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#101 2018-07-27 21:12:41

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,490

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Fussion reactions create and expanding electromagnetic field inside the chamber where the reaction takes place and the superconducting magnetics are expelling or in this case containing the expansion energy within or compressing it inward.
This is what is called torriod coils and they will appear to be over lapping so as to keep energy from leaking by them.

tokamak-wikipedia-800x450.jpg

Fusion-2.jpg

over lapping field are used....

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#102 2018-08-09 18:28:23

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

The megosphere that is reshaped by the solar winds
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/re … on-on-mars
plume_cartoon_2.jpg

Of course radition suit protection while in the open dome with breathable atmosphere
https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comme … s_it_work/

Top of dome atmosphere would be more like the layers of earth with ozone at the top with gas mix as it fills the remaining
https://space.stackexchange.com/questio … lt-on-mars

But what if the glass frame had the magnetic coil loops within them to form small field grids that would project above each window toward the sky...

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#103 2018-08-11 19:56:42

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

We have guessed at how the earth does it but we are not a 100% sure but we can measure it and learn from it and other planets to maybe figure it out.
Satellite measurements of the Earth's magnetosphere promise better space weather forecasts

Earth is constantly being hammered by charged particles emitted by the Sun that have enough power to make life on Earth almost impossible. We survive because Earth's magnetic field traps and deflects these particles, preventing the vast majority of them from ever reaching the planet's surface.

The trapped particles bounce back and forth between the North and South poles in complex, ever-changing patterns that are also influenced by equally intricate and shifting electric fields

wave-particle-interaction-earth-inner-magnetosphere-explored-erg-satellite-hg.jpg

Looks something like the above reactor fields....

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#104 2018-08-12 11:47:57

Void
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Hi Spacenut!

I will try to play nice.
Well, I am aware of notions of artificial planetary magnetic fields, and the hoped results.
I also find that I have some very dark notions of the productive output from the efforts.
But….:) we can consider some alternatives which may overlap, and also attempt to include as much as possible the various "Spit Balls" that are being contemplated to be cast at the wall of Mars.  We can hope some can stick, we can hope that with a master shell of plans we can foster the sticking, and the better possibility of success.

……

Assuming that you might allow me to operate in pompous mode, here I go.

My own current notions think that we could accommodate both the SpaceX and the Gateway and LOP-G peoples and indeed others that may demonstrate actual movement to Mars, and hope to integrate it all.  Not guarantee, just try, try again.

I will suppose that SpaceX might pull it off.  I would rather support their try than oppose it.  I would hope that others would stand up and hold them steady for the effort.  Win or loose, the matter will be settled.  The planet successfully settled or not.  We take chances some times. 

But a magnetic field for Mars?  I understand to a degree the idea of a singular field.  Perhaps in L1-Mars?  Well, who is going to pay for that and what will it get who?

Of the gasses willing to leave Mars, Hydrogen being the most unfaithful to Mars.
Isotopes of Hydrogen suggest quite a historical loss of Hydrogen.
I think it is reasonable for me to suppose that the loss of Carbon and Oxygen might be lower.  But then where are those items?
My argument of an atmosphere going underground seems reasonably reasonable (To me), but then what about Argon?  Can we put that underground somehow?  Where is it?  Gone with the solar wind, or is there a way for it to accumulate elsewhere?  Unsure absolutely.

So, we are also unsure how the humans will act and we are unsure about the nature of Mars, we may consider where our relatively assured strengths may occur. We hope....

So, I choose to accommodate, whatever tries are tried.   I also support orbital space habitats with synthetic gravitation and in part protection from radiation by habitat magnetic fields.  Each then having a magnetic field for selfish interests of personal protection still being a part of a greater protective shield around the planets, Mars and/or Venus.

From each planet available to orbit are Nitrogen and Oxygen and other things.  From some sources at first, the Moon, Asteroids, and even Mercury I at first propose heavier materials.  Eventually heavy materials from the surfaces of Venus and Mars as well.


The orbital habitats around Mars being protected from volatile losses by a collective magnetic field.  An interaction with each habitat with each other, and also the fossil magnetic fields of Mars.  And yes people on Mars if it seems reasonable and moral.  Yet connected to a whole solar community.

The magnetic community around Mars quite complex in their magnetic interactions.  Not as simple as a rotor/stator arrangement.


Done.

Last edited by Void (2018-08-13 11:51:42)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#105 2019-05-23 20:04:27

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Some has indicated that superconductor would be how one might get it done. Scientists break record for highest-temperature superconductor

https://nationalmaglab.org/news-events/ … ng-promise

An out stretched wire is not a coil and will have near no field strength....

https://futurism.com/superconducting-ma … rld-record

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#106 2019-11-04 17:11:18

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

knightdepaix wrote:

https://www.space.dtu.dk/english/Resear … lar%20wind "shows that a stronger solar wind mainly accelerates particles already escaping the planet's gravity, but does not increase the ion escape rate. Contrary to previous assumptions, the induced magnetosphere is also shown to protect the bulk of the Martian ionosphere from solar wind energy transfer."

This sort of means that we should be able to reinforce the field to keep the air from escaping....

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#107 2019-11-24 16:38:48

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

we saw from maven the distortion of the magnetic field of mars as a comet passed by and now we have heard the sounds of earths...
Hear the Earth’s magnetic field sing as it is bombarded by a solar storm

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#108 2019-12-05 04:15:03

qraal
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From: Brisbane, Australia
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Posts: 63

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Guys, the loss rate in present conditions has been measured. It's even been extrapolated back to past aeons when the Sun's output was much higher. Guess what? The loss is minimal, compared to what a terraformed Mars would need, to be terraformed. And that's the cumulative losses over 4 billion years - longer than we can reasonably hope for Earth to remain habitable, let alone Mars.

If we give Mars an atmosphere then it doesn't need a magnetic field to retain it for humanly reasonable timeframes (~1 gigayear). The magnetic field to deflect the high energy Solar particle events from reaching the surface, before we terraform it, then that'd be a good idea.

But life on Earth has weathered no Magnetic Field on Earth before. Hell, the most recent magnetic reversal (lasted ~440 years) was just 41,400 years ago - the Laschamp Event. Life on Earth didn't drop dead just because the magnetic field dropped to nearly zero (~5 %) for a while. The main protection against particles from space is the atmosphere itself - all 10 tons per square metre of it.

Last edited by qraal (2019-12-05 04:18:17)

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#109 2019-12-05 07:07:18

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,376

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Agreed again! People get hysterical about these atmospheric losses but they are happening over a very long period of time. We can afford to be relaxed about them.

I think, realistically we might be better advised to think in terms of maybe surface level particle deflection protection.

qraal wrote:

Guys, the loss rate in present conditions has been measured. It's even been extrapolated back to past aeons when the Sun's output was much higher. Guess what? The loss is minimal, compared to what a terraformed Mars would need, to be terraformed. And that's the cumulative losses over 4 billion years - longer than we can reasonably hope for Earth to remain habitable, let alone Mars.

If we give Mars an atmosphere then it doesn't need a magnetic field to retain it for humanly reasonable timeframes (~1 gigayear). The magnetic field to deflect the high energy Solar particle events from reaching the surface, before we terraform it, then that'd be a good idea.

But life on Earth has weathered no Magnetic Field on Earth before. Hell, the most recent magnetic reversal (lasted ~440 years) was just 41,400 years ago - the Laschamp Event. Life on Earth didn't drop dead just because the magnetic field dropped to nearly zero (~5 %) for a while. The main protection against particles from space is the atmosphere itself - all 10 tons per square metre of it.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#110 2019-12-05 17:15:38

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Sure you can fatten uo a co2 atmospher but you still can not breath it and since oxygen once freed up is going to leak off faster than co2 currently does. A magnetic field would create the plasma field to help retain more of it.

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#111 2019-12-16 02:58:53

qraal
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From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2008-01-02
Posts: 63

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

SpaceNut wrote:

Sure you can fatten uo a co2 atmospher but you still can not breath it and since oxygen once freed up is going to leak off faster than co2 currently does. A magnetic field would create the plasma field to help retain more of it.

The loss rate is *minimal*. As in, takes aeons to be substantial. Both Venus and Mars are mostly protected from the Solar Wind by the induced ionosphere fields on both planets.

However, an artificial field might help protect people on Mars from Solar storms. That's a good thing. But nothing to do with stopping atmosphere from blowing away.

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#112 2019-12-16 21:41:13

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

The reason we are losing the air on mars ios the ionosphere is not generating enough field to keep the lose rate down as the atmosphere expands. Electric currents induced in the ionosphere generate magnetic fields (ionospheric dynamo region). Such a field is always generated near where the atmosphere is closest to the Sun, causing daily alterations that can deflect surface magnetic fields by as much as one degree. Of which a stronger reaction to the increased magnetic field from below. When the field direction is the same we are able to build up against a lose of air due to the solar winds which are making the ionization possible in the upper atmospher.

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