's okay ?

2.  Martian or Marsian ? Well, which one to use ? Martian sound too much like martians (the little green things coming to invade Earth - blah)

3. "Main articles." When we need to write a very general article (Mars for example), for each thing discussed there we should put a Main Article link. (See http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Mars for example).
I think i'll create a template for this.

4. Update to Wiki ? I think it's a good idea to update the wiki software to version 1.5.6. It has more features (<noinclude> tags for example, which could be quite useful).

5. Also, it's okay if at the begining we literally take some articles from WikiPedia ? I know, it's not supposed to be a rip-off. They are too general anyway and must be expanded later. But we could start from there. Also, WikiPedia is GNU Free Doc License, and allows to take entire articles.

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#2 2006-01-30 07:16:34

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Some issues

1) Yes and no... I'm European, so of course in favour.. Of course, New Mars is American, and AFAICT metrics are used in science, inches anf stuff in engineering. I can see this will be hard for the tech-heads amongst us (the non-metric tech-heads, that is...)
One can't force someone to write stuff using the metric system, IMHO... If you're unfamiliar with it, it could just be off-putting, so better an article with a mix of measurement-systems than none at all...

2) Depending on context I guess... RobS uses Marsians in his novel, but of course, there are no human-Mars dwellers, for now.

3) good idea. Can then be used as a Featured Article in the future, maybe... Only danger I see is that a Main article describes a lot of different things, that could merit their own page...

4) That's Josh's job, heehee...

5) Sure, as long as it doesn't become a include-everything-for-completeness-sake-even-if-it-has-little-or-no-relationship-with-Mars Wiki. Then you can save yourself the work and search in the 'real' Wikipedia...


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#3 2006-01-30 09:05:16

maxie
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 84

Re: Some issues

1) I think NewMars is international. The fact that's in English and most members are from US doesn't mean it's American. Adrian Hon himself is from UK, if I remember correctly, and there are Mars Society Chapters in many other countries.
Of course, you can't force someone that doesn't know the metric system to use it. But, someone can edit after and also put metrics. The way i did it in http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Mars (the paragraph with temperatures).

2) I was asking for things like: Martian climate vs. Marsian climate. And yes, I got the inspiration from RobS. What do you think ?

3) Well, see the Mars article above. It has information about water on Mars, but there are only common things, not by far enough, so a full article was created, "Water on Mars" (not by me - and it needs to be expanded, BTW). I think it's wise to put inside (for example) the "Mars" article link to "Water on Mars", in the proper context, the way i did. Thus, when someone would like to read more about water on Mars, after reading the Mars article, can easily click there. And yes, I think this adressed exactly the "lot of different things, that could merit their own page" problem.

4) Ok.
Josh ? (Can he hear us ?)

5) Indeed, doing things in that way has no point. But most articles on WikiPedia are too general (and Mars related ones are no exception). There are delicate things you won't see on WikiPedia ever, because it's more of a general encyclopedia. Usually articles there don't get too much into the subject. We might expand those articles even an order of magnitude.

I mean, seriously, in the future there might be enough information on NewMars Wiki to transform it into some kind of Colonist's Manual for Mars. At least, I hope so. It would be great to have everything about Mars on the wiki.

6) New issue: How about other planets ? The Moon ? etc. Is there enough bandwidth and disk space for something like that ?

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#4 2006-01-30 13:14:06

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Some issues

1) I think NewMars is international. The fact that's in English and most members are from US doesn't mean it's American. ... ...someone can edit after and also put metrics.

I agree with it being international, but in practice the chances a wiki-contributer is American is quite high, but as you say -and as I meant to say, but sometimes I have a very hard time expressing stuff- someone can metricize it later.

2) I was asking for things like: Martian climate vs. Marsian climate. And yes, I got the inspiration from RobS. What do you think ?

Heehee RobS adding to the memepool, great!
My first reaction upon reading Martian climate was: 'just say Mars(') climate. but then again, we use lunar day (for example...)
Tricky. What does Steve Squyres and his team (MER) use? I think these people have 'lived' on Mars so long, they must've settled to a pretty solid -and usable- terminology by now...

3) Well, see the Mars article above. ..   ..... And yes, I think this adressed exactly the "lot of different things, that could merit their own page" problem.

Indeed. That looks very good. I was thinking about the life-support page. That one is problematic. Very good article, merits a Main article tag, IMO, with links to more details.

4) Ok.
Josh ? (Can he hear us ?)

Heehee... Josh? JOOOOSH!!! (I feel like a kid in a puppet-theatre)

5) Indeed, doing things in that way has no point. But most articles on WikiPedia are too general (and Mars related ones are no exception). There are delicate things you won't see on WikiPedia ever, because it's more of a general encyclopedia. Usually articles there don't get too much into the subject. We might expand those articles even an order of magnitude.

I mean, seriously, in the future there might be enough information on NewMars Wiki to transform it into some kind of Colonist's Manual for Mars. At least, I hope so. It would be great to have everything about Mars on the wiki.

Grrrreat! By all means: Yessss! I guess initially  the Wiki was meant exactly like that, but in the beginning going was slow, and I (I'm talking for myself here...)  lost 'the spirit'... Thinking it would be 3-5 people adding some stuff, gradually, slowly... too slowly... And whenever I wanted to write something, I saw a better article @ the og. Wikipedia and felt it was futile to try to do something like that... But you made me look at the wiki with fresh eyes... And it is getting there, it is getting there. Enough 'own' material to merit a trawling of the Wikipedia for the usable stuff they have. ... and adapt it to our needs.

6) New issue: How about other planets ? The Moon ? etc. Is there enough bandwidth and disk space for something like that ?

The moon?  :shock:  Traitor!!! I knew it! A Lunatic has infiltrated our ranks!  wink
heehee, sorry.
You mean a separate wiki for Luna, or 'just' extensive coverage of the planet(s)?
I don't think a separate wiki would be wise, but more info about Luna, asteroids, some planets, icy moons would be welcome. The board was originally (so I've read) started in response to Zubrin's Mars Direct books, and I guess starting an all-out encyclopedic effort to document  lunar exploration etc. would be a bit ... Awkward, heehee. If the pro-luna people want a wiki, they should do it themselves, I mean that in a FRIENDLY way, personally I'm not one of those Mars fundamentalists, I do think Luna is a good first step for many things, and an incredibly interesting place for science. So are other planets, comets, asteroids, Deep space etc... So it all can have its place, within reason (I guess)


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#5 2006-01-30 21:54:45

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Some issues

I think a good guideline is to stick with metric (even though the meter is based on some rod in some lab somewhere and not on any actual scientific law, making it almost as arbitrary as imperial; there was some hub hub about it somewhere, stating that the meter should be 'changed' to fit Planck's Constant but don't quote me on that!). edit: seems the meter was standaridzed to the distance that light travels in 1/299,792,458ths of a second, fair enough, ignore my rambling! smile

Adding Moon/other space related things would be no problem, we don't even use 1/5th our allotted bandwidth, and maybe 1/1000th our space.

BTW, maxie, Rxke, good job, you guys are doing great!


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

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#6 2006-01-31 02:12:29

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Some issues

I'm not too active,master thesis...

All the thumbs up should go to the other people!


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#7 2006-01-31 07:59:43

maxie
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 84

Re: Some issues

No, Rxke, i'm not a lunaticlol It's just that by covering things like space travel, life support systems etc., we also cover subjects that apply to other planets too. For example, Rheea could be a good candidate for an outpost (and, if I remember correctly, it's inside Jupiter's magnetic field, protected from radiation).
An no, no separate wikis, ever. Too many articles would be common to both wikis. Too many technologies can be used almost identically on more than just Mars.

Hehe, master thesis Rxke ? Congratulations! I'm working right now for my graduation theme (or however it is called in English ... i'm not sure).

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#8 2006-01-31 10:13:23

C M Edwards
Member
From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Some issues

Regarding the use of units, I find that metric units are generally convenient and more widely recognized, although I do like to employ unofficial units like the millibar and g/L as well.  Perhaps we could have an article with a table of conversion factors for the senior Americans?  (Junior ones tend to already be on the same page with the metric system...)  I considered separate articles for each unit, and actually wrote one for "millibar", but it's really too much trouble when you can just refer them to a table or an encyclopedia.

I mean, seriously, in the future there might be enough information on NewMars Wiki to transform it into some kind of Colonist's Manual for Mars. At least, I hope so. It would be great to have everything about Mars on the wiki.

I am strongly considering this as a guideline for my own work with the Wiki.

We're making room for so many other creative projects in our wiki.  Perhaps an engineering analysis or two would make a nice addition?


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#9 2006-02-28 12:59:24

maxie
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 84

Re: Some issues

1. I'm back. Sorry for my absence. Exams, and then I had to work a lot for a presentation at the university.

2. What's this article ?! ( http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/C … ss_Company ). I don't get it ... spam ?

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#10 2006-02-28 13:07:02

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Some issues

deleted.

*shrugs*

Didn't get it either, but it doesn't belong to the NM Wiki.

(Edit:) probably a very roundabout way to tout free land for projects?


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#11 2006-03-24 08:12:14

C M Edwards
Member
From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Some issues

CIclops has suggested unlocking the Liberum Olympia discussion so that it can be accessed by all New Mars members.  He suggested that this is a good step toward increasing wiki contributions, and I concur. 

At present, any New Mars member can contribute to the wiki.  Why shouldn't they be allowed to contribute to the forum discussion topic, too?


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#12 2006-03-26 08:51:29

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Some issues

I don't understand why he can't post here. Looking in to it.

edit: okay I fixed it, I guess I had membership closed to get people to ask to join the usergroup, but that must not have been clear. Sorry.


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

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#13 2006-03-26 10:26:36

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Some issues

I don't understand why he can't post here. Looking in to it.

edit: okay I fixed it, I guess I had membership closed to get people to ask to join the usergroup, but that must not have been clear. Sorry.

posting verified :>


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#14 2006-04-14 06:42:20

maxie
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 84

Re: Some issues

I have just protected the Main Page, after vandalism... I think it should stay like this.

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#15 2006-04-14 07:06:45

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Some issues

Wow, I just missed it by mere minutes...

I agree, besides people can always ask for changes or temporarily unprotect it if they have the rights..


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#16 2006-09-17 04:13:30

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Some issues

The first 50 registered users appear to be spam bots mustering for an attack ...


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#17 2006-09-18 06:27:12

maxie
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 84

Re: Some issues

The first 50 registered users appear to be spam bots mustering for an attack ...

No, all those bots have already been banned. They are still shown on the Users page, but are banned.

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#18 2006-09-21 18:20:28

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Some issues

You guys are awesome, I dunno how you do it. If you think of other spam blocking additions I can do, let me know.


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

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#19 2007-01-03 08:16:56

C M Edwards
Member
From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Some issues

Is anyone else having problems seeing equations and math objects on the Wiki?   :?:


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#20 2007-01-03 08:26:13

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Some issues

I don't

Firefox; mac OSX.3


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#21 2007-01-03 11:20:09

C M Edwards
Member
From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Some issues

I don't

Firefox; mac OSX.3

Browser Settings.   :oops:


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#22 2007-01-03 12:52:26

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Some issues

Heehee.

all is well that ends well.


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#23 2007-12-15 10:38:19

JoshNH4H
Member
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,526
Website

Re: Some issues

As for the martian vs marsian issue, if it is an issue, I would vote neither, and say Marsan.  If it's an issue at all.  For metric vs imperial, maybe metric is preferred, but imperial is second best?


-Josh

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